No touching the rudders for jets, E2 andC2 guys do. You just make constant right AOB corrections, depending if the winds are natural and the ship is just sitting or if the ship is making its own winds. I’d have to ask my Tomcat buddies if they touched the rudders on approach but I highly doubt it,

Gee! "Spose you wuz a gay, black, Jewish, female, Native American disabled war veteran? Would you still be qualified?

Thanks.

So finding herself over corrected to the right at that approximate distance, correct action would be full power, straight ahead and go around?

She should have leveled wings and broke the high AOA, raised gear and climbed straight ahead. Using AB on only one motor while dirty can get you in real trouble if not done perfectly.

Yep.  Perhaps below mediocre.... in less PC years she would have been slotted to C-2s.  Or to Aviation Maintenance.

I hear ya but kick the rudder like that on a pull out?  She was way behind the curve.

Lots of folks, numerous times.

Most recent: How hard is it to make COL?

Why are the LSOs telling her to add power? Or was it specifically the afterburner use that screwed her?

If she had leveled wings, raised gear, and added thrust gradually could she have recovered?

This. Had she been male, she would have washed out of the flight program.  Because at that time, there were not enough female pilots, (fuck you Pat Schroeder),  those females who did not qualify were pushed through.

I spent 5+ months at Ranger school. 3 Recycles, all for different reasons. Some bad luck, some lack of preparation, some fuckups. At that time, the majority of the students recycled at some point. That could have changed.

I agree with your point. There is 0% chance those girls didn't get special treatment. If you have women in the military, they will get special treatment. It happens in 100% of cases. Look at the different PT test, different uniforms... The list goes on and on and on. It starts on day one and never stops. All of these people who say "as long as they meet the same standard" are completely fucking clueless. They never have had the same standard, and never will.

Except said female had been fucking up her entire career and only got a pass because she was female .

I met the guy who recovered her. He was a deep sub pilot.

They were telling her to add power because it was visually onbvious the jet was on the wrong side of the power curve. Max AB on one motor has to be countered by full rudder to keep from departing. For instance above 14 degrees dirty in the Superhornet will get you in trouble. The motors in the Tomcat are way more powerful and further apart. The LSOs should’ve also waved her off earlier, at the overshoot.

Which was why I mentioned Holly Graf way back on Page 1. If Graf had been male, she would have been shitcanned long before she was. But she was a woman, juiced in by connections, made a rising star by TPTB, and got a free pass her entire career until the Navy simply had no choice but to act. Putting Hultgreen in a Tomcat cockpit was just the same mentality and this time it got someone killed.

First command was wave-off, or missed approach. Power would be required since you'd be in a descent and wave-offs should never turn into bolters

Asymmetric thrust is what it is, regardless of AB usage or not. In that short amount of time, I'm not even sure the AB would have spooled up. Jet engines are not instant response. It was a fatal mistake though, given the AOA and compressor stall.

Had she done what you said, she likely would have recovered. I say likely because it would depend on when she did it. Too far in, she'd be dealing with a compressor stall from over-rudder left on the way in. However, you're a lot better off with neutral rudder and level wings if that happens. Given altitude, speed, and the underpowered 30's...It's a maybe if she did everything else right. The bright side is that she'd eject in the proper orientation.

SJW bureaucracy; whoever pushes for unqualified advancement is guilty of killing her.
She may have been better suited to fly CODs or P-3s; it's still flying.

See the same thing going on in civvy life.

Regardless,
RIP Ms. Hultgreen  

The sad thing is, I doubt anything changed politically to prevent future deaths.  On the bright side, technology appears to be making naval aviation a lot safer than it used to be with demanding jets like the F-14A.

Good post.

Very sad.

Must have been creepy seeing her still strapped in her seat sitting in 3,700ft of water.

Men are good cookie bakers so it follows that women are good .....fill in the blank..

I had the same thought. Must've looked fucking awful.

Holy shit!. I'm not a zipper suited Sun God by any stretch of the imagination.  Just some guy with seat time and a 152, 182, and at 210 Cessnas. And a shit ton of shit ton time playing video games like Sky King. But Ho Lee fuk! how could she not know that she was fucking up at least a half-dozen different things at once? How many air speed indicators are screaming at her the last 10 seconds?  Shit..... What an idiot. Probably wasn't even qualify to drive a car yet here she is flying a fighter jet.

"PART OF THE PROBLEM" being the key phrase.  

Think about your first question and then look at my screen name.
The F-14 with the TF30 was a pile of shit.
Well known fact.
Plenty of other F-14 pilots crashed F-14's and killed themselves because of that shitty engine.
You think that Hultgreen was good looking?  

The best female captains I've flown with hate "girl pilots".

Pilots fuck up.
Ranger 12 comes to mind.

'Terrible' F14 Engine Criticized by Lehman

July 19, 1984

Navy Secretary John F. Lehman Jr. charged yesterday that the jet engines used in the $20 million F14 Tomcat fighters since 1971 are so "terrible" that they have caused 24 accidents, including one last weekend in the Arabian Sea.

Capt. Lee Tillotson, the Navy's F14 program coordinator and a former wing commander on the USS Enterprise, also said, "I don't think there's any question" that the problem engine creates a greater risk for pilots in combat because of "a very high probability of engine stalling."

"From the very start you essentially teach the pilots to fly the engine as a priority over flying the airplane," Tillotson said in an interview. "The pilot has to be very aware of what he does with the throttle at all times."

Although problems with the $2.5 million TF30 engine, built by the Pratt & Whitney division of United Technologies Corp., have been recognized almost since the first F14s were built, Lehman, a pilot, raised the issue again with an unusually strident statement before a closed congressional hearing.

The TF30 engine "in the F14 is probably the worst engine-airplane mismatch we have had in many years. The TF30 engine is just a terrible engine and has accounted for 28.2 percent of all F14 crashes," Lehman told a House Appropriations subcommittee last spring in testimony that was just released.

"The sooner we are out of it, the happier I will be," Lehman added. "I guess the good news is that all the Iranian F14s have the TF30, too."

The Navy has bought 1,418 TF30 engines for its 410 twin-engine F14s, which usually are flown from aircraft carriers. Lehman told the House subcommittee that the Navy was so distressed at the engines' performance that it was considering replacing the existing engines with a new model made by General Electric Co.

In an interview yesterday, however, the secretary said TF30s will be replaced only as they wear out, adding that "one of the problems with the TF30 is that it wears out so fast." The Navy is still buying the TF30 because the GE engine won't be available until 1987, Lehman said.

Phillip Giaramita, a Pratt & Whitney spokesman in Hartford, Conn., defended the engine yesterday, saying, "We are expecting that Pratt & Whitney engines will power some F14s right up to the year 2000."

The TF30 initially was intended as an "interim" engine for only the first 25 F14s, but because of budget cuts in the 1970s the Navy was forced to scrap plans for a new engine specifically tailored for the F14, Lehman said.

Pratt & Whitney has been trying to fix some of the engine's more egregious problems, Giaramita said, and "our records show that since '81 there have been 17 F14s lost but only one was engine-caused."

Lehman responded, "We're a little disappointed that they didn't do that 10 years ago, but better late than never . . . . The problem should not be laid solely at the contractor's doorstep. The engine was designed for a different airplane."

The Navy plans to buy 300 additional F14s later in the decade, but those will be powered by GE's F110 engine. The decision to use the GE model, which is based on the company's B1 bomber engine, was announced by the Navy in February at the end of what was dubbed the Great Engine War between GE and Pratt & Whitney.

The F14 is intended to provide air cover for carriers and their escorts.

"I think people have rationalized [the engine limitations] a little bit by saying that we're going to stand off and use our long-range missiles rather than get mixed up in a classic dogfight," Tillotson said. "There will be many cases in a combat situation where you're going to close eyeball to eyeball . . . . It's a major limitation."

Link

"They don't ask for your official photo to see how well you can tie a tie."

Kharn

I can't imagine the body looked pristine after hitting the water at however many MPH she did either.

Her transition to the F-14 report. She had no business flying on that carrier.

https://www.cmrlink.org/data/sites/85/CMRDocuments/CMRRPT09-0695.pdf

IIRC, a seat ejects at something like 10m/sec for like 1s upon initiation. Being that low, and orientated towards the water...

no naval aviator either but.. no jets don't crab the plane, they fly the vector of the angled deck and slightly lead it left.

not the same but indeed, losing an engine at low speed suck.... the HIGH alpha certainly doesnt make it any better

Her training records should have never been made public.

Normally I'd agree, but it really looks like the Navy went out of their way to point out any and all other factors involved that didn't blame them for pushing a female through in the name of PC and being first, who REALLY didn't need to be there. I can't blame this info for coming out.

Not sure if those who enabled her had their careers cut short (not likely), but they should have. Plenty of other competent female pilots out there, with much higher marks and competency

They also believe those are all the same thing.

Not sure what this means, the pic on your video is exactly a jet in a crab. Usually the boat is directly with the wind but left of the velocity vector is the ghost velocity vector(his VV is uncaged, a bit out of the norm) but the ghost vector is where he is going. But unlike the field, you never have to kick out the crab before touchdown, at least jets don’t.

I flew that exact maneuver at air shows. The alpha limit is much lower than what the jet is capable of exactly because of this mishap. You actually stuff the stick forward towards the ground, which is unnerving but that breaks the alpha and should let you fly away. The specs for that maneuver are built entirely around losing a motor.

Lucky jets those days are much more forgiving than those old Tomcats. Flying is now easy, fighting is another story. I will say I’ve been flying with women for a while now and they are usually ok. Rarely the best but decent. Most of them are pretty cool too.

This part is well substantiated by her instructors at several levels of her training.

Plenty of other females have not had special treatment through the training process and have legitimately earned their way into the front seat of a fighter in the USAF, USN, and USMC through their skill.

She wasn't one of them.

Why not? Serious question...

So what happened to pilot B

Yep, I was looking for the minutes from the House hearing where Lehman was talking about it but could not find them, Whenever hear about a F-14 crash my first though is "TF-30's?" from the sounds of the Hultgreen incident it probably was a eventuality of her having some sort of accident, but still no excuse for giving our service members sub-par equipment for the sake of "insert reason here".

She was a carrier qualified EA6B pilot with 18 months experience before volunteering to transition to F14s IIRC.

Kharn

Former carrier pilot here.

There are better and more complete recordings of this.

The "landing dude"/LSO/Landing Signal Officer was indeed frustrated.

Affirmative action at its finest

How is that possible?  She was still a JG.  Flight School for the jet pipeline takes almost 2 years, assuming she gets a slot the day after commissioning, and most all of that is done in classrooms or trainers.  Then she goes to type training, then the RAG.  A year after getting her wings (36 months from commissioning) she'd have been frocked to LT.

They don’t frock to LT anymore, straight promotion at four years.

This was 20 years ago

I had no idea that they ever did that, and I’ve been in almost 19.