[ARCHIVED THREAD] - M855 is garbage. Absolute garbage! (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/11/2017 7:38:04 PM EDT
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Took the AR I just finished building with a 18" LaRue PredatAR barrel I won (thank you Mr. LaRue) to my land to sight it in (AimPoint PRO, 3x Bushnell Magnifier, 100 yards).
I wasted 87 hours chasing a zero with garbage for groups. I wanted to zero it for M855 because I have a LOT of it (thank you Mayan Apocalypse). I couldn't get any semblance of a group. I shot with a Caldwell tripod shooting platform, with sandbags- total garbage. I was pretty convinced that I just sucked. I hadn't shot an AR in about a year. Rusty? Thankfully, before I threw in the towel and swore off guns forever, I remembered that I had a box of handloads in the car. Sierra Matchking 69g HPBT with 24.5g of RL 15. Top target is handloads, bottom is Federal M855. Attached File The M855 is probably still in the 4 MOA spec, but with the dispersion so random I had no faith in calculating a mathematical center, making adjustments, and calling it good. I still need to work up a load for this particular rifle, since I like punching ragged holes. I only had 23 rounds loaded, so I didn't get to walk out to 200 (my preferred AR zero). My 300 yard Zombie Apocalypse head shots with thousands of rounds of milsurplus fantasy is now kaput. Back to the reloading bench for me. Attached File |
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You only confirmed what we could have told you....... Military ball is not capable of 1 MOA.
And shooting 3-4 MOA ammo in an excellent barrel like LaRue's will not make it shoot better than 3-4 MOA. The limitation is the ammo, not the rifle, the barrel, or you. |
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Quoted:
I get much better groups than that (2-2.5 MOA) with open sights on the rack grade A2's at work we use for competitions. It's certainly not the best ammo, but I think that particular barrel just doesn't like M855. I agree. While the difference in these particular strings is appalling, I have several rifle that will shoot 1.5 - 2.0 MOA with M855. This particular barrel just doesn't like it. At all. I generally find about 2 or 3 loads for each rifle that shoot well. I just wanted this particular gun to be my Armageddon gun. I'll try M193 and see if it's any better. |
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http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n128/mazawakhan/IMG_4203_zpsk7vicw8y.jpg 100yds M855 out of my Tavor with a TA-31A, and stock trigger. I would have been totally happy with those results. |
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My SPR is under MOA with BH 77gn SMK and around 2 MOA at 100yds with M855.
My barrel is a 18" Douglas barrel on a Colt upper with a KAC FF rail. My Scope is a Leopold Mk4 2.5x8 on a badger one piece rail. Maybe try getting a scope and see if tings get better, I can hit a steel target at 500m with M855. Did you try starting your zero at 25m and then moving to 100m? My 16" M4 with a T-1 can hit clay targets at 100m with M855. Maybe your barrel just doesn't like M855, which makes no sense to me |
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Quoted:
You only confirmed what we could have told you....... Military ball is not capable of 1 MOA. And shooting 3-4 MOA ammo in an excellent barrel like LaRue's will not make it shoot better than 3-4 MOA. The limitation is the ammo, not the rifle, the barrel, or you. 
You know people hate evidence and facts! |
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My SPR is under MOA with BH 77gn SMK and around 2 MOA at 100yds with M855. My barrel is a 18" Douglas barrel on a Colt upper with a KAC FF rail. My Scope is a Leopold Mk4 2.5x8 on a badger one piece rail. Maybe try getting a scope and see if tings get better, I can hit a steel target at 500m with M855. Did you try starting your zero at 25m and then moving to 100m? My 16" M4 with a T-1 can hit clay targets at 100m with M855. Maybe your barrel just doesn't like M855, which makes no sense to me The top target was shot seconds before the bottom. It's the ammo. |
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Looks like my experience shooting ZQI M80 versus 168gr FGMM out of my Colt 901.
Shooting from a rest at 100 yards to confirm my zero, FGMM was just boom, bullseye. Bullseye. Bullseye. Bullseye. Bullseye. ZQI M80... minute of dinner plate and the Turk powder smells like a rotten kebab. 
MEN M80 OTOH is the best mil-surp ammo I've ever seen in any caliber. Holds a good 1.5 MOA average all day long, or at least it did from the batch I shot. Those Krauts make good ammo. I need to try MEN in 5.56 and see if that gets similar results. |
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Wolf steel shoots better than that shit, everybody knows that. I've never shot M855, but have shot plenty of wolf, wolf is so bad I thought I was getting suppressor strikes or something weird on a rifle I sighted in with m193. it was FEET off at 300 yards. M193 really isn't very good. I hate to say it but some of the most accurate cheap ammo I've shot was 62gr golden bear.. stuff just alway shot well for me.. |
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Quoted:
You only confirmed what we could have told you....... Military ball is not capable of 1 MOA. And shooting 3-4 MOA ammo in an excellent barrel like LaRue's will not make it shoot better than 3-4 MOA. The limitation is the ammo, not the rifle, the barrel, or you. This makes me feel a lot better. I tried sighting in my new 6920 with m855. It was so bad I went to the optometrist yesterday, no lie 
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http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n128/mazawakhan/IMG_4203_zpsk7vicw8y.jpg 100yds M855 out of my Tavor with a TA-31A, and stock trigger. I get even better result with my Stag Model and and an S3G. The 62 grain green tips are my rifle's favorite ammo. |
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The top target was shot seconds before the bottom. It's the ammo. Quoted:
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My SPR is under MOA with BH 77gn SMK and around 2 MOA at 100yds with M855. My barrel is a 18" Douglas barrel on a Colt upper with a KAC FF rail. My Scope is a Leopold Mk4 2.5x8 on a badger one piece rail. Maybe try getting a scope and see if tings get better, I can hit a steel target at 500m with M855. Did you try starting your zero at 25m and then moving to 100m? My 16" M4 with a T-1 can hit clay targets at 100m with M855. Maybe your barrel just doesn't like M855, which makes no sense to me The top target was shot seconds before the bottom. It's the ammo. |
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OP, you didn't mention the twist. This was my first thought. Twist rate matters. The most finicky caliber I've ever shot is 22-250. 45 grains and it's a tiny clover leaf. 52 grains, it's still good, 55 grains and I look like it's my first day with a rifle. |
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Me either, just seemed to hit the target over and over. Strange. Quoted:
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Funny, I had no problem qualifying expert with it for years in the Marine Corps with A2 iron sights. Me either, just seemed to hit the target over and over. Strange. There is no problem hitting a full sized target. The problem is that it will not shoot 1 MOA. It is not designed to do that. |
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http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n128/mazawakhan/IMG_4203_zpsk7vicw8y.jpg 100yds M855 out of my Tavor with a TA-31A, and stock trigger. that's a horrible 13 round group |
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Funny, I had no problem qualifying expert with it for years in the Marine Corps with A2 iron sights. LOL. Thought I was the only one. Guys, service rifles have some fucked up muzzle crowns due to excessive cleaning. I recall my DI showing us how to use a steel cleaning rod to GRIND away the muzzle crown to clean it immaculately so it would pass the white glove/ qtip test. Several weeks after daily abusive cleaning, I shot 247 out of 250 at 200, 300, and 500 yards. Targets are 20" wide by 40" tall. At 4 MOA, (if my math is correct) would be a 20.94" circle of dispersion. |
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that's a horrible 13 round group Quoted:
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http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n128/mazawakhan/IMG_4203_zpsk7vicw8y.jpg 100yds M855 out of my Tavor with a TA-31A, and stock trigger. that's a horrible 13 round group I was zeroing my Acog. |
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I'm not a M855 fan either. Most of it flies like a car tire out of balance and the terminals are just about as dismal. I shoot irons, so I'm not expecting as small groups as most.
As mentioned the X-TAC is the best that I have found. It seems better than the other lovely offerings. Oh well, some rifles like it, some don't. Some trigger weights like it, some don't. Glad you could get it under control. |
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Funny, I had no problem qualifying expert with it for years in the Marine Corps with A2 iron sights. it is a garbage round that has been "good enough" since it's inception. Qualing expert is not that great of a feat to be honest, apply the fundamentals and you will qual expert. |