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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:06:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shoot, I read the news story while on a conference call.  
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:07:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait a minute, so if you're DUI and in a wreck if you just pretend to be unconscious or unresponsive and go to the hospital they cant force a blood alcohol level test? Is this a winning strategy for beating DUI? Any cops wanna chime in? I definitely thought cops could force a blood draw. Any DUI suspected MVAs where criminal charges will be sought will be warrant only. We dont ask for consent. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:07:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yea I did and I read the shitty blob of a story. I was asking based on the events in the 2nd video, it seems like if thats the protocol for getting blood from a patient/suspect then you could beat a DUI wreck by just being 'unconscious'. How would they be able to meet any of the 3 criteria? |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:10:16 PM EDT
[#4]
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I'm self-employed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lol, "I have hospital administration on the way." Like hospital administration gives a flying fuck about their employees.  |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:10:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is the nurse correct? I've dealt with shitheads like that before. Not to that level but I know the type. "Oh I'm sure you can stay on scene for just a few minutes while I ask some questions." "Actually this ambulance is rolling in 10 seconds and if you're on it the next stop is St. Joe's Hospital." "Are you trying to impede my investigation?" 
"No, I'm taking my patient to the hospital, you're free to investigate your ass off on the way there." |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:11:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Then the agency gets to try to use that blood test to reduce their financial liability for the lawsuit they know is coming. The only reason they would want it from a victim is so they can try to assasinate his character in court to reduce what damages they have to pay. Though I think this incident was uncalled for. It should be a relatively simple process to obtain a warrant for his blood + it removes liability from the hospital/nurse as well. Quoted:
The cop has shown he will violate the rights of a dying man. He should be fired. Every lawyer in court facing this cop should play this video. Though always best to have a warrant. Cover's the nurse/hospital + doesn't leave any openings for court. I think most professional agencies would just do the warrant. I've no doubt in a lot of smaller places they'd just pull the blood based on that. Driving is a privilege, not a right. Everyone so concerned with getting their license they don't bother paying attention to the legalities of it. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:12:21 PM EDT
[#7]
You may beat the rap but you won't beat the draw.
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:17:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Paid leave.
Internal investigation. Cleared of wrongdoing Taxpayers foot the bill in civil suit Goes home safe Am I missing anything? |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:18:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm guessing if you were suspected of a DUI they would arrest you which would meet the criteria for a blood draw on an unconscious patient |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:18:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is the nurse correct? Also, usually the hospital tox isn't admissable in court unless there was a proper chain of custody on the sample. Medical use doesn't equal legal use. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:18:32 PM EDT
[#11]
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In a lot of places its policy on fatal crashes to test for impairment on all drivers. You'd be surprised how many times a drunk driver is driving along normally and another vehicle crashes into them. Just because they didn't commit any traffic violations and didn't cause a crash doesn't excuse driving impaired. Though I think this incident was uncalled for. It should be a relatively simple process to obtain a warrant for his blood + it removes liability from the hospital/nurse as well. Technically when you signed for your driver's license you also signed consent for sobriety testing. If you are unconscious you aren't able to refuse and its implied consent to the testing. So I'm not sure what right he violated on the dying man. Though always best to have a warrant. Cover's the nurse/hospital + doesn't leave any openings for court. I think most professional agencies would just do the warrant. I've no doubt in a lot of smaller places they'd just pull the blood based on that. Driving is a privilege, not a right. Everyone so concerned with getting their license they don't bother paying attention to the legalities of it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Then the agency gets to try to use that blood test to reduce their financial liability for the lawsuit they know is coming. The only reason they would want it from a victim is so they can try to assasinate his character in court to reduce what damages they have to pay. Though I think this incident was uncalled for. It should be a relatively simple process to obtain a warrant for his blood + it removes liability from the hospital/nurse as well. Quoted:
The cop has shown he will violate the rights of a dying man. He should be fired. Every lawyer in court facing this cop should play this video. Though always best to have a warrant. Cover's the nurse/hospital + doesn't leave any openings for court. I think most professional agencies would just do the warrant. I've no doubt in a lot of smaller places they'd just pull the blood based on that. Driving is a privilege, not a right. Everyone so concerned with getting their license they don't bother paying attention to the legalities of it. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:19:40 PM EDT
[#12]
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I think so, but should have gotten her hospital legal involved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is the nurse correct? |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:19:56 PM EDT
[#13]
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And so his boss: Payne — who contends he wanted the blood sample to protect the victim, not punish him — said he was advised by Lt. James Tracy, the watch commander on duty that night, to arrest Wubbels for interfering with a police investigation if she refused to let him get the sample, according to his report. Gray is a truck driver when he is not serving as a reserve police officer, according to the Idaho State Journal. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:20:50 PM EDT
[#14]
The sad part is there was fail from top to bottom on this but only the detective is getting it up. Reading other articles he wasn't sure on the current case law so he contacted the Watch Commander who ordered him to arrest the nurse. Shit only rolls downhill lol
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:21:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it seems like if thats the protocol for getting blood from a patient/suspect then you could beat a DUI wreck by just being 'unconscious'. How would they be able to meet any of the 3 criteria? |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:22:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If my baby got smashed by a drunk, I'd be very unhappy that he wasn't nailed for it because the hospital couldn't get a blood draw because he fucked up sooooo bad that he wasn't even conscious until the alcohol was out of his system. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:22:07 PM EDT
[#17]
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How would they suspect you if you were 'unconscious' since they arrived on scene? Assuming nothing retarded like bottle in the car. Police don't need an open and shut case to arrest someone. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:22:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We gave cops benefit of the doubt. We would draw (iodine--no alcohol prep!!) or if not we would Order a tox screen on our own for our own reasons. Make sure to mention it in chart so it's discoverable
But Florida law at that time at least allowed wide lattitude A good lawyer would probably get your medical blood alcohol tossed as evidence. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:23:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Cop seems to think he is in charge in the hospital, which he is not.
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:23:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I used to be a real doctor there was a distinction between a "medical" blood alcohol (done for medical reasons/diagnosis) and "legal" blood alcohol (done to be used as evidence in a trial). The legal blood alcohol sample had to have a documented chain of custody from collection to analysis so no lawyer could claim the sample could have been swapped or tampered with. A good lawyer would probably get your medical blood alcohol tossed as evidence. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We gave cops benefit of the doubt. We would draw (iodine--no alcohol prep!!) or if not we would Order a tox screen on our own for our own reasons. Make sure to mention it in chart so it's discoverable
But Florida law at that time at least allowed wide lattitude A good lawyer would probably get your medical blood alcohol tossed as evidence. 
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:23:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the local hospitals around here do blood withdraw as a routine eval. In that blood they will test for the BAC level. We just ask for a dyal subpoena and get the results. But we don't enforce CDL procedures so I would never go request one for that reason alone. There is no chain of custody on that specimen. I order BACs all the time, but that's for medical purposes, NOT legal purposes. Cops get a different sample that is analyzed at the State lab, NOT in my hospital lab. I may or may not have left a BAC result or 2 lying on the desk when a cop walked by. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:26:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why are they wanting to draw blood from the guy in the semi? What the fuck did he do, other than end up on the receiving end of an asshole running from the cops? |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:26:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cop was doing the blood draw and not the nurse. Nurse was refusing access. Cop said he was using implied consent which ended a decade ago in Utah AND SCOTUS dumped the law a few years ago. This was the victim. Cop is an idiot. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:26:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good luck getting a conviction like that. There is no chain of custody on that specimen. I order BACs all the time, but that's for medical purposes, NOT legal purposes. Cops get a different sample that is analyzed at the State lab, NOT in my hospital lab. I may or may not have left a BAC result or 2 lying on the desk when a cop walked by. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know the local hospitals around here do blood withdraw as a routine eval. In that blood they will test for the BAC level. We just ask for a dyal subpoena and get the results. But we don't enforce CDL procedures so I would never go request one for that reason alone. There is no chain of custody on that specimen. I order BACs all the time, but that's for medical purposes, NOT legal purposes. Cops get a different sample that is analyzed at the State lab, NOT in my hospital lab. I may or may not have left a BAC result or 2 lying on the desk when a cop walked by. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:28:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Porter said no claim or lawsuit has been filed. There have been discussions with Salt Lake City police and she feels the department will educate its officers, she said. I'm betting they are waiting to see if the dept is going to make his recent unpaid vacation permanent. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:29:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow! Bad, bad, bad that was. The cop deserves whatever he gets.  
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:29:55 PM EDT
[#27]
I hope I don't read in this thread that some in the LEO community will find this was correct.
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:30:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Paid leave. Internal investigation. Cleared of wrongdoing Taxpayers foot the bill in civil suit Goes home safe Am I missing anything? No civil suit. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:30:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Good for her sticking to her principles and the law.
<looking right at you, fucking imbecile cop> |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:31:01 PM EDT
[#30]
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We would routinely tell cops the result by announcing it to the doctor or the patient. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:31:08 PM EDT
[#31]
Even from here I can hear lawyers in Utah laughing and hooting down at the marina. If you're going to be stupid, get a job with an employer with deep pockets.
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:32:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If my baby got smashed by a drunk, I'd be very unhappy that he wasn't nailed for it because the hospital couldn't get a blood draw because he fucked up sooooo bad that he wasn't even conscious until the alcohol was out of his system. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cop needs to get fucked for this. Blood alcohol is useful only for putting it in the DUI box or manslaughter box. It is not the medical profession's job to nail people by collecting blood without a warrant. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:32:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good luck getting a conviction like that. There is no chain of custody on that specimen. I order BACs all the time, but that's for medical purposes, NOT legal purposes. Cops get a different sample that is analyzed at the State lab, NOT in my hospital lab. I may or may not have left a BAC result or 2 lying on the desk when a cop walked by. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know the local hospitals around here do blood withdraw as a routine eval. In that blood they will test for the BAC level. We just ask for a dyal subpoena and get the results. But we don't enforce CDL procedures so I would never go request one for that reason alone. There is no chain of custody on that specimen. I order BACs all the time, but that's for medical purposes, NOT legal purposes. Cops get a different sample that is analyzed at the State lab, NOT in my hospital lab. I may or may not have left a BAC result or 2 lying on the desk when a cop walked by. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:32:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You would disclose protected medical information deliberately to the police? You sure you want to be posting that publicly? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We would routinely tell cops the result by announcing it to the doctor or the patient.
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:33:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cop needs to get fucked for this. 
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:33:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even from here I can hear lawyers in Utah laughing and hooting down at the marina. If you're going to be stupid, get a job with an employer with deep pockets. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:33:36 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You ordered medically unnecessary tests that your patient was billed for? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We gave cops benefit of the doubt. We would draw (iodine--no alcohol prep!!) or if not we would Order a tox screen on our own for our own reasons. Make sure to mention it in chart so it's discoverable
But Florida law at that time at least allowed wide lattitude |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:34:37 PM EDT
[#38]
I'm not reading this whole thread but if in an accident driving for a living where a CDL is required you need to piss or bleed for the DOT regardless of who's at fault. Officer is still a turd regardless. Get the warrant and get your stuff, that simple.
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:35:21 PM EDT
[#39]
These cops need to be held criminally negligent when the law is broken.
Arrest someone falsely like this? Charge the cop. Misrepresent the law? Charge the cop. I know for a fact that a lawyer can be held criminally liable for misrepresenting statutes and case law in the court, to the judge, in the state of North Carolina. Cops should know every law they enforce, and not enforce the ones they don't know. It baffles me that the only "real" repercussions are administrative, and most of those are wrist-slaps. Cops sitting in jail cells for this behavior will put a definitive end to the bullshit. Not lost vacation, not a reprimand, criminal charges. Let them face the same fate as those who are falsely arrested. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:35:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Strange that the UT DOT is not the one in charge of this.
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:35:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Title 42 USC Section 1983. Paydirt!
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:36:05 PM EDT
[#42]
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It's Florida and Florida man, for God's sake. Anything can happen. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We gave cops benefit of the doubt. We would draw (iodine--no alcohol prep!!) or if not we would Order a tox screen on our own for our own reasons. Make sure to mention it in chart so it's discoverable
But Florida law at that time at least allowed wide lattitude |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:37:36 PM EDT
[#43]
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Yes. No civil suit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Paid leave. Internal investigation. Cleared of wrongdoing Taxpayers foot the bill in civil suit Goes home safe Am I missing anything? No civil suit. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:38:10 PM EDT
[#44]
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If they arrest him, they have to pay for his care. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why couldn't they just arrest him? Surely there is sufficient probable cause.
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:38:20 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why are they wanting to draw blood from the guy in the semi? What the fuck did he do, other than end up on the receiving end of an asshole running from the cops? |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:39:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These cops need to be held criminally negligent when the law is broken. Arrest someone falsely like this? Charge the cop. Misrepresent the law? Charge the cop. I know for a fact that a lawyer can be held criminally liable for misrepresenting statutes and case law in the court, to the judge, in the state of North Carolina. Cops should know every law they enforce, and not enforce the ones they don't know. It baffles me that the only "real" repercussions are administrative, and most of those are wrist-slaps. Cops sitting in jail cells for this behavior will put a definitive end to the bullshit. Not lost vacation, not a reprimand, criminal charges. Let them face the same fate as those who are falsely arrested. |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:39:17 PM EDT
[#47]
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Poor truck driver: tooling along making a living, minding his own business when some dipshit runs into him, setting him on fire. He's lying unconscious in a Burn Unit when some cop insists his nurse stab him with a sharp object. Then said cop hauls his nurse off for refusing to assault the patient. Really bad day |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:39:55 PM EDT
[#48]
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He has a commercial drivers license and was involved in an injury/fatality accident. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why are they wanting to draw blood from the guy in the semi? What the fuck did he do, other than end up on the receiving end of an asshole running from the cops? |
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:40:07 PM EDT
[#49]
I hope the nurse comes to her senses and goes for financial blood.
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Posted: 8/31/2017 10:40:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have the court subpoena the guys blood, done. The hospital has it already anyways. I don't know how their state law works when it comes to blood draws so I'm not going to comment. In my area the nurses refuse to draw blood even if it's within the statute. They still demand a warrant or consent even if your fully within the law. |
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