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2/12/2017 10:44:29 AM EDT
I have someone asking me what they are worth. He has one in good condition. Doesn't come with anything but a mag. No pics. GB said around 900$. Any insight?
2/12/2017 10:49:22 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I have someone asking me what they are worth. He has one in good condition. Doesn't come with anything but a mag. No pics. GB said around 900$. Any insight?
View Quote
Polytech doesnt make the M1A, that's Springfield Armory Inc.'s M14 pattern rifle. Polytech makes the M-14/S. I'd say $900-$1000 based on condition.

ETA: forgot to ask, if its a heel marked or side marked receiver? Expect the heel marked version to fetch the higher end of the price range.
2/12/2017 10:52:16 AM EDT
[#2]
I've seen a couple in the EE go for $800
2/12/2017 10:57:57 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote History
Quoted:
Polytech doesnt make the M1A, that's Springfield Armory Inc.'s M14 pattern rifle. Polytech makes the M-14/S. I'd say $900-$1000 based on condition.

ETA: forgot to ask, if its a heel marked or side marked receiver? Expect the heel marked version to fetch the higher end of the price range.
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Ah ok.

I will ask about where the markings are. Why would that up its value?
2/12/2017 10:58:09 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote History
Quoted:
I've seen a couple in the EE go for $800
View Quote


Thanks
2/12/2017 11:01:36 AM EDT
[#5]
You see them from 800-1100. So that Sounds about right.
2/12/2017 11:02:38 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote History
Quoted:
You see them from 800-1100. So that Sounds about right.
View Quote


Thanks
2/12/2017 11:09:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote History
Quoted:


Ah ok.

I will ask about where the markings are. Why would that up its value?
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They are earlier imports, generally cleaner markings and M14 guys like the markings on the heel as thats where they are 'supposed to be' on an M14.
2/12/2017 11:10:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote History
Quoted:
They are earlier imports, generally cleaner markings and M14 guys like the markings on the heel as thats where they are 'supposed to be' on an M14.
View Quote


Good to know.
2/12/2017 12:25:14 PM EDT
[#9]
One last question. Why are these worth so much? Seems like they have mixed reviews and for a little bit more money you can get into a springfield M1a.
2/12/2017 12:32:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote History
Quoted:
One last question. Why are these worth so much? Seems like they have mixed reviews and for a little bit more money you can get into a springfield M1a.
View Quote


I'm far from an expert, but I think Polys have forged receivers, M1As are cast.

Also "they are banned", so that probably helps it along a bit.
2/12/2017 12:36:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote History
Quoted:


I'm far from an expert, but I think Polys have forged receivers, M1As are cast.

Also "they are banned", so that probably helps it along a bit.
View Quote


I've read the Polys and even Norincos have better quality receivers than the SAs.  They lacked in quality bolts though.  Make are really nice base for upgrading though...
2/12/2017 12:39:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Mostly the forged receiver.
2/12/2017 12:40:22 PM EDT
[#13]
DT
2/12/2017 12:45:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Ah ok. Thanks
2/12/2017 12:45:52 PM EDT
[#15]
When did SA go to cast receivers?
2/12/2017 12:46:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote History
Quoted:


I'm far from an expert, but I think Polys have forged receivers, M1As are cast.

Also "they are banned", so that probably helps it along a bit.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
One last question. Why are these worth so much? Seems like they have mixed reviews and for a little bit more money you can get into a springfield M1a.


I'm far from an expert, but I think Polys have forged receivers, M1As are cast.

Also "they are banned", so that probably helps it along a bit.


Cast receivers were shown to last around 250,000 rounds, forged, 400,000 rounds. If made properly to dimension, both are perfectly fine, the number of people that will burn up 20 rifle barrels per firearm are very few and far between.

The quality of the parts inside the firearm make a bigger difference, the newer SA's are middlin, the old ones that were chock full of USGI parts are good to go. I own 3 SA's including a Devine TX one, the newest one has a 48K SN range, all are pretty much USGI save for the receiver.

Don't forget, the Norc's have some screwy thread pitches, crap wood stocks, and someone [not sure if Norc] had issues with rear sights jumping out of alignment.
2/12/2017 12:48:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote History
Quoted:
When did SA go to cast receivers?
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SA, Inc. M1A receivers have always been fabricated from machined investment castings.  SA, Inc. has never, ever made a forged M1A receiver.  They talked about doing it in the late 1980s / early 1990s, but it never came to be.
2/12/2017 12:50:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote History
Quoted:


Cast receivers were shown to last around 250,000 rounds, forged, 400,000 rounds. If made properly to dimension, both are perfectly fine, the number of people that will burn up 20 rifle barrels per firearm are very few and far between.

The quality of the parts inside the firearm make a bigger difference, the newer SA's are middlin, the old ones that were chock full of USGI parts are good to go. I own 3 SA's including a Devine TX one, the newest one has a 48K SN range, all are pretty much USGI save for the receiver.
View Quote


Copy. I bought a M1a for 900$ last year. It has quite a few usgi parts in it.
2/12/2017 1:34:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Chinese M14-type rifles were considered desirable because of the receiver which is forged, and they were only game in town for a long time if you wanted a forged receiver.  People often purchased the whole rifle and stripped it down to the receiver to build a rifle with USGI parts.  Some would keep the barreled action, and replace the bolt with one that was USGI.  Sometimes, fitting a USGI M14 bolt to a Chinese receiver required some light machine work, or careful work with a dremel tool.  Some claimed the bolts were soft, or the bolt lugs out of spec.  Smith Enterprises claimed some receivers were soft, and would heat treat the receiver to the proper hardness for a fee.  They also fit USGI bolts to Chinese receivers.

Some Chinese parts are not interchangeable with USGI components:  

1.  Rear sight components use metric threads.  I have read (but do not know) that rear sight parts were soft.
2.  Barrel is torqued into the receiver, and a set screw of soft material is used to hold it in place.  Why?  I don't have a clue.  Barrel can be removed and replaced with USGI barrel, but you have to be careful not to bugger that screw before you remove the barrel.
3.  Threads on the barrel are metric, so a USGI gas cylinder lock and flash suppressor castle nut won't work on a chinese barrel (a USGI flash suppressor will, however).  
4.  Gas cylinder is manufactured from carbon steel, as opposed to USGI gas cylinders which are manufactured from stainless steel.  I'm assuming the gas cylinder lock plug uses metric threads as well.
5.  Chinese Operating Rod spring guide pin is shorter and a different diameter than USGI parts.  If you put a USGI stock on a Chinese rifle without replacing this pin, the pin will walk out and render the weapon inoperable.  Replace with a USGI pin, or glue a piece of popsicle stick on the inside of a USGI stock to prevent the pin from walking out of place.
 

SA, Ind., Armscorp, Fulton Armory, Federal Ordnance, and some others out there made rifles with investment cast receivers.  I believe Smith Enterprises made some cast receivers as well (along with billet steel and forged).  SA, Inc. added material to parts of their receiver to compensate for being cast.

Many of the current SA, Inc. M1A parts are manufactured in Taiwan.  

There are several domestic manufacturers of forged receivers now.  LRB, James River Armory, and Bula Defense all currently make excellent forged receivers, and they can be purchased either as a stripped part or as complete rifles.  Smith Enterprise made a run of forged receivers recently.  Entreprise Arms made a receiver of billet steel, but they were a mixed bag in terms of quality.

All that said, everything I've read about Chinese rifles are that they are better than the internet would have you believe.  Even if the barrel components do use metric threads, the barrel steel is good, the chrome lining is excellent, and the barrels are reported to be quite accurate.  The op rod is a one-piece forging of good quality, and the gas cylinder is of good quality as well.   I have read, but cannot confirm that some of the parts in Chinese trigger groups are soft.  Faulty trigger groups don't seem to be much of a problem for those that own them, so it may be just more internet bullshit.  The stocks made of Chu wood were ugly as Hell, but they could be replaced with a USGI stock with the minor modification(s) mentioned above.
2/12/2017 1:45:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote History
Quoted:


Cast receivers were shown to last around 250,000 rounds, forged, 400,000 rounds. If made properly to dimension, both are perfectly fine, the number of people that will burn up 20 rifle barrels per firearm are very few and far between.

The quality of the parts inside the firearm make a bigger difference, the newer SA's are middlin, the old ones that were chock full of USGI parts are good to go. I own 3 SA's including a Devine TX one, the newest one has a 48K SN range, all are pretty much USGI save for the receiver.

Don't forget, the Norc's have some screwy thread pitches, crap wood stocks, and someone [not sure if Norc] had issues with rear sights jumping out of alignment.
View Quote


Agree, but that wasn't what the OP asked.  He wants to know why they are desirable and that is due to the forged receiver.  I would find an old SA with all GI parts or just get a kit and build on a BULA receiver, but that is a personal opinion.  I have no issue with cast receivers and agree that if done correctly will outlast nearly any shooters life.
2/12/2017 1:48:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Good guns. Mine is boringly reliable.
2/12/2017 1:57:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote History
Quoted:
Chinese M14-type rifles were considered desirable because of the receiver which is forged, and they were only game in town for a long time if you wanted a forged receiver.  People often purchased the whole rifle and stripped it down to the receiver to build a rifle with USGI parts.  Some would keep the barreled action, and replace the bolt with one that was USGI.  Sometimes, fitting a USGI M14 bolt to a Chinese receiver required some light machine work, or careful work with a dremel tool.  Some claimed the bolts were soft, or the bolt lugs out of spec.  Smith Enterprises claimed some receivers were soft, and would heat treat the receiver to the proper hardness for a fee.  They also fit USGI bolts to Chinese receivers.

Some Chinese parts are not interchangeable with USGI components:  

1.  Rear sight components use metric threads.  I have read (but do not know) that rear sight parts were soft.
2.  Barrel is torqued into the receiver, and a set screw of soft material is used to hold it in place.  Why?  I don't have a clue.  Barrel can be removed and replaced with USGI barrel, but you have to be careful not to bugger that screw before you remove the barrel.
3.  Threads on the barrel are metric, so a USGI gas cylinder lock and flash suppressor castle nut won't work on a chinese barrel (a USGI flash suppressor will, however).  
4.  Gas cylinder is manufactured from carbon steel, as opposed to USGI gas cylinders which are manufactured from stainless steel.  I'm assuming the gas cylinder lock plug uses metric threads as well.
5.  Chinese Operating Rod spring guide pin is shorter and a different diameter than USGI parts.  If you put a USGI stock on a Chinese rifle without replacing this pin, the pin will walk out and render the weapon inoperable.  Replace with a USGI pin, or glue a piece of popsicle stick on the inside of a USGI stock to prevent the pin from walking out of place.
 

SA, Ind., Armscorp, Fulton Armory, Federal Ordnance, and some others out there made rifles with investment cast receivers.  I believe Smith Enterprises made some cast receivers as well (along with billet steel and forged).  SA, Inc. added material to parts of their receiver to compensate for being cast.

Many of the current SA, Inc. M1A parts are manufactured in Taiwan.  

There are several domestic manufacturers of forged receivers now.  LRB, James River Armory, and Bula Defense all currently make excellent forged receivers, and they can be purchased either as a stripped part or as complete rifles.  Smith Enterprise made a run of forged receivers recently.  Entreprise Arms made a receiver of billet steel, but they were a mixed bag in terms of quality.

All that said, everything I've read about Chinese rifles are that they are better than the internet would have you believe.  Even if the barrel components do use metric threads, the barrel steel is good, the chrome lining is excellent, and the barrels are reported to be quite accurate.  The op rod is a one-piece forging of good quality, and the gas cylinder is of good quality as well.   I have read, but cannot confirm that some of the parts in Chinese trigger groups are soft.  Faulty trigger groups don't seem to be much of a problem for those that own them, so it may be just more internet bullshit.  The stocks made of Chu wood were ugly as Hell, but they could be replaced with a USGI stock with the minor modification(s) mentioned above.
View Quote



With a Chinese rifle, replace the rear sight assembly with USGI or Italian Garand or BM59 sight assrmblies
2/12/2017 2:08:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Two years ago (I think), I paid $900 for an M14/S that was unfired and came with 10 magazines. It is side marked.

It had been wiped down externally, but there was still cosmoline in the action. The cleaning kit in the buttstock was still wrapped in paper and soaked in cosmoline.

I replaced the flash hider and the rear sight. I put about 40 rounds through it to check function and it had no malfunctions.

I really need to get it to the range again.