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My argument is the Bumpstock puts us at a severe disadvantage in the gun rights argument. Bumpstocks allow you to shoot Full Auto from the shoulder, so you can actually aim and shoot.

The belt loop argument is fucking retarded, and people here LAUGH at pictures of Africans with AKMs at their hip. They laugh is because we all know, shooting from the hip is extremely inaccurate and wasteful. So saying a Bumpstock is the same as a beltloop, you are fucking dumb or being deceitful.

And people here were amazed and shocked that Bumpstocks were given the stamp of approval.

I think Bumpstocks will do far more harm to our cause. You have a million videos of idiot YouTubers with Bumpstocks, and the public sees, for all practical purposes is a work around for the NFA Machine Gun Ban. Bumpstocks are a huge anchor being unnecessarily placed on the 2A argument.

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Any person attempting to divide gun owners is a tool of the left.

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Some people can stay calm in a crisis while others do not have the ability

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There is a place for people like MAC. He does put pressure on the NRA to keep their goal in focus. They just seem to be not on our side because they do know how to play the political arena better than us.

I’m more like MAC. I’d rather throw blows than play some bullshit 4D chess where it seems like the NRA is working against us more than for. I still however think there is no way they would be against gun owners rights. We pay their bills and salary’s. With no guns come no membership fee, no donations, no need for the NRA. So why do people think they would screw us over and cut their own throats. There. It that stupid.

I think Trump knows he needs to appear to do something to have a chance at the 2020 election. I think he’s been told that what he has said can’t happen in the way he’s told them to do it. So it looks to the dumbasses like he’s trying to do something but in reality there is no way the ATF can ban the things he mentioned. Can’t happen. It would have to ban all semi autos to work and that isn’t going to happen. That is why MAC is so worried he sees this the same way. Under official ruling a semi auto is one pull for one round. We all know this. That why bumpstocks have always been found legal. Now they can’t change that without congressional approval no Trump memo can do this.

People need to chill out. You think Trump hasn’t been told what he’s saying in the memo can’t work. He has but he’s doing it to appear to do something.

MAC needs to keep putting pressure on the NRA but he also needs to keep it in check before he gets labeled a rabid gun owner who is “dangerous” and shouldn’t own guns. We need to keep some talk between us you know what I mean.

We also don’t need to fight amongst ourselves. Every family has parts that make a whole. Just like we have mAC we have the NRA and we have the Fudds.

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I should have wrote it crayon.

The Memo, I will break it down:

Obama already said they were OK. I asked what a machine gun laws were.

100,000 commented on the last ATF posting. Completely review the comments posted, it will take a while, and then come up with something about banning devices that turn legal guns into machineguns (under the clarification on the definition you already provided- existing law), then post it online for a month so now 1,000,000 will comment on it.

This will take a while, but so what. Review the 1,000,000 comments after the 1-month comment period.

Post this online to shut the media up.

Do you understand it yet?

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I should have wrote it crayon.

SNIP

Do you understand it yet?

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To be perfectly clear, I whole heartedly agree with his principles on this.  We should not give an inch in this fight.

However, I sincerely believe his whole "Fuck Trump/Fuck the NRA" shtick is hurting more than it's helping.

I do think that Trump is once again playing 4D chess, eating up the prime time bandwidth with talk of bump stock not-a-ban memos and mental health instead of letting them control the narrative with talk of AWB 2.0, mag bans, universal background checks, etc.  
Remember Obama's "gun control" EOs?  41P/F ended up backfiring and actually making NFA transfers easier by eliminating the CLEO approval (although it made it harder on trusts, LLCs, etc.).  The point is, Trumo sending DoJ a memo on a novelty item means precisely nothing without legislation.

In all likelihood, we will look up in a month and be back to business as usual.

Now if you read some of the comments on MAC's FB page and YouTube feed, there are a lot of people pledging not to vote or vote against Trump in 2020.  This is a mistake.  Even if we end up in the worst possible scenario (a bump stock ban) it pales in comparison to the language included in DiFi's 2013 Assault Weapons Ban that died in the Senate.  If the Democrats win back power, I don't think it will be long until they push for FAR more punitive laws and regulations.

You also have to take into consideration the non-gun issues.  I for one don't enjoy watching western culture get fucked by the long brown dick of the third world.  If MAC continues his anti Trump shilling,  he very well may contribute to forces FAR worse than a stupid bump stock ban.

MAC's heart is in the right place, but he needs a serious come-to-Jesus talk.

Screen caps of posts:

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/305821/Screenshot_2018-02-21-10-58-44-459537.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/305821/Screenshot_2018-02-21-10-59-23-459538.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/305821/Screenshot_2018-02-21-10-59-32-459539.JPG

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No, you highlighted passes that feed your delusions while ignoring the rest.

The funniest thing is the liberals are going apeshit because they can see through the memo, but you can't.

Actually, thats not funny. Its sad.

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is this the hill you want to die on?

the long game is to get enough people owning MSRs is that they will become unbannable.   there will be some losses along the way.  do you want to throw down the gauntlet in 2018 over bump stocks or see if we can make it past the next decade.

if you can influence the process you can make sure its as narrow a ruling as possible, otherwise the Dems will come up with a 24lb trigger solution.

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Any person attempting to divide gun owners is a tool of the left.

Without the NRA, Clinton would be Prez and she would be calling for AWB's, magazine bans, etc.

The most important thing is getting conservative judges appointed.  The Democrats will get in power again, and we need to have a firewall against the crappy laws they will try to pass.

Nevertrumpers and anti-NRA folks don't seem to grasp this issue.

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I can read.  ATF has been directed to find bump stocks are machineguns.

That will probably be the extent of new bans and regulations.  It's pretty clear ATF has been given marching orders to change their position on bump stocks.

Unfortunately the courts aren't very pro 2A, so we aren't highly likely to get the ban overturned.

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Lots of supposed "pro-gun" people are coming out trying to weaken the NRA.  Many post on this site.  Some of those same people almost seem giddy about the idea of some gun control being passed.

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I'll highlight the important parts.

MEMORANDUM FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

SUBJECT:

Application of the Definition of Machinegun to "Bump Fire" Stocks and Other Similar Devices

After the deadly mass murder in Las Vegas, Nevada, on October 1, 2017, I asked my Administration to fully review how the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives regulates bump fire stocks and similar devices.

Although the Obama Administration repeatedly concluded that particular bump stock type devices were lawful to purchase and possess, I sought further clarification of the law restricting fully automatic machineguns.

Accordingly, following established legal protocols, the Department of Justice started the process of promulgating a Federal regulation interpreting the definition of "machinegun" under Federal law to clarify whether certain bump stock type devices should be illegal. The Advanced Notice of Proposed Rulemaking was published in the Federal Register on December 26, 2017. Public comment concluded on January 25, 2018, with the Department of Justice receiving over 100,000 comments.

Today, I am directing the Department of Justice to dedicate all available resources to complete the review of the comments received, and, as expeditiously as possible, to propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.

Although I desire swift and decisive action, I remain committed to the rule of law and to the procedures the law prescribes. Doing this the right way will ensure that the resulting regulation is workable and effective and leaves no loopholes for criminals to exploit. I would ask that you keep me regularly apprised of your progress.

You are authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.

DONALD J. TRUMP

Important parts in red.  He considers bumpstocks to be machineguns under the law.  Now the ATF is to support that position.  Don't believe if you don't want.  Give it a month or two and ATF will post their new interpretation for comment.

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I don't MAC is necessarily wrong.

I'll see how this shakes out, but I'm serious about not supporting people who turn tail at the first sign of political turmoil.

If this ends with a bumpstock ban, due to Trump's actions, I'm sitting 2020 out. I don't care WHAT anyone says/thinks. I've been holding my nose for decades. I'm weary of it. I'm not going to do it anymore.

If the right/GoP is serious about earning my vote, they better do some serious self-examination. Self-examination they should be doing, after the rise of Trump, anyways.

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1. Application of the Definition of Machinegun to "Bump Fire" Stocks

1. OK, you got us Democrats. You guys took the moral high ground and exposed us for the murderous meat eating sexists that we truly are. We concede and will have our legal team look into the legal definition of a machinegun. We need to get to the bottom of this!!! Hmm, it says here that a machinegun is a device where a single function of the trigger causes more than one bullet to exit the muzzle end. Very interesting... Now, let's look into the murderous bump-MachineGun-stock. Weird... No matter what we do, or how hard we try, a single function of the trigger only causes one round to exit the muzzle end. Hey Sessions... Would you mind throwing a binary trigger in there and testing it again? What??? It still only releases a single bullet per function of the trigger? How can this be??? I thought you were top men??? It is with a heavy heart that I must report that a bumpstock is not a machinegun. I feel ya Pelosi... I'm tearing up too Schiff. I just can't do anything about it...
2. I sought further clarification of the law restricting fully automatic machineguns.

1. Let's dig into this!!! For America!!! Sessions, please review all of the laws that restrict machineguns!!! After you are finished, please clarify what these restrictions comprise of and what the effects of said restrictions are to these machines, that are also guns. Can we also shed some light as to which restrictions, restrict which machineguns and how those machineguns restricted are in fact affected by restricting them? Also, please provide a report comparing and contrasting fully automatic machineguns vs. automatic machineguns and whether or not restrictions restricting fully automatic machineguns are equally levied on guns so deemed to be only automatic machineguns.
3. Today, I am directing the Department of Justice to

1. propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.

1. Democrats... I'm listening to you!!! I decree that any device that turns any legal weapon into a machingun is very very bad, terrible in fact. Pelosi, I have to hand it to you. You got your side to dig in and we on the right will have to concede on this very important point. From this day forth, it is hereby illegal to add an illegal device that would convert a legal weapon into a machinegun.
2. ensure that the resulting regulation is workable and effective and leaves no loopholes for criminals to exploit.

1. Just so you don't think we are trying to get one over on you, we are going to have our top men, verify that an evil machinegun is a device whereby one function of the trigger causes more than one bullet to exit the muzzle. We will print posters, run public announcements, whatever it takes. Rest assured, we aren't going to hide behind hazy rhetoric. You have spoken, your voices rang across America and we are going to make it right!!!!

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I dunno how we went from having high hopes with suppressors and reciprocity to having this mess.  

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I hope your right Pfran.  But this is the New Yorker without a big gun background.  He was pro AWB in the 90's.  He just got the NRA's blessing and encouragement to have the ATF determine bumpstocks are machineguns.  So I'm not real optimistic right now.

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This.

MAC is being a fucking idiot right now.

Let's say he succeeds and Trump gets the axe in a couple years. What happens? Likely we would be staring at the very real chance that GENUINE "Turn them all in" legislation gets passed and with a razor thin SCOTUS lead, it has a decent chance of getting "found" Constitutional.

Now let's say Trump gets 6 more years. Kennedy retires, Ginsberg might finally die. Conservatives get TWO more amazing justices like Gorsuch onto the SCOTUS. The liberal agenda is FUCKING DEAD for a generation. The rights we see in the Constitution are more or less safe, and even if the Democrats hold all the keys to power again, all their nutball ideas are stricken down.

On a lot of things MAC makes a lot of sense, right now, he is nothing but a fucking tool of the Liberal Democrats.

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Think about this...

Do you think that for one second, Trump doesn't know how important America's gun community is to him? It's practically cliche'... Trump = Fat, MAGA hat wearing, bearded 45 year old driving a jacked up Z71 with AR15s in the rear window gun rack.

Don Jr. even took him aside a day ago and told him to tread lightly on the gun thing.

He 100% knows what is going on. Furthermore, he knows that this issue is much more important to the 2A people than the rest of the general population thinks.

Now, more than ever in our lives, it is time to stick by our CiC.

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Will you stick up for this play if the ATF declares bump stocks machineguns?

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Trump is our only option for decent supreme court picks. So he will still get my vote even if he bans bump stocks. But I've got no issue with criticizing bad policy.

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I'm with Tim.

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Trump is our only option for decent supreme court picks. So he will still get my vote even if he bans bump stocks. But I've got no issue with criticizing bad policy.

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Some people can stay calm in a crisis while others do not have the ability

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I reupped with  the NRA today. Mac needs to unbunch his panties.

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I have followed and enjoyed MAC for a LONG time, since he started probably.  Yesterday he said anyone that still supports the NRA is a traitor.  I still support the NRA, fuck that guy.

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Any person attempting to divide gun owners is a tool of the left.

Without the NRA, Clinton would be Prez and she would be calling for AWB's, magazine bans, etc.

The most important thing is getting conservative judges appointed.  The Democrats will get in power again, and we need to have a firewall against the crappy laws they will try to pass.

Nevertrumpers and anti-NRA folks don't seem to grasp this issue.

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Reading Trump's mind, so to speak, his focus will be on stepping up security on schools, re-opening mental health facilities, and banning bump stocks.

The last one being a concession to the gun grabbers.

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So to summarize:

1. The bump stock ban is ludicrous
2. Another AWB would be pointless and outrageous
3. MAC is a tool/raving lunatic

Got it.

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I remember when Trump first got elected. MAC was all preaching about how the NFA repeal was a SURE THING. And that ohhhhhh ahhhhhh, Republicans own the whole govt.

And now reality smacked him in the face, and he wants to jump like a rat from a sinking ship, all of a sudden. LOL.