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Posted: 6/29/2003 5:32:53 PM EDT
OK, I was going down 99W today and there were three vehicals behind me, with one on my ass. Two were in the "slower" lane with the guy's windshield probably at my trunk line and a car behind him. Anyways, I was passing the dude because there was a lifted truck on my ass. I was going no more than 67, more likely closer to 65. Anyways, I dont even see the cop until i pass him (hidden behind bushes on a blind type area). He pulls out, all of the other cars go into one lane and slow down real quick. I let off and the cop speeds up behind me. He then follows me for 1/4 or so miles and there go his lights. Says he has me on radar going 71. I told him I'm pretty sure I wasnt going 71MPH and he goes "yes you were". Anyways, it tuned out to be a 109.something TAX(ticket). I've never gotten a ticket in my life before and I'm not about to start now. How should I go about beating this? I do NOT want it on my record, even if it means I must hire a lawyer. On the bottom of the ticket there it says the address to the location of my court appearance is scratched out with a pen. There is a little note above it and says "see bak". I turn it over and there is a sticker with a different court address. I'm thinking I might have some kind of technicality here??? My copy of the ticket also reads that I weigh 35lbs. I dont think he pressed hard enough to get the first digit. How do I make this disappear? Any and all legitimate advice is appreciated!
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 5:35:28 PM EDT
Laser or radar?
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 5:47:16 PM EDT
Radar...
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 5:50:26 PM EDT
Doesn't sound like any technicalities to me. Send it in and wait for your court date.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 5:54:57 PM EDT
Silly peasant, just pay your tax.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 5:58:15 PM EDT
It is critical that this ticket be beaten...
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 6:01:07 PM EDT
Just go to traffic skool and it will be gone from your record if your state allows it.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 6:03:13 PM EDT
File motions for records of the officer's training with the radar unit he's using. Ask for a copy of the log to see when of if it has been calibrated/recalibrated. In short ask for everything concerning the officer, the radar unit and his training on said equipment. TS
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 6:11:45 PM EDT
Tigerstripe is right. If the Radar gear is past due for recalibration or if the officer is past due for retraining, you go scott free. BRING IT UP. But make it a surprise. Dont give them time to FORGE anything. Put them on the spot.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 6:14:27 PM EDT
When all that happens and I go into court and do what? Just say I want to file a motion to get those records? Then does court get out and then start back up at a later date so I can review them? Never been to court before...
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 6:15:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2003 6:56:58 PM EDT by azcopwannabee]
sorry, dupe post...
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 6:29:56 PM EDT
Critical to beat?? If you really must beat it, hire an attorney. If you really have never had a ticket this may be a way for your attorney to negotiate traffic school for a dropping the summons on the moving violation. You don't have the ability to negotiate with the state's attorney. File a motion for the calibration records per the court's instructions. Some will let you ask for it on the spot, other's will disallow those motions on the trial date. If this is CRITICAL, which seems odd, then you need someone who knows their way around the traffic court. Hire someone who gets paid only if you walk with "X" as the outcome. There are those types out there.....
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 6:33:18 PM EDT
ComputerGuy I hope you appreciate this because every time I post this I get flamed by some JBT here or on other boards for giving this info out. Most states have rules and regs about the height requirement for all traffic signs, if a traffic sign (speeding, stop sign or any other traffic sign) is not above the required height [b]it is as if it [red]did not[/red] exist[/b]. The law here in New Jersey says the bottom of the sign must be at least 7 feet above the surface of the ground it is planted in. First look up your state laws and regs concerning the traffic sign height and then go measure the height of the sign that was just before where you were tagged for speeding, if it below the state min. then you have a winner. You still might have to hire a lawyer to make sure the Judge follows the law but you should win. I have beaten at least 5 tickets on these grounds and the local prosecutors don't want the case being brought in open court because everyone in the court room will ask for an ajournment so they can go measure the sign that they got ticketed for. You will need your state DOT not the federal one. I will also tell you that the public works guys that install these signs usually know the height requirements too, so if you see some of these guys putting in traffic signs stop and ask them.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 6:33:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: Just go to traffic skool and it will be gone from your record if your state allows it.
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What was the speed limit? Just explain what happened with the judge and tell him that you have never had a ticket before and then, ask him if you can attend traffic school. Some citiies have the class on line so, you wiill just pay for the class.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 6:38:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TigerStripe: File motions for records of the officer's training with the radar unit he's using. Ask for a copy of the log to see when of if it has been calibrated/recalibrated. In short ask for everything concerning the officer, the radar unit and his training on said equipment. TS
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You better hope for more than that if you plan on winning. In FL, that is SOP for all officers going to court regarding a speeding/RADAR/LASER ticket. Before testimony, the officer MUST show certification, calibration records, and RADAR/LASER log. After that is done, then the testimony begins. There is no "motion" to be made to see these items. The officer will present them up front. As far as surprising anyone, that won't do it. The "technicalities" you pointed out may not be enough to get the ticket dismissed. It could also be that the "copy" you received may not have completely recorded what is printed on the original ticket. Even if a major mistake is made on the ticket you received, such as date, time, or whatever, the officer may amend the citation to reflect whatever information he wishes to change, even the charge, so long as it is done prior to him swearing in. You mention a truck behind you. What kind of car were you in?
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 6:48:26 PM EDT
A few here are right. [b]Hire a Lawyer if it is a must![/b] Cross check to insure the section (30.10.250 or whatever) you are charged with is applicable. I must maintain a clean record, but also move down the road. There are lawyers who specialize in speeding tickets, mine is 99%. He charges 25-40 bucks over the ticket price, which is more than worth it to me. He does do the equipment & officer paperwork trick, but that is just for starters. There are people who can make this go away, money is the only thing you have to give, [i]to the right person[/i].
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 6:50:52 PM EDT
Anybody know where I can find the speed limit sign height requirements in oregon? The speed limit was 55MPH. It wasnt a truck but a lifted blazer with big tires. I was in an older BMW 3 series.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 6:53:23 PM EDT
So what you're saying is, you got a ticket for speeding, and...you were speeding. Is there a problem with that? The discrepancy between the ticketed speed and what you thought you were doing COULD be a problem with the calibration of YOUR speedometer. Take the ticket to court. Odds are, the officer won't show up to defend such a relatively small speeding ticket, in which case you win and nothing goes on your driving record. At worst, you'll pay the fine. You'll do that anyway if you don't fight it. !!!!NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!!! let someone push you faster than you want to go, tailgater or not. If your bumper bunny is in that much of a freaking hurry, he'll pass you eventually, and believe me, you want a dickhead like that out in front of you where you can keep an eye on him in the first place! Here's a thought: Your car is a BMW, right? Well, you can say that the cop just MADE UP the ticket, because who in their right mind would believe that a BMW would be on the road instead of in the shop? [buttkick] What does a Florida cop do when he clocks a BMW doing 75 MPH in a 45 zone? He gives the tow truck driver a ticket, of course! CJ
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 7:03:58 PM EDT
FORGET IT! You were going an admitted 67 in a 55 and you want to fight the 71 in court? Cry me a friggin river, pay the fine and travel the speed limit. CG in court "your honor, I was not traveling 71 miles an hour, it was at the most 67. I really need to get out of this." HEHEHEHEHE!HAHAHAHAHA!
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 7:05:46 PM EDT
get a lawyer and take it to court. the lawyer will talk to the judge and ask him to take it easy on you for whatever reason. ideally it never goes to court. they know it will be more trouble than its worth for them and make a quick deal with your lawyer. sometimes its a reduced ticket or downgrade to a non moving offense. this is how it worked for me. i fought it hard becasue i was looking at losing my liscense for a long time.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 7:14:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thedave1164: FORGET IT! You were going an admitted 67 in a 55 and you want to fight the 71 in court? Cry me a friggin river, pay the fine and travel the speed limit.
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Hey Dave the guy has a clean driving record and it is important to him to keep it that way, Lend a hand or STFU,if the sign is not legal then he broke no law and we will see this week if he does his homework. And don't give me that bullshit about he broke the law he should pay for it either, because if the sign is not legal then he broke no law,did he?
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 7:47:18 PM EDT
Computer guy- I will explain alot of stuffin a moment, but give you the summary up front. I live in Oregon, and got a similar ticket a year or so ago. You are hosed trying to fight this on your own. Get the lawyer, or go talk to a court clerk about the traffic school option. If i remember correctly, when you go to traffic school THE TICKET DOES NOT GO ON YOUR RECORD! This is the easiest and cheapest method to deal with it. It doesn't affect your insurance (probably wouldn't do anything to your rates anyhow if this is your first ticket). and it won't affect any driving employment problems. Also- double check everything i tell you. I was told alot of the same stuff as you, only found out it didn't really apply to Oregon drivers in court. IIRC, YMMV, etc, etc. I am no lawyer, but i did have some good recommendations and tried to fight it myself. Didn't do me any good with the judge i got. Now, i suspect you are ticketed under Violatin of the Basic Rule, often abreviated v.b.r. it states ORS 811.100. Violation of basic speed rule; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of violating the basic speed rule if the person drives a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent, having due regard to all of the following: (a) The traffic. (b) The surface and width of the highway. (c) The hazard at intersections. (d) Weather. (e) Visibility. (f) Any other conditions then existing. (2) The following apply to the offense described in this section: (a) The offense is as applicable on an alley as on any other highway. (b) Speeds that are prima facie evidence of violation of this section are established by > ORS 811.105. (c) This section and > ORS 811.105 establish limitation on speeds that are in addition to maximum speeds established and subject to penalty as described in the following: (A) A federal maximum speed limit under > ORS 811.110. (B) Maximum speeds for motor trucks and passenger transport vehicles under > ORS 811.115. (C) Maximum speeds on ocean shores under > ORS 811.120. (D) A maximum speed limit for rural interstate highways under > ORS 811.112. (E) A maximum speed limit in an urban area under > ORS 811.123. (3) The offense described in this section, violating the basic speed rule, is a Class B traffic infraction. What the hell does all that mean? that you have to prove your case for driving above the posted speed limits. The actual posted speed limits may be legally exceeded if you fulfill all of the above. Policemen on the east side of the cascades generally allow higher speeds than in the valley, so that is against you. (I live in Bend) driving on 99 doesn't help, i remember that as being a rural highway with lots of local traffic.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 8:02:00 PM EDT
sorry, got distracted. about the radar calibration, certification, etc. I brought that up in my hearing, the police officer said he had calibrated it that morning. The judge took that to be true. He did not say he recorded it anywhere. anything that you say is in disagreement with the officer will not be regarded at all. The police officer is a professional, you know. it is your word agains his, and you lose. That is why i said get the lawyer, or go to diversion/ traffic school. Don't try to fight it yourself, if it is really important. Oh, and if you just want to blow it off cause it won't really affect your everyday life, just sign it as being guilty (which you are), go to the clerk and politely ask for a reduction. It will probably be 80-120$. I fought mine, and the judge gave me the maximum fine, or over it for wasting everyone's time. I'm no sure about how much it shouldv'e been, but i remember around $3-400. As other people will tell you, unless you have a real good case of passing because you were scared of being in bodily harm from a tailgater, the fact that someone was tailgating you is no excuse for speeding (in the laws eyes) I suspect you have a weak case for this if you didn't mention something to the officer at the time of the ticket. because Oregon has the VBR, you have to do more of a burden of proof than normal, i think. It is worded that you have to prove what you were doing was safe, not that you got caught doing it. This paragraph is a little iffy, just what i have gleaned from reading the statutes, etc. If you can get off on the sign height, that would sure work, but i would still run it by a lawyer if that is what you want to do.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 8:02:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By thedave1164: FORGET IT! You were going an admitted 67 in a 55 and you want to fight the 71 in court? Cry me a friggin river, pay the fine and travel the speed limit.
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Hey Dave the guy has a clean driving record and it is important to him to keep it that way, Lend a hand or STFU,if the sign is not legal then he broke no law and we will see this week if he does his homework. And don't give me that bullshit about he broke the law he should pay for it either, because if the sign is not legal then he broke no law,did he?
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Sorry if you don't like what my response is, but having lived a good portion of my adult life in Oregon, specifically in the Willamette valley, there is no place that I recall on HWY 99E/W where the speed limit is above 55. I find it some what strange that so many would want him to get away with breaking the law, after all, HE ADMITTED that he did break the law........ FWIW the last speeding ticket I got in Oregon, was on HWY 99, just outside of Canby for 71 in a 55.........
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 8:04:32 PM EDT
If you can't pass them at 55 mph,, you do not need to pass them! The judge will find you guilty, and your wating his time, the cops time, and the state's attorney's time. If you were doing 65 in a 55 that is speeding. Pay the fine and learn your lesson. If it is so critical that you don't get a ticket, drive like you won't get a ticket!
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 8:14:03 PM EDT
My ticket was speeding on a '98 CBR 900RR, a straight up copy of a race bike. we were going well over the speed limit, maybe 75 if i remember. The whole thing that really pissed me off is that some motor home guy can be going 60, and a fully loaded trucker, and they will never get a second look. I could be going 90 and would probably still be able to outbrake them and outmanuver them. I have a better field of view, and am not distracted by anyone in the cab, or my little kickdog, or whatever. It was on a nice long straightaway, with no traffic, with wide shoulders, sunny, good pavement, etc. I said all this and that i had a lot of certificates from safety training organizations. None of it mattered. The policeman said it was to fast, the judge said it was to fast. at that point i was pretty upset, and asked in all honesty if we have this rule, what speed above 55 would have been "safe" in that situation. They had no interest in trying to answer me, the judge just said if i thought motorcycles should be exempt from speeding laws to pass a bill in the legislature. I don't think he paid any attention to what i said. I was fairly coherent presenting my facts, but i don't think it mattered at all. The whole affair left me with a real bitter taste in my mouth.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 8:16:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2003 8:19:53 PM EDT by danonly]
Just to repeat to you guys talking about speeding- Oregon has a special rule, called the basic rule, that allows us to legally go above the posted speed limit. There are a whole lot of limitations to it, but the posted speed limit IS NOT the absolute "limit" oh yeah, and when you go to court to fight it, there is no prosecuting attny, just you, the judge and the policeman. It is kind of like a fact finding discussion. The judge lays out the procedure, the policeman tells his part of the story, you tell your part of the story, you both get to ask each other questions. then the judge makes his decision
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 8:30:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2003 11:24:51 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
The following advice is dependent on being super polite & courteous to the officer at the time that you are stopped & issued the ticket... Plead not guilty, show up for the assigned court date (in other words, don't postpone the date... cops are on to this ploy & will not look upon it favorably), and be at least a half-hour early. Point is, the LEOs' who are scheduled to appear will be milling about outside of the courtroom. The issuing officer’s name should appear on the ticket. Identify him in the crowd (ask another cop or bailiff if need be), approach him and introduce yourself in a professional & formal manner, explain why you are there, and respectfully ask him if there is any way that you might be able to plea the ticket down to a non points offense before you both go in front of the judge. My personal experience is that if you come across like a normal, law abiding human being who just happened to be speeding on a particular day, the cop will [i]usually[/i] cut you a major break! Sure... you'll still have to pay a fine, but you [i]were[/i] speeding after all. YMMV, but I'll tell you this, I will never again plead guilty to a traffic violation without going to court, & doing the above. Good luck.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 8:35:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By danonly: ... If i remember correctly, when you go to traffic school THE TICKET DOES NOT GO ON YOUR RECORD!
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As far a FL goes, if you attend traffic school, the fact that you got a ticket stays on your record. The important thing, however, is that the record will read "Adjudication Witheld", so long as you satisfied the terms of driving school. That won't affect your insurance, but it will still show up on your record. I just wanted to clarify that. Someone mentioned that such cases don't really go to court. Well, there is traffic court. This type of court deals with nothing but traffic related issues, so if you get a ticket and chose to go to court, then expect to go to court. It used to be that a lot of people would set up a court date and expect that the officer wouldn't bother to show up. Unless the officer has a good, documented reason why he wasn't in court, he will be there. Department's receive a copy of the same subpoena the officer does and if an officer fails to show up in court without a good reason, then he may face disciplinary action. Officers know that almost everything they do could very well end up in court. Going to court may scare some rookies, but it's old hat for a veteran officer. Besides, many of them look forward to court as a way to get off the road for a while or to collect a few extra dollars in overtime/mileage. You've already admitted that you were speeding. Probably your best course of action now would be to hire an attorney. They don't "fight" for you. For the most part, all they do is talk with the officer before court and see if he will agree to a deal, such as "standard fines and court cost and adjudication witheld". A lot of traffic lawyers go into court on any given day with a dozen or so "clients" and make deals with the officers. So long as the officer and lawyer agree, then the judge usually allows the deal without hearing any testimony. I know a lot of lawyers have gotten the nickname Monty Hall, of Let's Make a Deal. Many of them will tell you that they can keep the points of your record, but that you'll still have to pay a fine. This is what most of their clients agree to, cuz they don't want the points. I've only seen one speeding ticket go to trial with a lawyer. The only reason it went to trial was because the officer refused to agree to a deal (driver was an assh*le), so the lawyer was forced to at least try to get the ticket dismissed. Lawyer lost. Anyway, unless you really have evidence that the ticket was written in error or can prove that you weren't speeding, most likely you will lose. An attorney seems like your best bet as far as keeping the points off. Just remember, for the most part, he is not vigorously defending you, but trying to work out a deal for you.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 8:38:30 PM EDT
If it is real important to keep a clean record, try NOT SPEEDING. If you want to speed, keep it under 10 over. Only in a 35 will an officer be in a hurry to pull you over for that (or a school zone). As for fighting tickets, sure, you can get a lot of milage and leeway from the involved parties. However, is it really worth the time? I don't make a ton of cash, but I would rather spend the money most of the time because I KNOW I get a ticket less than .0004% of the time i speed....those odds favor the player, not the house.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 9:29:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thedave1164 Sorry if you don't like what my response
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[red]Thats not it at all, read the rest below[/red]
Originally Posted By thedave1164 I find it some what strange that so many would want him to get away with breaking the law, after all, HE ADMITTED that he did break the law..........
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[red]Now for the last time , if the sign is illegal then there is no violation and he didn't break any law,PERIOD! Whats so hard to understand that signs and other rules and laws have to follow the [b]law[/b] and be correct or they do not exist.[/red]
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 9:51:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By danonly: Just to repeat to you guys talking about speeding- Oregon has a special rule, called the basic rule, that allows us to legally go above the posted speed limit. There are a whole lot of limitations to it, but the posted speed limit IS NOT the absolute "limit"
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If you really read the basic rule crap is DOES NOT allow you to exceed the posted speed limit in Oregon. "The Basic Rule does not allow motorists to drive faster than the posted speed, nor does it set absolute speeds designated for all conditions.......Sudden braking at 25 mph on ice or snow in a speed zone posted at 30 mph can cause the driver to lose control of the vehicle. In this case, the ice or snow has made the posted speed unreasonable. The posted speed is in violation of the Basic Rule" [URL]http://www.odot.state.or.us/traffic/speed.htm[/URL] Sorry for your ticket CG. You were going at least 10 over. Fight it however you wish, I hope you get off, but I don't think it's likely. You live around a town that is right along 99w (the home of John's greasy spoon resturant) they know this, and you know this. They know it's 55 and so did you. Good luck though really... most people drive at least that fast through there. You just drew the short straw.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 9:57:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By OSUBeaver: If you really read the basic rule crap is DOES NOT allow you to exceed the posted speed limit in Oregon. "The Basic Rule does not allow motorists to drive faster than the posted speed, nor does it set absolute speeds designated for all conditionss
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have to disagree with you on this one, as a few police officers have told me explicitly that it allows you to go over the limit. In the valley they said +10 max, it was variable out here in the wide open desert.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 10:20:15 PM EDT
You might inquire about a 'deferred' offense. Possibly paying a $50 fine and not getting any moving violations for 6 months...then, the ticket/offense is expunged from your record. This is available in Washington State ONCE every 7 years. It was offered to me by the magistrate and I accepted, complied, and was rewarded by having that off of my record - Then, I got a doggone speeding ticket for 9 mph over the limit not too long ago! That one I had no argument for and just paid the $86. Life's a bitch sometimes.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 10:25:15 PM EDT
Find out the make and model of the radar unit. This might require a subpoena. Ask for calibration records for the specific unit too. Most calibrations done daily are with a simple tuning fork, but the factory (MPH, Kustom) often requires yearly certification that requires the unit be sent into the factory or having a factory rep sent to the agency. If you were in a "crowd" of vehicles you might be able to create enough smoke and mirrors to convince the judge the radar tracked and measured a different vehicle in the crowd, not yours. Radar tends to measure the biggest or fastest target. Or, ask for traffic school, which will probably remove the cite from your record. Make sure not to get caught within two years, or traffic school will not be an option next time.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 10:26:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By danonly:
Originally Posted By OSUBeaver: If you really read the basic rule crap is DOES NOT allow you to exceed the posted speed limit in Oregon. "The Basic Rule does not allow motorists to drive faster than the posted speed, nor does it set absolute speeds designated for all conditionss
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have to disagree with you on this one, as a few police officers have told me explicitly that it allows you to go over the limit. In the valley they said +10 max, it was variable out here in the wide open desert.
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I know what you are saying, but really look at what is says as stated in the drivers manual. It is all a bunch of ambiguous stuff, but if you put these two together they could ticket you for 1 over or 30 under if they wanted to. It's the "even if's" or "some areas" that leave it wide open. In the end it's up to them to prove it, if you fight it. The Basic Rule Law The basic rule states you must drive at a speed that is reasonable and prudent at all times. The basic rule applies on all streets and highways, even where maximum speed limits are also set by law or posted. To obey the basic rule, you need to think about your speed in relation to other traffic (including pedestrians and bicycles), the surface and width of the road, hazards at intersections, weather, visibility and any other conditions that could affect safety. If you drive at a speed that is unsafe for existing conditions in any area, even if you are driving slower than a designated or posted speed or a maximum limit, you are violating the basic rule. Maximum Limits In addition to the basic rule, Oregon has maximum speed limits in some areas or on some types of roads. Limits, in effect, put a ceiling on the speed considered safe for the area. If you drive at a speed above those limits, you may be cited. [url]http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/37.pdf[/url]
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 11:14:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy: Hey Dave the guy has a clean driving record and it is important to him to keep it that way, Lend a hand or STFU,if the sign is not legal then he broke no law and we will see this week if he does his homework. And don't give me that bullshit about he broke the law he should pay for it either, because if the sign is not legal then he broke no law,did he?
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Just out of curiosity, if there is no sign that says "DO NOT MURDER" and I shoot someone, Is that legal?? He says he admitted to speeding, guess what... ... He broke the law. I will help if I can but the statement you said that "if the sign is not legal then he broke no law" does not hold water... HE DID in fact break the law, if the sign is not right, he is let off on a technicality. Still doesnt mean he is innocent by ANY means. Second, If he really doesnt want it on his record then take the "Traffic School" route. Yes it is expensive and YES it is a pain in the ass but as the saying goes, you do the crime, do the time. i was pulled over my share of times and 100% of the time I was pulled over, I was caught dead to rights. some cops were cool and let me go with a warning and some got me at 5 miles over the speed limit and ticketed my ass. Friend of mine who is a cop told me: Think of the percentage of time you speed vs the times you were caught... pretty small ratio if you think about it huh? Speaking of which, I havent been pulled over in a while... guess I am due again.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 11:35:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 12:06:22 AM EDT
Those saying he broke the law, etc. You guys are [b]that[/b] law and order? Also, did he break the law or a regulation? TS
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 12:11:24 AM EDT
Actually I had just glaced at the speedo right as I saw the cop out of the corner of my eye. Call me a liar all you want, but I'm not lying.
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 12:49:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ComputerGuy: Actually I had just glaced at the speedo right as I saw the cop out of the corner of my eye. Call me a liar all you want, but I'm not lying.
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Is your speedometer more accurate than radar? The speed limit was 55. By your account your speed was 67. By the officers account it was 71. So in essence your arguement isn't that you weren't speeding, just the degree to which you were speeding. Sorry if it was painful as I pointed out the obvious. I don't think anyone has called you a liar, or even said you "shaded" the truth. But a lot of people are just jumping straight from the 55-67/71 arguement. Wait, aren't you the guy that has enough bad luck for 10 guys? You need to slow down, I'm sure something is instants away from breaking, falling, sliding, banging off or into your car. Geez man c'mon [:D]
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 1:35:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2003 1:43:31 AM EDT by SeaDweller]
Originally Posted By OKLAHOMA_LAWMAN:
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: Just go to traffic skool and it will be gone from your record if your state allows it.
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What was the speed limit? Just explain what happened with the judge and tell him that you have never had a ticket before and then, ask him if you can attend traffic school. Some citiies have the class on line so, you wiill just pay for the class.
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Traffic skool is really your best option. If you challenge it in court and lose you forfeit your chance to go to traffic skool. At least that's the way it is around here. If you go to traffic skool the point will not show up on your record so the insurance won't know about it. Thus keeping your rates down. I'm sure most states allow the point to disappear. You will still have to pay the ticket and court fees which should run about $30.00.
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 1:40:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 1:48:10 AM EDT
I don't really see how it is a bullshit speeding ticket? All this talk about gauging the radar unit and how accurate it is has me wondering, how accurate is your spedometer and when is the last time you had it calibrated? Was it calibrated at an approved location. FWIW if I was a judge and you came through my court tying up resourses and costing the taxpayers money because you didn't want a ticket I would give you the maximum punishment allowed by law.
Says he has me on radar going 71. I told him I'm pretty sure I wasnt going 71MPH and he goes "yes you were".
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You should have said "no, I was going 67, I saw my speedometer. Then he would have let you off. [whacko][LOL]
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 1:51:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By danonly: My ticket was speeding on a '98 CBR 900RR, a straight up copy of a race bike. we were going well over the speed limit, maybe 75 if i remember. The whole thing that really pissed me off is that some motor home guy can be going 60, and a fully loaded trucker, and they will never get a second look. I could be going 90 and would probably still be able to outbrake them and outmanuver them. I have a better field of view, and am not distracted by anyone in the cab, or my little kickdog, or whatever. It was on a nice long straightaway, with no traffic, with wide shoulders, sunny, good pavement, etc. I said all this and that i had a lot of certificates from safety training organizations. None of it mattered. The policeman said it was to fast, the judge said it was to fast. at that point i was pretty upset, and asked in all honesty if we have this rule, what speed above 55 would have been "safe" in that situation. They had no interest in trying to answer me, the judge just said if i thought motorcycles should be exempt from speeding laws to pass a bill in the legislature. I don't think he paid any attention to what i said. I was fairly coherent presenting my facts, but i don't think it mattered at all. The whole affair left me with a real bitter taste in my mouth.
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[LOL] I don't agree with this law judge. I am sure you have never heard this before so I will now explain why I find it injust.
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 2:12:45 AM EDT
Just get a lawyer who specializes in driving violations. You probably won't ever have to talk to the judge. Let the lawyer do all of the looking into the calibration issues, etc. and the talking. If *YOU* do the talking, look at getting clubbed in the head by the bailiffs and spending time in jail ;) You will probably get out of it for your lawyer fees and court costs. Ask around about the lawyer, don't go for the fancy looking yellow pages ad. :)
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 3:22:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: Take the ticket to court. Odds are, the officer won't show up to defend such a relatively small speeding ticket, in which case you win and nothing goes on your driving record.
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[b]DO NOT[/b] listen to this. Do you think that the cop just came up with the court date off the top of his head? That is his next scheduled day in traffic court. That is his job during that time and he is paid to show up for court to testify against you if it is needed. It is rare in most instances that the police don't show up for court. If you want to get the ticket quashed then you need to hire a lawyer. That is the end of the story. You can go out measuring signs, making up a defense and all of this other nonsense, but if the judge decides to find you guilty anyway, then you have very little recourse other than hiring a lawyer and suing the city/state.
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 4:09:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DrFrige: Just out of curiosity, if there is no sign that says "DO NOT MURDER" and I shoot someone, Is that legal?
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Of couse, murder is immoral, and going X miles per hour over the limit is not... I see no problem with trying to weasel out of traffic tickets when the offense was not endangering anyone.
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 5:47:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2003 5:49:51 AM EDT by cmjohnson]
Ponyboy, I've never disagreed with you before, but in this case, I will, because it's a field I have some little experience in. YES, DO listen to my advice. I've taken two tickets to court (both low value, one wasn't even a moving violation) and in both cases, I won because the cop didn't show up. MOST people that I know who took tickets to court won for the same reason. I'd say two thirds of them, if not more. The local PD's are too busy to pull officers off the streets to defend tickets when the time invested in that defense is sufficient to write several more tickets worth more money, or, heaven forbid, they could actually spend the time pursuing dangerous criminals instead. Here's the plan: Take it to court. IF the cop shows up to defend the ticket, you STILL might win, (but probably not unless you can prove that the stop was in violation of the procedures set forth in law that govern traffic stops...like the radar calibration issue), and even if you lose, in most states you STILL have the option of taking a driver improvement course so you get no points on your license, or you could just suck it up like a man and pay the fine. Winning the case (by the cop not showing up) costs you NOTHING but a little time, and doesn't interfere with ANY other option you have. And it's the ONLY one that won't cost you anything. Damn straight, you fight it!!! Only a fool would do otherwise. It doesn't hurt your other options and can result in your skating right out of it. What sensible person wouldn't take it? CJ
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 6:08:02 AM EDT
By the time you actually get the ticket, chances are you're screwed. Your only prayer to get out of the ticket for free is to try some horseshit technicality like [b]jrzy[/b] recommends, or trying to plead the thing down, or hope the cop forgets that he's supposed to appear in court for those 132 tickets he wrote six week ago. If you want to get out of the ticket, hire a lawyer to plead the thing down to an equipment violation. It will cost you more than the original ticket. All the state is looking for at this point is the money; there is no salient interest in "punishing" you for your stupid driving behavior. Not in the least. If there were, the state would write about 45,932 tickets an hour for "inattentive driving." We'd all get one, too.
Originally posted by ComputerGuy: Actually I had just glaced at the speedo right as I saw the cop out of the corner of my eye.
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Furthermore, [b]ComputerGuy[/b], although you were looking at your speedometer when the cop pulled out to bag you, your speed was already in the gun. He's not shooting your when you're abeam of his position, he's shooting you when you're 1/8 mile or so up the road. Hire a lawyer. Pay $300 or so, and you're done.
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 6:18:48 AM EDT
Once the dust has settled: Valentine One for RADAR Lidatek for LIDAR Jay
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