[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is this ethical? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/27/2017 10:52:01 AM EDT
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I currently live in Kentucky, but I own a house in the D.C. area that I'm getting ready to sell, but it is currently empty. My work is about to send me to the DC area for a month with all the normal per diem, hotel cost, rental car...etc reimbursed on receipts. Would it be unethical to put my own house on Airbnb for the nightly rate for the DC area and just stay at my house while working out there for a month. This would allow me to pocket the hotel allowance (minus the 3% airbnb charges) while staying in my place and getting to do the painting and everything else I need to do to get it on the market. There isn't anything illegal about it, but what says the hive?
ETA: The money is client billed, not absorbed by my company. |
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Quoted:
If you have to ask  .
I'd personally record it as a cost avoidance for the company, take my gold star and move on |
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Asking the question does not necessarily implies the answer. It seems like a deal too good to be true, so work it through....
Ethics. What are the governing ethics in play? Contract? Personal Morals? Criminal law? If your contract says you can bill up to $xxx.00 per day for housing, and that's all, it's clear. If the contract says something ambiguous, it's a bad contract, and you need a lawyer. Pardon me, you needed a lawyer when you signed it. Get one before you re-up. Now it's eating at me that I may have missed something in the thread. will edit. Edit: It all goes back to contract language. and Lawyers. Does hotel mean no B&B, no motels, no motor inn, no alternative whacky progressive lodging? if it means HOTEL, you cant do it. if you can do what you want, do what you want. You own this property, but it is not your residence, right? I'm trying to use the "reasonable person" to clear up ambiguities, but an attorney will solve this, so, as much as I hate it, I say call a lawyer. |
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You're supposed to provide the most efficient services you can to your client, not fleece them for everything you think you can get away with. |
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Asking the question does not necessarily implies the answer. It seems like a deal too good to be true, so work it through.... Ethics. What are the governing ethics in play? Contract? Personal Morals? Criminal law? If your contract says you can bill up to $xxx.00 per day for housing, and that's all, it's clear. If the contract says something ambiguous, it's a bad contract, and you need a lawyer. Pardon me, you needed a lawyer when you signed it. Get one before you re-up. Now it's eating at me that I may have missed something in the thread. will edit. Edit: It all goes back to contract language. and Lawyers. Does hotel mean no B&B, no motels, no motor inn, no alternative whacky progressive lodging? if it means HOTEL, you cant do it. if you can do what you want, do what you want. You own this property, but it is not your residence, right? I'm trying to use the "reasonable person" to clear up ambiguities, but an attorney will solve this, so, as much as I hate it, I say call a lawyer. ETA: We have stayed at other airbnb's in the past while working for this client. The only thing that would change, is that I own the airbnb property. |
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You're supposed to provide the most efficient services you can to your client, not fleece them for everything you think you can get away with. |
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as a former dot gov contractor, I'd say "You're supposed to whore yourself out at unreasonably low prices and hope you one day get paid, and then hope they dont come back for what they paid you, AND try to take other shit away to pay for somebody else's $24000.00 toilet seat. |
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okay IS2. I'm still thinking lawyer, but barring that, if everyone from your contract administrator to the cabinet level official/CEO depending on the type of client knew it was your place you were getting reimbursed for, would they be okay with it.
Now I'm falling into the anti "what you can get away with" camp. |
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as a former dot gov contractor, I'd say "You're supposed to whore yourself out at unreasonably low prices and hope you one day get paid, and then hope they dont come back for what they paid you, AND try to take other shit away to pay for somebody else's $24000.00 toilet seat. Wealthy people get wealthy by doing smart things. |
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I would disclose up front what you are doing.
I don't think it's necessarily unethical but it's something that could potentially put you or your company at risk. I know of a guy that was doing something similar. He was staying with his parents and creating a generic receipt to pay his parents. It was actually lower than what a 4 night stay in a hotel would've been. He was otherwise loved by the client, he did great work. However, when the client discovered what he was doing it didn't sit well with them. Whether right or wrong, the client felt like it was underhanded. It ended up putting us at risk because the client felt that we were hiding something from them and then ultimately wondered if there were other things we were hiding. |
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Had they known at the time the contract was signed, that you would be staying at your own property, would the client have agreed to pay the allotted amount for housing?
Would they be upset learning that they are paying your company to house you in your own home? Would your company be upset learning that they're paying a company for you to stay in your own home and that you'll be receiving money from that company to stay there? Transparency is key here. If you're not intentionally deceiving anyone along the way, you're fine. As soon as you have to hide your actions, you are using deception for monetary gain, which is unethical. Whether something is or isn't legal, is not the deciding factor in ethics. |
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In fact you're doing what's in the best interest of the client. In appearance, it might not look like it depending on the individuals involved. After all, corporations ARE in fact people. Just a lot of them. It is important to note, that I live in Kentucky where my wife and legal residence is, and the client is covering travel cost from Kentucky to the site. The house in DC is normally rented out, and this is not me staying at my primary residence and billing. |
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Price it all out, make your AirBnB the best deal, and then tell them that it's your place.
If anyone asks why they should reimburse you for staying in your own place, tell them that it's an opportunity cost. If you stay in your rental property, you lose money because you can't rent it out. If they continue to gripe about it, just take it off the table. "Sorry the place that was 15% less than every one else is no longer available, I just rented it to a couple." |
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It's a grey area and I am known to operate in the grey; it's usually more profitable, legal and only morally questionable... So I would do it. |
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I don't think it's unethical. Your housing in DC, however procured, has costs associated with it. Billing living expenses seems reasonable to me.
I believe it becomes unethical if you were to bill more than actual expenses, but since actual expenses would be difficult to itemize, simply billing them at a discounted rate seems reasonable to me. Doing the Air BNB thing simply documents those expenses in an acceptable manner. If you knew a friend in DC, and he had a house, and let you stay, and use his kitchen for free, would pocketing the allowable expenses be unethical? I think yes. If however, he allowed you to stay for a reduced price, and you billed for that and whatever other food allowance etc, would that be unethical? I don't think so. |
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However unlikely in actuality, maybe ask yourself what the client would say if they found out? Would they feel screwed, or say no big deal? Can you score some points by telling them how you safe on this but not future trips?
I always try to save money on trips where the client or even my firm is paying, but i really dont see a problem if you rented someone elses house through air bnb. Interesting quandary. |
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Where I work, that would get you fired. You are required to disclose conflicts -- or the appearance of conflicts -- to your employer. Ethics: fail. I'm going to stay in that house no matter what, because I have work I need to do on it in my off hours, this is easier if I'm sleeping there. If I don't bill for my house, I will still have to bill for a hotel that I'm not using. My company won't let me just not bill the client for housing because of issues it would create later. So is it really more unethical than paying for a hotel that I'm not sleeping at? |
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No it's not, and here's why: You could be renting it to someone else and making money. By staying there and not renting on the client's dime you are losing money...you shouldn't be expected to do that. Add in the fact that he may not get renters for the full month, has to pay a cleaning service after each rental, etc. I would run it by my direct manager and if he/she gives you the thumbs up, do it. |
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Theoretically, It would be a wash if he's renting it to someone else, yet living in a Hotel at the same rate. Add in the fact that he may not get renters for the full month, has to pay a cleaning service after each rental, etc. I would run it by my direct manager and if he/she gives you the thumbs up, do it. he also said the client is going to get billed for it anyway. I agree, run it past boss and go for it. I would think boss likely won't care once he has all the details. |
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I'd look at it from the clients POV. If I was your client and found out you were doing that I'd be pissed off. If I was the client and I had all the info available, I wouldn't give two shits. |
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Why not ask your boss? |
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If it was a government contract I wouldn't have even asked, I would have just done it. It's a private company but they use the standard government rates for the area, so $179 a day per housing and $69 per day for MI&E. I just need receipts for housing, the MI&E is flat rate bankable. Give them the option and make it easy. |