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Posted: 7/1/2003 12:07:27 PM EDT
From the Wall Street Journal June 30: Partial quote
BOSTON -- On a recent Saturday afternoon, John Banzhaf, a plus-size professor of law, finished off his chocolate fudge brownie, washed it down with a Diet Coke, and ambled up to the front of a packed Northeastern University lecture hall to talk about suing the food industry for making people fat. Professor Banzhaf, an architect of the tobacco lawsuits that cost Philip Morris and others hundreds of billions of dollars to settle five years ago, teaches a course in public interest law at George Washington University. He calls it his "sue the bastards" class, and students must file a lawsuit to receive a passing grade. A federal judge tossed out one of several Banzhaf suits against McDonald's back in January, ruling that it's not the law's place to protect people from their dietary excesses. Still, the professor is pressing on. Addressing a sympathetic audience here at the "First Annual Conference on Legal Approaches to the Obesity Epidemic," Mr. Banzhaf declared that, among others, Burger King, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken and Wendy's would be hearing from him soon. "Seven suits are in progress," he told those on hand, mostly trial lawyers and their potential expert witnesses in academia. "Three have been won, and four or five more are in the works."
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So this sack of s#!t is purposely using students to clog the courts with frivilous lawsuits in an attempt to put a drain on companies. Oh but of course it's "for the children" [puke]
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 12:12:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 12:18:31 PM EDT
What a POS. It makes sense though, job security and all...
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 12:21:56 PM EDT
I just found this. Here's the guy's website. [url]http://banzhaf.net/obesitylinks[/url] Oh and here's his email from the home page in case you're interested. [email]JBANZHAF@main.nlc.gwu.edu[/email]
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 12:24:01 PM EDT
heart attack ha ha ha
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 12:31:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: "Three have been won"? What three? Who was the no brain defense attorney who couldn't muster the intelligence to point out the idiocy of the suit's premise?
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"Hi, I'm Lionel Hutz. The judge here has had it in for me ever since I ran over his dog. Actually, replace the word accidentally with repeatedly, and dog with son." "This suit is just what I need to repair my shattered practice. Care for a belt of scotch? "Mr. Hutz it's 10:00 AM!" Yeah, but I haven't slept in days."
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 12:35:51 PM EDT
when fat is outlawed only criminals will be fat...
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 12:39:05 PM EDT
That is such a waste of time, I used to be fat, i didnt blame it on mcdonalds or buffet style restaraunts, nobody forces us to PAY to eat out. We can just as well eat something green and nasty. But oh well. I will just blame my parents i guess! :)
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 12:41:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BennyFranklin: ...teaches a course in public interest law at George Washington University. He calls it his "sue the bastards" class, and students must file a lawsuit to receive a passing grade... [puke]
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Yale, Stamford, Harvard, Columbia it ain't. GWU ranks somewhere down the list around number 20 in the law school rankings. While it's not exactly a TTT (third tier trash) law school, it isn't in the same league as HYS. I am certain the students who shell out on average 20+k per academic year at law school, appreciate the quality education they are receiving. It is no wonder there are no prerequisites (beyond an undergrad degree majoring in anything from basket weaving to whining)for law school. We currently have more laywers than lab rats in this country, and their count continues to grow. I am reassured that the future of law in this country is solid, based on the quality education at supposed top law schools. As for the professor, he's fat miserable man, who can't keep his mouth shut. TT [wave]
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 1:32:29 PM EDT
[url]http://banzhaf.net/pottyparity.html[/url] You gotta check this one out! The guy has a good side tho. He sued to get equal treatment for men in bars that give women free drinks1[;)]
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 1:46:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 2:00:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2003 2:04:57 PM EDT by nightstalker]
I think I can see where this guy is going. He will begain by claiming they are not labeling the food with enough information. The strategy will be pretty much the same as tobacco. "This food will make you fat" is not a label any fast food outlet wants on their food but this is the direction he will push. Jeez, he got millions on tobacco for his work and this just builds on the previous extortion. I suspect the 3 cases won involved making the fast food chains put more dietary information at the point of sale. Just a prelude to trying to pull the wool over the public's eyes and get more cash. These lawyers that got the tobacco settlement are a real danger to our country. The states that have gotten most of the money are spending it to balance deficits, not improve health. You'd think they'd sue about that....fat chance...they are in cahoots with the legislatures and AG's. Quite a Triad.
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 3:30:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: There's little practical real world difference in where people attended law school, helps with the job interviews and getting clerkships, though.
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Disagree. There is a vast "real" difference between attending Cooley and attending Yale. "Job interviews and clerkships" pave the way for where you want to practice. Which ultimately determines where you live, the hours you work, salary, bonuses, etc. Few TTT grads ever make it to Biglaw or have a prestigious law career. Education is a step to a career. Where you go to law school will start that career. In society lawyers will always be considered & consider themselves part of the "elite" just some more than others. That has been, is, & always will be the state of legal education & the legal profession. Those who attend top law schools have a far greater chance of success in prestigious legal careers. Most job offers for grads of third and fourth tier law schools will be local. Some lower ranked schools have bad reputations and some are not accredited. Some law school graduate students that only 40% of pass the bar exam. Others have very limited law libraries. All factors affect the quality of education at any school. It is not lawyers alone who suffer from school-oriented elitism. An engineer from MIT will be received more positively than an engineer from Appalachian State School of Electronics and Stuff. An MBA from Wharton (UPenn) is much more desirable than an MBA from the University of Tampa. TT
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 5:22:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 6:04:13 PM EDT by Happyshooter]
Hey TT, that's "The Thomas M. Cooley School of Law". I did my bar review class there after Mich, and I thought they were kidding about the wailing wall the same as we did at Hank Hutchins, until I saw some people crying. They gave out Fs like we did AA (affirmative action). Edited to correct syntax (drinking) and spell out what AA means.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 5:59:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Happyshooter: Hey TT, that's "The Thomas M. Cooley School of Law". I did my bar review class there after Mich, and I thought they were kidding about the wailing wall the same we we did at Hank Hutchins, until I saw some people crying. They gave out Fs like we did AA.
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[rofl2] "The Thomas M. Cooley School of Law" graduating Class of 2003. Proof positive that anyone can be a lawyer. TT [wave]
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 6:21:23 AM EDT
We should start sending e-mails to GWU about this tub of shit. As for the tobacco suits, I heard that before these suits, the taxes on tobacco made up for the health costs shouldered by the states. I'll have to dig that up.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 7:56:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 10:04:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Steve-in-VA:
Originally Posted By TitaniumT: "Job interviews and clerkships" pave the way for where you want to practice. Which ultimately determines where you live, the hours you work, salary, bonuses, etc. Few TTT grads ever make it to Biglaw or have a prestigious law career.
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Absolutely true, in the beginning, when you are looking for a job. However, when it comes to litigation, once you start practicing, where you went to school mounts to a big heaping mass of nothing. Once you start practicing, whether you're in an "elite" class or not will depend on your performance in the courtroom and your Martindale-Hubbell peer ratings. NOTHING ELSE really matters. A
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Where you went to law school largely determines where you will practise. If you went to a fourth tier school, it is unlikely you will be practising Biglaw. Instead you will be relegated to a working for a small town firm handling insignificant cases. And while your litigation ability may well be stellar, you will never be afforded the opportunity to work in an environment such as those who are Yale grads are. (Supreme court clerkships are likely out of the realm of possibility as well.) It is easy to excel if the bench mark is low as is the case at TTT schools. You may graduation first in your class and be on the law review, but if you're competing against people with 2.75 ug gpas and 150s LSAT scores, then you cannot compare yourself to the person who graduated first in his class from HLS. That said: that may be fine for many/most. Working slave hours for Biglaw firms like Wachtell or Skadden may not be what everyone wants. TT [wave]
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 10:34:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 10:40:59 AM EDT by Steve-in-VA]
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 11:20:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Steve-in-VA:
Originally Posted By TitaniumT: Where you went to law school largely determines where you will practise. If you went to a fourth tier school, it is unlikely you will be practising Biglaw. Instead you will be relegated to a working for a small town firm handling insignificant cases. And while your litigation ability may well be stellar, you will never be afforded the opportunity to work in an environment such as those who are Yale grads are.
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That's bullshit. As I said above, you are right about someone getting thier first job, but so far as actual trial practice or "Biglaw" (whatever that is) once you've been practicing a few years, where you went to school does not mean shit. If you are a good trial attorney and you collect your fees, everyone wants you nowadays. It's more about a business than a profession (sadly). Handling big cases and getting judgeships, including federal judgeships, does not have squat to do with where you went to school. But hey, you are right about a Supreme Court clerkship or getting your foot in the door of a big law firm right out of school (both very boring BTW). I have head hunters try and recruit me all the time- from "Biglaw" firms. I went to a good school, however, they are interested only in my trial practice as a litigator, my billing and my peer reviews in Martindale-Hubbell, not where I graduated, my grades or my frikin LSAT score- that is laughable at best. Again, if you are just starting out, those things matter, but only then. One of my best friends does a lot of recruiting for his firm (top 25 in the country)- he would tell you the same thing.
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Then why spend go to HYS or Columbia, UPenn, Michigan etc? Why not just get a free ride at Cooley or another TTT? If the quality of the education is the same, and the job prospects are the same, then why does elitism exist? Why do prelaw student scramble and obsess about LSAT scores and gpas? Why do they have others edit and write their personal statements and essays? If it's all the same in the end, what a waste of time! TT [wave]
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 12:19:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 12:24:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 1:20:30 PM EDT
I'm interviewing potential associates now. I am concerned about their intellectual horsepower, as evidenced by their grades. They have to want to do the kind of work we do at my firm. They have to be able to get along with people. If the new lawyer is a jerk, then clients probably won't like him/her and juries certainly won't. It would be nice if the candidate spoke Spanish. As long as the candidate went to an accredited law school, got good grades and passed the bar, it doesn't matter a whole lot which law school it was. Steve-in-Va, are you the NOVA lawyer who formerly practiced in Hawaii? I'm the guy in F'burg who was asking about arbitrators this AM.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 2:15:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 2:17:17 PM EDT by TitaniumT]
Originally Posted By Steve-in-VA: Wow, is that what I said, that it's all a "waste of time"? You reading the same post as me? One more time, IT MATTERS WHEN YOU FIRST GET OUT OF SCHOOL. The rest is up to you.
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Why do you feel the need to attempt to condescend to me? Are you feeling the need to send a little shit downstream today? Is it impossible for you to share ideas/opinions without attempting to berate someone? It's amusing but...
Let's see, just skimming . . . hmmm, Ilene Gotts, Georgetown Univ. (not even in the top 10), she's a partner. Let's look at some associates recently recruited . . . hmmm, Steven Kolleeny, University of Texas, Bert Wolff, Albany Law School (are they even ranked?), Jay Goffman, UNC- Chapel Hill (we use to be in the top 20, now we're floating somewhere around 25), Neil Rock, Fordham (not even in the top 30) . . . Anyway, you get he picture. Yes, the bigger firms have the Ivy League grads, but they also have a number of guys and gals who went to Boston College (22), UNC-CH, Univ. of Wash. etc . . .
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Not one of the schools you mentioned are TTTs. Sort by: Rank Top 100 1. Yale University (CT) 2. Stanford University (CA) 3. Harvard University (MA) 4. Columbia University (NY) 5. New York University 6. University of Chicago 7. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor   University of Pennsylvania 9. University of Virginia 10. Cornell University (NY)   University of California–Berkeley 12. Duke University (NC)   Northwestern University (IL) 14. Georgetown University (DC) 15. University of Texas–Austin 16. University of California–Los Angeles 17. Vanderbilt University (TN) 18. University of Southern California 19. University of Minnesota–Twin Cities   Washington and Lee University (VA) 21. University of Iowa 22. Boston College   George Washington University (DC)   University of Notre Dame (IN) 25. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign   Washington University in St. Louis 27. Emory University (GA) 28. Boston University   College of William and Mary (VA)   University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill 31. Brigham Young University (J. Reuben Clark) (UT)   Fordham University (NY)   University of California–Davis   University of Georgia   University of Wisconsin–Madison 36. Wake Forest University (NC) 37. University of California (Hastings) 38. Indiana University–Bloomington   Ohio State University (Moritz) 40. George Mason University (VA)   University of Colorado–Boulder   University of Connecticut   University of Utah (S.J. Quinney) 44. University of Arizona (Rogers) 45. Tulane University (LA)   University of Alabama   University of Florida (Levin)   University of Maryland   University of Washington 50. Southern Methodist University (TX) 51. Baylor University (TX)   University of Cincinnati   University of Kentucky   University of Pittsburgh 55. American University (Washington College of Law) (DC)   University of Tennessee–Knoxville 57. Cardozo-Yeshiva University (NY)   Case Western Reserve University (OH) 59. Arizona State University   Brooklyn Law School (NY)   University of Missouri–Columbia   University of Oklahoma   University of San Diego 64. Florida State University   Indiana University–Indianapolis   Temple University (Beasley) (PA)   University of Kansas   University of Nebraska–Lincoln 69. Illinois Institute of Technology (Chicago-Kent)   Lewis and Clark College (Northwestern) (OR)   Loyola Law School (CA)   Loyola University Chicago   St. John's University (NY)   University of Houston   University of Louisville (Brandeis) (KY)   University of New Mexico   Villanova University (PA) 78. Rutgers State University–Camden (NJ)   Rutgers State University–Newark (NJ)   University of Denver   University of Oregon   University of Richmond (VA)   University of South Carolina 84. Catholic University of America (DC)   University of Miami (FL) 86. Seton Hall University (NJ)   University at Buffalo (NY)   University of Hawaii 89. Northeastern University (MA)   University of Mississippi 91. Georgia State University   Marquette University (WI)   Mercer University (GA)   Santa Clara University (CA)   Seattle University   University of Arkansas–Fayetteville 97. Louisiana State University–Baton Rouge   Syracuse University (NY)   University of San Francisco   Wayne State University (MI) While I am certain there are lawyers that went to TTTs currently practising in some of the larger prestigious firms, I suspect that is the exception and not the rule.
Originally Posted by Catsmeat: I'm interviewing potential associates now. I am concerned about their intellectual horsepower, as evidenced by their grades. They have to want to do the kind of work we do at my firm. They have to be able to get along with people. If the new lawyer is a jerk, then clients probably won't like him/her and juries certainly won't. It would be nice if the candidate spoke Spanish. As long as the candidate went to an accredited law school, got good grades and passed the bar, it doesn't matter a whole lot which law school it was.
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Given equal grades and both being personable people, would you elect to hire a Cooley grad or a Harvard grad? TT
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 2:21:46 PM EDT
No shit? Hey, there's nothing like a good lawsuit to liven up the day!
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 3:26:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 3:37:49 PM EDT by Steve-in-VA]
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 3:50:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 3:56:17 PM EDT by TitaniumT]
Originally Posted By Steve-in-VA: TT, So TTT meaning "not in the top 100"? Is that what you were talking about? Not according to your posts regarding "Yale" and "Harvard" and the top ten schools you referenced. You said this:
And while your litigation ability may well be stellar, you will never be afforded the opportunity to work in an environment such as those who are [red]Yale[/red] grads are.
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So . . . I guess now you mean any of the top 100 ranked schools? That's what you meant to say when you said "Yale"? LOL.
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I stand by that comment. But many of my comments made specific references to TTTs, which you failed to address. Your Yale comment is simply ridiculous. Yale is in a league of its own. TTT is a common reference to third tier trash. Perhaps check the US News rankings for a clearer picture of which law schools are 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th tier - according to US News, if you believe them.
Wow, little touchy aren't we? I'm just correcting laughable statements (no shit, some of my law partners laughed out loud when they read your posts), sorry if I upset you. Is this where you tell me to "fuck my mother" is espanol? I can't wait for that . . .
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Your spanish is rusty too! I never said that! Actually if you bother to read your posts, you're the one who started flinging BS at me, not me towards you. I am glad I can amuse your fellow cubicle mates.
While I am certain there are lawyers that went to TTTs currently practising in some of the larger prestigious firms, I suspect that is the exception and not the rule.
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Hmm, see that quote above where you say [b]"you will[/b] [red]never[/red] [b]be afforded the opportunity . . ."[/b]? So now it's an exception to the rule? Good thing you never went to law school. Stick to medicine, "doc".
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With admission into law school as easy as obtaining a mediocre LSAT score, and the country filling more lawyers than lab rats, who knows who you might find as opposing council someday! Question for your brilliant legal mind: If what law school you go to does not matter once you're out practising for more than a year, then why does it matter for your first year? Could it be that your first year out lays the paving stones for the balance of your career to be built upon? If not, then why is the first year important? If your first year out does lay the groundwork for your future career and the first year is dependent on which law school you go to and how you do there, then how can it ultimately not matter? You admit you busted your ass for a decent (subjective) LSAT score so you could go to a decent law school and subsequently I assume this paved the way into a decent clerkship and your career was launched. I am assuming your Supreme Court clerkship and biglaw experience helped your career. Scroll back to where you stated they were "boring". Boring is a subjective term that could only be used if one experienced something personally. Or are you relating what others have told you? Now before you go and get your panties in a bunch, why not actually answer my questions with something other rhetoric and failed attempts at condescension. TT BTW how did you do on the games portion of the LSAT? Not well I suspect! [:D]
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 4:01:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 4:10:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 6:47:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 6:51:22 PM EDT by TitaniumT]
Originally Posted By Steve-in-VA: MAN, how did I miss this bit of brilliance?
Originally Posted By TitaniumT: Scroll back to where you stated they were "boring". Boring is a subjective term that could only be used if one experienced something personally.
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[ROFL2] Wow, seriously, don't go to law school. So "boring" is a subjective term that can only be "used" if "experienced"? M'kay, so if I were to extrapolate and use this little gem of an argument in the medical field, you cannot state a certain medical condition/disease is "painfull" unless you "experience" it yourself? I hope you're not an OBGYN!! [naughty] You must have really shitty bedside manner.
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Pain is subjective. I would never state that anything was or wasn't painful unless I had personally experienced it. I might state that based on the experiences of others a certain condition may be painful. But unless I've experienced something I generally don't assume that which others feel, I will as well. So yes, if you tell me something is boring, then I should be able to assume you've experienced it, versus telling me that you're colleagues tell you it is boring. Why not differentiate? Or was your response simply an attempt to negate my comments rather than present accurate information? As for my bedside manner, I sincerely hope you never find out, since in order to do so you would have to be in an unfortunate situation that I would not wish on anyone. TT BTW childbirth does not need to be painful if you're intelligent enough to explore alternatives such as regional anesthesia. Edited to add: It's unfortunate you continue to feel the need to attempt to condescend to me. Your pathetic attempts are only reflective of your own insecurities. It is apparent that you are incapable of presenting an argument without becoming personal so I won't respond to you further.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 6:58:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 7:06:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 7:07:00 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 3:21:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 4:36:14 AM EDT by Steve-in-VA]
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 4:50:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TitaniumT: Edited to add: It's unfortunate you continue to feel the need to attempt to condescend to me. Your pathetic attempts are only reflective of your own insecurities. It is apparent that you are incapable of presenting an argument without becoming personal so I won't respond to you further.
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No doubt, you'll be back for another dose of Steve-in-VA sooner or later. The pattern I've seen is that [i]you[/i] initiate the personal attacks and insults more often than not. The height of your conceit is only overshadowed by your apparent need for an audience. Do you derive some sort of perverse pleasure in being the provocateur? [>:/]
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 4:51:52 AM EDT
All things being equal, I'd hire the Harvard grad over the Cooley grad. It's just that when dealing with people all things are never equal.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 6:35:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TitaniumT: As for my bedside manner, I sincerely hope you never find out, since in order to do so you would have to be in an unfortunate situation that I would not wish on anyone. TT
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Yep, you as our Doctor. Jeez, STFU. Listen to the lawyers. It's like listening to an auto mechanic argue with a doctor about how their jobs are similar. The engine is the heart of the car. I went to lincoln tech, that's the Havard of auto mechanics. Your board certified? Me too, ASE.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:38:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 7:42:14 AM EDT by KODoc]
Originally Posted By Catsmeat: All things being equal, I'd hire the Harvard grad over the Cooley grad. It's just that when dealing with people all things are never equal.
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So it appears that, after all the blow-hard name calling is over, where you go to school does matter, at least to some managing partners..... The Lawyer's Credo: "If conflict exists, exploit it! If conflict doesn't exist, create it!" Too bad we can't generate some billable hours! [:D] Addendum: The above words of wisdom brought to you courtsey of the Nolo Press.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:52:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 12:01:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 12:43:44 PM EDT by Steve-in-VA]
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 2:37:18 PM EDT
Alright, the good news is that the school I went to is still top 10 (just barely!)! Speaking from my own experience, if I needed a litigation attorney, or was asked to refer someone to an attorney, I would pick an attorney who is effective in court, with a good track record, and a good reputation among judges and peers. Results and reputation count way more than the law school you went to.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 5:12:57 PM EDT
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