Someone school me on backfeeding or pig tailing a generator back into the house. - Page 13

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Posted: 9/17/2017 4:10:25 PM EDT

[#1]

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We are talking 2 different things here. An ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) is part of an automatic standby system. This entire thread has been about a manual transfer system using a portable generator.

There are ways to rework his outside disconnect for either an auto or manual transfer system. But none of them are as easy as installing an interlock like the gentlemen was hoping was possible.

If it were my house, I would pull off that whole disconnect and install one of these: https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-TTH2003DR/p10575.html

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Why not just install an ats next to the main breaker? Intercept the load wiring off the main breaker and pull new wire to the indoor panel. That would seem easier than the 10 circuit device.

We are talking 2 different things here. An ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) is part of an automatic standby system. This entire thread has been about a manual transfer system using a portable generator.

There are ways to rework his outside disconnect for either an auto or manual transfer system. But none of them are as easy as installing an interlock like the gentlemen was hoping was possible.

If it were my house, I would pull off that whole disconnect and install one of these: https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-TTH2003DR/p10575.html

I know what an ats is, my company makes them

. We also make them with a quick connect for roll up generators and sell then by the thousands to cell site owners. We may a residential one as well but it doesn't have the quick connect, but those are easy enough to add.

From a labor standpoint it would seem easier to cut one in, even if it were a manual one because he can do so without pulling the meter. The biggest downside I see to installing any interlock for the DIY guy is making the system safe to work on. Pulling the meter is a hassle around here. I wish I had a meter load side disconnect on my house.

Posted: 9/17/2017 4:14:23 PM EDT

[#2]

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There were more than one report that talked about this in the SF a few years ago. They mentioned that the O'Bummer EPA was coming down hard on NG to replace any pump stations that needed replacing with electric ones. Sorry I don't have specifics. You might want to ask in the SF. I believe there was at least one person that was in the NG pipeline business there.

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I've heard the same thing but in some cases they were installing NG gens on those sites with ATS's to keep the sites up. I was supplying some of those ats's.

Posted: 9/17/2017 4:26:38 PM EDT

[#3]

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ss2nv, your setup isn't "pretty safe", it's plain old safe. It's the way you are supposed to do it.

The only change I would have made is to install a 120/240v inlet. Right now you have a 120v generator but installing the 4 prong inlet would work both with your current setup and any new generator you buy or borrow. Either way it's fine, though.

Also, you can install a jumper to get the other half of your house working with the generator. It's easy to do if you're interested.

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I appreciate the positive feedback. Yeah, I thought about those things after the fact, but once I saw what all was getting power during my testing of it, I decided it wasn't that big of a deal. The only thing that I'm going without currently is the main air conditioner, which as you know, would require a total re-do of what I have going on. I guess if I get to that point of really wanting whole house air conditioning during an outage, I would just pony up for a permanent nat gas Kohler backup rig with ATS.

Posted: 9/17/2017 4:33:42 PM EDT

[#4]

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Here's how I did mine:

Removed the 30 amp 220 dryer outlet. I don't need it, as my dryer is gas. Installed J-box over it and ran conduit out to my garage.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/92450/photo_1__2_-309744.JPG

Ran the conduit into the back of the generator inlet box. Wired from the dryer outlet location using #10 awg. Also, only wired one of the hot legs, powering only half of my panel, which is fine, as I got lucky and most things that I want to power ended up on the correct half.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/92450/photo_2__3_-309748.JPG
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/92450/photo_3__2_-309756.JPG

Then went to HD and bought 14 ft or so of #10 awg SOOW and the correct L5-30 male/female ends. I run the EU3000is just inside the threshold of the garage with a large construction fan behind it to push exhaust away from the house. I use CO detectors in multiple places in the house as well.

I use a manual sliding interlock at the breaker panel, to keep the main off while using the now repurposed 30 amp dryer breaker. I feel like my setup is pretty safe as the generator is only rated for 25 amps max (23.3 amps continuous) and I am only using it for the refrigerator, deep freeze, lights, fans, etc. I will probably buy one of those small portable AC units on wheels to keep the master bedroom cool, though.

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Thanks...

you just gave me a hell of an idea as I swapped out my electric cooktop for gas last year. Out of curiosity why did you only connect 1 leg?

ETA: What type of interlock did you use? My unused breakers are way down in the panel, I may be able to move some around.

Posted: 9/17/2017 7:29:35 PM EDT

[#5]

How big a generator would I need to run a 16 SEER 5 ton HVAC unit?

Posted: 9/17/2017 7:35:43 PM EDT

[#6]

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How big a generator would I need to run a 16 SEER 5 ton HVAC unit?

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Well, according to the HVAC guy who posted his ampprobe 3 times, that should run around 16 amps

Posted: 9/17/2017 7:46:40 PM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:
Well, according to the HVAC guy who posted his ampprobe 3 times, that should run around 16 amps

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Quoted:
How big a generator would I need to run a 16 SEER 5 ton HVAC unit?

Well, according to the HVAC guy who posted his ampprobe 3 times, that should run around 16 amps

I must have missed that. It seems like it would need more than 16 amps, it in on a 50 amp breaker.

Posted: 9/17/2017 7:50:32 PM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:
I must have missed that. It seems like it would need more than 16 amps, it in on a 50 amp breaker.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
How big a generator would I need to run a 16 SEER 5 ton HVAC unit?

Well, according to the HVAC guy who posted his ampprobe 3 times, that should run around 16 amps

I must have missed that. It seems like it would need more than 16 amps, it in on a 50 amp breaker.

Running amps is going to be A LOT lower than the starting amp draw.

Posted: 9/17/2017 7:55:18 PM EDT

[#9]

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Running amps is going to be A LOT lower than the starting amp draw.

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Quoted:
How big a generator would I need to run a 16 SEER 5 ton HVAC unit?

Well, according to the HVAC guy who posted his ampprobe 3 times, that should run around 16 amps

I must have missed that. It seems like it would need more than 16 amps, it in on a 50 amp breaker.

Running amps is going to be A LOT lower than the starting amp draw.

Well yeah, Getting that big compressor running takes some juice. Will it be printed on the unit somewhere? It also has an indoor blower that pushes air through a 4k sq ft house.

ETA: On the label on the outside portion of the unit it says max circuit breaker 50 amps

Min circuit amps 32.8

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:13:28 PM EDT

[#10]

60 amp and 100 amp breakers?

Attached File

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:19:35 PM EDT

[#11]

For reference:

My 4 ton GasPack is rated at 25.5 total unit amps.

Max OverCurrent Protection is 50 amp.

Should be posted on the unit.

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:21:32 PM EDT

[#12]

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Knowledge has nothing to do with it. I have a lot of knowledge of the subject, but I still know that I might make a mistake in the heat of the moment of a crisis. That's why I only use proper transfer equipment in my own home.

If someone is extremely knowledgeable of firearms, does that mean that he can forgo safety practices? All of the firearm knowledge in the world won't prevent a basic mistake being made, and that's why he doesn't put himself into the position where a mistake could take a life.

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Risk vs Reward
With a bad situation, the ability to make power could save life...keep insulin cold, keep O2 concentrator running, etc.

Like I said, there are different levels of backfeeding...some NEC compliant some not. Having the knowledge and judgement to make an informed choice is what life is about.

Good luck

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:22:47 PM EDT

[#13]

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60 amp and 100 amp breakers?

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/97740/IMG_2640-310083.JPG

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That just means they ran (hopefully) 4 gauge copper wire on the 100 amp circuit (heating element), and 6 gauge copper wire on the 60 amp circuit (condensing unit).

For a modern 5 ton condensing unit today, they typically all are rated for less than 40 amps min ampacity (minimum wire/circuit size), and will have a max breaker size specified.

What most likely happened is that your AC installer just connected the whip to your 5 ton unit, and called it a day, on the 60 amp circuit. The breaker protects the wiring. The problem is.... that the appliance wants a max breaker size of 50amps, so it will trip because any time that pulls more than that, something is bad wrong. Yours isnt not installed in accordance with your manufacturer specs.

If the installer is a hack, and installed new whips that aren't using the correct wire for the minimum ampacity rating from the condensing unit, you have a potential fire hazard.

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:26:06 PM EDT

[#14]

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It's certainly not ideal but as long as you turn off the main breaker you won't be back feeding the line.

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Or just pull your meter like we all did during the last big ice storm

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:29:22 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
That just means they ran (hopefully) 4 gauge copper wire on the 100 amp circuit, and 6 gauge copper wire on the 60 amp circuit.

For a modern 5 ton unit today, they typically all are rated for less than 40 amps min circuit size, and will have a max breaker size. So if the installer used a max breaker size of 50 amps, he would use 6 gauge wire.

What most likely happened is that your AC installed just connected the whip to your 5 ton unit, and called it a day. If that is connected to the 100amp breaker, the breaker protects the wiring. The problem is.... that the appliance wants a max breaker size of 50amps, so it will trip because any time that pulls more than that, something is bad wrong.

If the installer is a hack, and installed new whips that aren't using 100 amp/60 amp rated wire, you have a potential fire hazard.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
60 amp and 100 amp breakers?

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/97740/IMG_2640-310083.JPG

That just means they ran (hopefully) 4 gauge copper wire on the 100 amp circuit, and 6 gauge copper wire on the 60 amp circuit.

For a modern 5 ton unit today, they typically all are rated for less than 40 amps min circuit size, and will have a max breaker size. So if the installer used a max breaker size of 50 amps, he would use 6 gauge wire.

What most likely happened is that your AC installed just connected the whip to your 5 ton unit, and called it a day. If that is connected to the 100amp breaker, the breaker protects the wiring. The problem is.... that the appliance wants a max breaker size of 50amps, so it will trip because any time that pulls more than that, something is bad wrong.

If the installer is a hack, and installed new whips that aren't using 100 amp/60 amp rated wire, you have a potential fire hazard.

This house used to have a bank of solar panels on the roof and a crazy piping system under the house with 2 electric water heaters and wire everywhere. I guess I need to follow all these circuits and find out if they are being used or need to be removed.

We uncovered a huge cement water storage tank while excavating for a new deck.

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:32:39 PM EDT

[#16]

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This house used to have a bank of solar panels on the roof and a crazy piping system under the house with 2 electric water heaters and wire everywhere. I guess I need to follow all these circuits and find out if they are being used or need to be removed.

We uncovered a huge cement water storage tank while excavating for a new deck.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
60 amp and 100 amp breakers?

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/97740/IMG_2640-310083.JPG

That just means they ran (hopefully) 4 gauge copper wire on the 100 amp circuit, and 6 gauge copper wire on the 60 amp circuit.

For a modern 5 ton unit today, they typically all are rated for less than 40 amps min circuit size, and will have a max breaker size. So if the installer used a max breaker size of 50 amps, he would use 6 gauge wire.

What most likely happened is that your AC installed just connected the whip to your 5 ton unit, and called it a day. If that is connected to the 100amp breaker, the breaker protects the wiring. The problem is.... that the appliance wants a max breaker size of 50amps, so it will trip because any time that pulls more than that, something is bad wrong.

If the installer is a hack, and installed new whips that aren't using 100 amp/60 amp rated wire, you have a potential fire hazard.

This house used to have a bank of solar panels on the roof and a crazy piping system under the house with 2 electric water heaters and wire everywhere. I guess I need to follow all these circuits and find out if they are being used or need to be removed.

We uncovered a huge cement water storage tank while excavating for a new deck.

Is that an old Zinsco panel?

http://www.ismypanelsafe.com/zinsco.aspx

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:37:59 PM EDT

[#17]

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Is that an old Zinsco panel?

http://www.ismypanelsafe.com/zinsco.aspx

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Quoted:

Quoted:
60 amp and 100 amp breakers?

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/97740/IMG_2640-310083.JPG

That just means they ran (hopefully) 4 gauge copper wire on the 100 amp circuit, and 6 gauge copper wire on the 60 amp circuit.

For a modern 5 ton unit today, they typically all are rated for less than 40 amps min circuit size, and will have a max breaker size. So if the installer used a max breaker size of 50 amps, he would use 6 gauge wire.

What most likely happened is that your AC installed just connected the whip to your 5 ton unit, and called it a day. If that is connected to the 100amp breaker, the breaker protects the wiring. The problem is.... that the appliance wants a max breaker size of 50amps, so it will trip because any time that pulls more than that, something is bad wrong.

If the installer is a hack, and installed new whips that aren't using 100 amp/60 amp rated wire, you have a potential fire hazard.

This house used to have a bank of solar panels on the roof and a crazy piping system under the house with 2 electric water heaters and wire everywhere. I guess I need to follow all these circuits and find out if they are being used or need to be removed.

We uncovered a huge cement water storage tank while excavating for a new deck.

Is that an old Zinsco panel?

http://www.ismypanelsafe.com/zinsco.aspx

It has a Sylvania label at the top. House was built in 1981

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:38:47 PM EDT

[#18]

Attached File

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:40:54 PM EDT

[#19]

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https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/97740/IMG_2646-310120.JPG

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What a weird panel.

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:43:00 PM EDT

[#20]

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It has a Sylvania label at the top. House was built in 1981

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Quoted:

Quoted:
60 amp and 100 amp breakers?

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/97740/IMG_2640-310083.JPG

That just means they ran (hopefully) 4 gauge copper wire on the 100 amp circuit, and 6 gauge copper wire on the 60 amp circuit.

For a modern 5 ton unit today, they typically all are rated for less than 40 amps min circuit size, and will have a max breaker size. So if the installer used a max breaker size of 50 amps, he would use 6 gauge wire.

What most likely happened is that your AC installed just connected the whip to your 5 ton unit, and called it a day. If that is connected to the 100amp breaker, the breaker protects the wiring. The problem is.... that the appliance wants a max breaker size of 50amps, so it will trip because any time that pulls more than that, something is bad wrong.

If the installer is a hack, and installed new whips that aren't using 100 amp/60 amp rated wire, you have a potential fire hazard.

This house used to have a bank of solar panels on the roof and a crazy piping system under the house with 2 electric water heaters and wire everywhere. I guess I need to follow all these circuits and find out if they are being used or need to be removed.

We uncovered a huge cement water storage tank while excavating for a new deck.

Is that an old Zinsco panel?

http://www.ismypanelsafe.com/zinsco.aspx

It has a Sylvania label at the top. House was built in 1981

I know from my experience with Federal Pacific.... I know that electricians often recommend replacement of FPE or Zinsco/Sylvania panels.... due to safety concerns. I don't know how serious the threat really is.

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:44:25 PM EDT

[#21]

Hi All. I could use some help steering me in the right direction(s). I have spent the last three days reading all of the very informative generator threads, one was an exception.

Regarding interlock kits;

My panel is an old Square D 100 amp panel, C1220QR (B or F, I am not sure, semi flush and not?).

Attached File

Attached File

Is there an interlock kit available for this panel? It may be too old, that would suck. I'd like to be able to safely power the panel (both legs, and no 240V appliance use is understood) with the widgets gathered in my Amazon cart, cord, inlet, possible a meter, the plug adapter for 120 to 240, etc. Looking for the last item I think (the interlock kit) so I can have one of my 3 electrical buds install them.

Something tells me in reality that panel should be replaced, but if that is the case I would probably just use extension cords directly to power a window A/C and whatever, our electrical outages are very few, far between, and short in length of time. It would be neat to be able to plug a genny in though.

Thanks in advance.

ALSO! Can anyone advise if I can get new captive screw deally majobbers that secure the cover? I don't think that cover was off for like 30 years until the previous owner installed a walk in tub, and then was on for another 10 until I went to have my shed powered, and which point they got mangled to even get the cover off. I didn't have much luck searching. If I recall they are a pin with a spring and another pin that holds the spring on, insert, turn 90 degrees, done. THANKS

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:44:41 PM EDT

[#22]

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What a weird panel.

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Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/97740/IMG_2646-310120.JPG

What a weird panel.

lol that was my first thought as well.

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:46:17 PM EDT

[#23]

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What a weird panel.

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Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/97740/IMG_2646-310120.JPG

What a weird panel.

This house was cutting edge when it was built. It was completely designed around both active and passive solar. In addition to the solar system with tanks and pumps and electric water heaters it has 5 sliding glass doors and 2 bay windows facing south.

Posted: 9/17/2017 8:47:23 PM EDT

[#24]

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Why anyone would do this rather than wire up a dedicated plug with a real interlock is beyond me.

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They're cheap and stupid.

Posted: 9/17/2017 9:56:11 PM EDT

[#25]

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It's not the first time that ABC dry chem may have been worse than the fire. I make that point in all the fire extinguisher threads, but all the fire extinguisher companies (who are even more insufferable than some of the folks in this thread) just cannot stop from pushing ABC dry chem as the universal solution to everything.

Screw Bill Clinton and the crony fakeenviro profiteers who banned Halon.

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Every commercial airliner flying today uses halon as an extinguishing agent.

Posted: 9/17/2017 10:05:39 PM EDT

[#26]

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Figured as much, glad I passed on his services.

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Everyone here does it. Make sure you kill your main so you aren't pushing anything outside.

I recommend against it though.

Posted: 9/17/2017 10:08:14 PM EDT

[#27]

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For curiosity's sake.

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All your neighbors have good power and you are still making noise and fumes.

Posted: 9/18/2017 4:46:07 PM EDT

[#28]

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How big a generator would I need to run a 16 SEER 5 ton HVAC unit?

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I'm going to guess a 12KW and likely you will have to turn off some or all of the other loads to start the compressor.

I have one each 3.5, 3 and 2 ton AC units. 3.5 ton is an 18 seer 2 speed, other 2 are 13 seer builder grade units.

I have a 21kw generator and it can run all 3 starting them as needed once I initially turn on the generator as long as we don't have the dryer or range running.

Normally when I need generator power, I turn off all breakers but the lights.

Fire up the generator , let it warm up, cycle each fridge on waiting a minute between starts, then start cycling on AC units letting each get up to speed for a few minutes.

Posted: 9/18/2017 5:26:18 PM EDT

[#29]

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Every commercial airliner flying today uses halon as an extinguishing agent.

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Quoted:

It's not the first time that ABC dry chem may have been worse than the fire. I make that point in all the fire extinguisher threads, but all the fire extinguisher companies (who are even more insufferable than some of the folks in this thread) just cannot stop from pushing ABC dry chem as the universal solution to everything.

Screw Bill Clinton and the crony fakeenviro profiteers who banned Halon.

Every commercial airliner flying today uses halon as an extinguishing agent.

Actually Halotron has been FAA approved, although it takes a 5lb extinguisher to meet the test that the 2 1/2lb Halon does.

Halon is still banned from production, what is there is just carefully maintained since 1994.

The US military has most of the world's supply in their Strategic Halon Reserve. I'm not kidding.

FE-36 isn't bad for general use, but so expensive. Novek might be interesting but no one makes a portable extinguisher with it. Nothing has the chemical action that Halon has though.

Posted: 9/18/2017 7:14:57 PM EDT

[#30]

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Actually Halotron has been FAA approved, although it takes a 5lb extinguisher to meet the test that the 2 1/2lb Halon does.

Halon is still banned from production, what is there is just carefully maintained since 1994.

The US military has most of the world's supply in their Strategic Halon Reserve. I'm not kidding.

FE-36 isn't bad for general use, but so expensive. Novek might be interesting but no one makes a portable extinguisher with it. Nothing has the chemical action that Halon has though.

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It is more of an issue in cargo and engine protection extinguishers than hanhelds.

I work for a company that makes these...

Posted: 9/18/2017 8:06:36 PM EDT

[#31]

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Thanks...

you just gave me a hell of an idea as I swapped out my electric cooktop for gas last year. Out of curiosity why did you only connect 1 leg?

ETA: What type of interlock did you use? My unused breakers are way down in the panel, I may be able to move some around.

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You will have to move the breaker that you are going to use for the genset up to the top, closest to the main breaker (on the right side, at least in my situation). It's been a while, but I think that I ordered from these guys: http://www.interlockkit.com/

Edited to add:

I didn't wire both sides together because...well, I really don't know why. Maybe because something in my brain told me that wiring the two 120 legs together was somehow "wrong", even though in this case it would be just fine. Old habits and all.

Posted: 9/18/2017 9:14:06 PM EDT

[#32]

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How big a generator would I need to run a 16 SEER 5 ton HVAC unit?

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This one works on my 5 ton

Generac Ultrasource

Better plan on converting to LP or natural gas or have a lot of gas cans. I think they put a frame and wheels under one of their permanent mounts and called it a pirtable. Its a beast.

Posted: 9/18/2017 9:38:52 PM EDT

[#33]

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This one works on my 5 ton

Generac Ultrasource

Better plan on converting to LP or natural gas or have a lot of gas cans. I think they put a frame and wheels under one of their permanent mounts and called it a pirtable. Its a beast.

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Wow. That is a beast.

475 lbs

10 hrs at 1/2 load on 16 gallons of gas.

Posted: 9/18/2017 9:44:54 PM EDT

[#34]

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Well, according to the HVAC guy who posted his ampprobe 3 times, that should run around 16 amps

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Quoted:
How big a generator would I need to run a 16 SEER 5 ton HVAC unit?

Well, according to the HVAC guy who posted his ampprobe 3 times, that should run around 16 amps

Inrush current to be 3 to 4 times that the only way that you could do that with that light load is to use a variable frequency drive air-conditioning system they start out slow and ramp up

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:31:36 PM EDT

[#35]

Oh JOY!!!

The $BradyCampaign Folks and the $NeverSuicideCords Fans should get together...

And have a Party!!!

Posted: 9/19/2017 3:09:11 PM EDT

[#36]

Expy, took you long enough to join this par-par-party of a thread.

You missed all the self-important purse swinging earlier.

Posted: 9/19/2017 7:07:52 PM EDT

[#37]

Anyone had their EU2000 give them problems when hookedup to a transfer switch?

http://ricksdiy.com/generators/portable-inverter-generator-neutral-ground-bonding-plug-honda-yamaha/

“With the recent bad weather back east my email inbox has been filled with all sorts of questions regarding portable generators, transfer switch wiring, powering furnaces, well pumps etc. One of the big problems people are having is with the newer inverter type generators, the Honda EU series and the Yamaha and countless others like them. The issue is with powering certain equipment and electronics the generator shows a ground or reversed polarity fault and won’t work.”

Posted: 9/19/2017 7:46:14 PM EDT

[#38]

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You will have to move the breaker that you are going to use for the genset up to the top, closest to the main breaker (on the right side, at least in my situation). It's been a while, but I think that I ordered from these guys: http://www.interlockkit.com/

Edited to add:

I didn't wire both sides together because...well, I really don't know why. Maybe because something in my brain told me that wiring the two 120 legs together was somehow "wrong", even though in this case it would be just fine. Old habits and all.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Thanks...

you just gave me a hell of an idea as I swapped out my electric cooktop for gas last year. Out of curiosity why did you only connect 1 leg?

ETA: What type of interlock did you use? My unused breakers are way down in the panel, I may be able to move some around.

You will have to move the breaker that you are going to use for the genset up to the top, closest to the main breaker (on the right side, at least in my situation). It's been a while, but I think that I ordered from these guys: http://www.interlockkit.com/

Edited to add:

I didn't wire both sides together because...well, I really don't know why. Maybe because something in my brain told me that wiring the two 120 legs together was somehow "wrong", even though in this case it would be just fine. Old habits and all.

Thanks for the info. I'll have to dig into the panel to move some stuff but it's doable.

Posted: 9/22/2017 2:17:34 PM EDT

[#39]

Just as an FYI on interlock kits, I had assumed they were all the style that mounted to the panel cover and slides on standoffs back and forth. I couldn't find one for my panel, but they make a rocker type that attaches to the main breaker and locks out the adjacent inlet feed.

Attached File

install video

Posted: 9/23/2017 7:50:20 PM EDT

[#40]

Thanks to the contributors to this thread, I completed my install today.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Hooked-up-my-generator-to-my-electric-panel-today-with-pictures/5-2035419/

Posted: 9/26/2017 11:11:33 PM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
Anyone had their EU2000 give them problems when hookedup to a transfer switch?

http://ricksdiy.com/generators/portable-inverter-generator-neutral-ground-bonding-plug-honda-yamaha/

“With the recent bad weather back east my email inbox has been filled with all sorts of questions regarding portable generators, transfer switch wiring, powering furnaces, well pumps etc. One of the big problems people are having is with the newer inverter type generators, the Honda EU series and the Yamaha and countless others like them. The issue is with powering certain equipment and electronics the generator shows a ground or reversed polarity fault and won’t work.”

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Quote History

Quoted:
Anyone had their EU2000 give them problems when hookedup to a transfer switch?

http://ricksdiy.com/generators/portable-inverter-generator-neutral-ground-bonding-plug-honda-yamaha/

“With the recent bad weather back east my email inbox has been filled with all sorts of questions regarding portable generators, transfer switch wiring, powering furnaces, well pumps etc. One of the big problems people are having is with the newer inverter type generators, the Honda EU series and the Yamaha and countless others like them. The issue is with powering certain equipment and electronics the generator shows a ground or reversed polarity fault and won’t work.”

When I plug my UPS (APC BackUPS 1500 LCD) into my EU2000i, the "site wiring fault" light comes on. Everything works fine, UPS charges, etc, but it irritates me. Documentation says this:

Cause:
The Site Wiring Fault (SWF) LED light is only present on 120V UPS and Surge products. On APC UPS products this indicator is typically on the rear panel. The purpose of this indicator light is to warn you that there are problems with your building wiring that may result in a shock hazard.

APC recommends that you have a qualified electrician inspect your wiring for one or more of the conditions listed below.

Reasons why the Site Wiring Fault (SWF) LED light will illuminate:

1. Overloaded neutral wire (>5vac measured between Neutral and Ground).

2. Reversed polarity (hot and neutral wires are reversed).

3. Missing ground wire. (Note: this also includes using a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter)

Posted: 9/27/2017 1:21:07 AM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
When I plug my UPS (APC BackUPS 1500 LCD) into my EU2000i, the "site wiring fault" light comes on. Everything works fine, UPS charges, etc, but it irritates me. Documentation says this:

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:
When I plug my UPS (APC BackUPS 1500 LCD) into my EU2000i, the "site wiring fault" light comes on. Everything works fine, UPS charges, etc, but it irritates me. Documentation says this:

Cause:
The Site Wiring Fault (SWF) LED light is only present on 120V UPS and Surge products. On APC UPS products this indicator is typically on the rear panel. The purpose of this indicator light is to warn you that there are problems with your building wiring that may result in a shock hazard.

APC recommends that you have a qualified electrician inspect your wiring for one or more of the conditions listed below.

Reasons why the Site Wiring Fault (SWF) LED light will illuminate:
1. Overloaded neutral wire (>5vac measured between Neutral and Ground).

2. Reversed polarity (hot and neutral wires are reversed).

3. Missing ground wire. (Note: this also includes using a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter)

Reportedly the EU2000 and most/all inverter type generators do not bond their neutral and ground together in the generator. So there will be voltage between neutral and ground unless you bond them together. In one of the generator threads this issue was discussed and a simple fix displayed... a three prong plug with the neutral and ground connected together which is plugged in to the generator. You could also make a little extension cord or outlet box with the same kind of connection done internally to achieve the same result.

Posted: 9/27/2017 7:12:31 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:

Reportedly the EU2000 and most/all inverter type generators do not bond their neutral and ground together in the generator. So there will be voltage between neutral and ground unless you bond them together. In one of the generator threads this issue was discussed and a simple fix displayed... a three prong plug with the neutral and ground connected together which is plugged in to the generator. You could also make a little extension cord or outlet box with the same kind of connection done internally to achieve the same result.

View Quote

Ah so to the UPS this probably looks like condition #3. Thanks for the tip - will look into making an adapter.

Posted: 9/27/2017 9:20:34 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
Ah so to the UPS this probably looks like condition #3. Thanks for the tip - will look into making an adapter.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Reportedly the EU2000 and most/all inverter type generators do not bond their neutral and ground together in the generator. So there will be voltage between neutral and ground unless you bond them together. In one of the generator threads this issue was discussed and a simple fix displayed... a three prong plug with the neutral and ground connected together which is plugged in to the generator. You could also make a little extension cord or outlet box with the same kind of connection done internally to achieve the same result.

Ah so to the UPS this probably looks like condition #3. Thanks for the tip - will look into making an adapter.

No it probably looks like condition 1... since the neutral is completely floating (apparently), users report that voltage to ground from either the hot or neutral is about 60V.

Posted: 9/27/2017 11:04:37 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:

No it probably looks like condition 1... since the neutral is completely floating (apparently), users report that voltage to ground from either the hot or neutral is about 60V.

View Quote

Now when I get home I'm going to have to fire it up and put a meter on it ;)

Posted: 9/27/2017 11:48:47 PM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
Now when I get home I'm going to have to fire it up and put a meter on it ;)

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Quoted:

Quoted:

No it probably looks like condition 1... since the neutral is completely floating (apparently), users report that voltage to ground from either the hot or neutral is about 60V.

Now when I get home I'm going to have to fire it up and put a meter on it ;)

I'm just going off of what was reported in the other generator thread which I can't find. About 10 generator threads popped up in like a week.

Posted: 9/28/2017 9:20:12 AM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:

About 10 generator threads popped up in like a week.

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That is because, for some strange reason, everyone in Florida decided that it would be a good idea to buy a generator (including me)...

Posted: 9/29/2017 8:22:39 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:

No it probably looks like condition 1... since the neutral is completely floating (apparently), users report that voltage to ground from either the hot or neutral is about 60V.

View Quote

At what load impedance.

Otherwise, mostly meaningless...

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Someone school me on backfeeding or pig tailing a generator back into the house. (Page 13 of 13)

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