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Posted: 6/24/2003 1:41:24 PM EDT
Personally, I just don't think I could deal with it. [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030623/capt.1056330328.argentina_conjoined_twins_edb101.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 1:43:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 1:44:37 PM EDT
Which "one"?
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 1:46:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 1:47:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 1:55:27 PM EDT
Does it involve selling it to a Freakshow?
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 1:59:02 PM EDT
If my girlfriend has two heads, does that mean I've participated in a bunch of 3-ways??? And no, I'm not talking about a big head/little head tranny situation, so don't even think about it you sickos!!!
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 2:01:59 PM EDT
Please add the following option to the poll: [ x ] Shoot my nuts off.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 2:04:47 PM EDT
Two heads are better than one.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 2:04:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: May I edit your poll to add a possible third option?
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[size=6]So, you're the one!?![/size=6]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 2:05:21 PM EDT
IBTL.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 2:22:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LotBoy: Two heads are better than one.
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[LOL] CR
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 2:24:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 2:29:42 PM EDT
Yeah, but that's the easy answer.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 2:49:00 PM EDT
Nature abhors abnormalities.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:01:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:04:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:08:43 PM EDT
Um, he/she is/are still a life. Are we so quick to kill that which is not "perfect"? Sure, the baby/ies will most likely have a tough life, but who are we to judge if that life is worth living?
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:12:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:14:27 PM EDT
Sorry, anyone saying they wouldn't abort has something seriously wrong with them. The viability of a child like that out of the womb is slight. The chance of a painful birth and death on both the mother and father is significant, not to mention its just cruel. Why inflict pain on a family to just let it be born to let it die??? So sad.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:15:31 PM EDT
I wonder how amnio could detect such a thing? Unfortunately, you're more likely to recongize the problem later, during the structural ultrasound. By then, it's second trimester. Tough call.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:16:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:19:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ColonelKlink: Whoa fathers give birth too? What planet are you from? Beatlegeuse 5?
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Think outside physical pain, which is insignificant. Think EMOTIONAL and PSYCHOLOGICAL PAIN, sort of like when your mom and dad molested you as a child and you played with dolls "inappropriately" later on.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:22:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2003 3:23:52 PM EDT by Andreuha]
It is extremely uncommon for a two-headed human to survive past the toddler stage, and I have yet to hear of a two-headed human(s) living to their teenage years (same goes for non-human animals). I'd abort. The kid(s) will most likely live a couple of years at best. Save myself, and the kid(s) the suffering. Same goes for other deformities that would only cause suffering. Edit: By the time Ill be looking to have kids, Ill be able to test the kids DNA for problems. Thats something else I could consider.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:23:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:28:46 PM EDT
What does a babbling prick sound like?
Originally Posted By ColonelKlink: Damn lawyers. What are you gonna offer to sue the doctors because of this genetic accident. And anyone who dies as the result of emotional damge is a pussy.
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THERE WE GO!!! Who said anyone would die as a result of emotional damage? The only reference I made to death is, "The chance of a painful birth and death..." which refers to the birth and death of the baby, which would have a significant emotional and psychological impact on the parents. Dumbass.[:P]
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 4:25:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ratters: Um, he/she is/are still a life. Are we so quick to kill that which is not "perfect"? Sure, the baby/ies will most likely have a tough life, but who are we to judge if that life is worth living?
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I'd be willing to make that very difficult call.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 4:39:03 AM EDT
There's no doubt that it's an extremely difficult situation. However, as was brought up in a thread a month or so ago, a couple years ago I saw a piece on one of these shows like 20/20 about these conjoined twin girls. They were virtually in this condition. To appearances they seemed to be a two-headed person (two arms, two legs, I don't remember about internal organs). The one on the left controlled the left arm & leg, and likewise the one on the right. These girls were about 14 yrs old (IIRC) and were loving life. They played softball as well as other activities. They talked like sisters would, not like they were some kind of freak. With that in mind, I wouldn't be able to kill them to spare myself some personal pain & inconvenience.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 5:46:18 AM EDT
We're talking about people's lives here. What about their right to "Life, Liberty, and the persuit of happiness?" I'm surprised at how high the murder vote is. Think about this; If it's o.k. for you to decide that their "quality of life" is low enough to kill them, how long before it's o.k. to determine the same issue wrt the elderly, ill, etc? Life is sacred and a right, no matter how short it may be, and who knows how short it will be. Scott
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:47:39 AM EDT
What if amnio reavealed in the first trimester that your infant would live in pure agony for no more than a few months and then die? What then?
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:53:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:55:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:02:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2003 7:06:07 AM EDT by DoubleFeed]
Ah what the hell..these guys did alright. [img]http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/HolyGrail/jpgs/10-three.jpg[/img] I tried to fix it, but it's BROKE! [BD] -DF
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:04:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Nobody gave me permission to edit the poll, so I will just toss it out right here. What about the possibility of in-utero surgery to correct the problem? ie remove one head, and properly align the other? Geez people, our choices are NOT limited to 1) make everybody live in misery or 2) Abort.
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Why give anyone an easy out? The point was to pose a moral dilema.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:07:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2003 7:07:31 AM EDT by DoubleFeed]
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:32:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2003 7:35:44 AM EDT by Atencio]
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Nobody gave me permission to edit the poll, so I will just toss it out right here. What about the possibility of in-utero surgery to correct the problem? ie remove one head, and properly align the other? Geez people, our choices are NOT limited to 1) make everybody live in misery or 2) Abort.
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I would tend to think it might be near impossible to do. You have no way of knowing how the circulatory and nervous systems are combined between the two heads. Just looking at the picture I would bet seperating the nervous system would be impossible. Which head is controlling nervous/endocrine functions of the body? I would imagine one would have to override the other but that is bizarre just thinking about it from a physiologic standpoint. I would say the carotid arteries and veins merge together on the side that is joined. Plus doing in-utero surgey puts a lot of danger on the mother. This is the not same situation as twins attached at the head. They will not have even the same quality of life as them. The two Guatamala twins had two sets of organs, they were two individuals that were attached at the head and all they shared were some cerebral blood vessels. These twins share one heart and one set of lungs. I would imagine if nothing else the baby(s) would die of heart/lung failure. I have worked in a neonatal ICU before and like an encephalic baby a two headed baby is not going to have a quality life. I think it is cruel to carry it to term. If it happened to me and my wife I would opt for a c-section as soon as I found out and let it expire naturally. Saying that, it would still be a hard thing to do.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:38:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:40:42 AM EDT
It would not matter if the baby were born or murdered during pregnancy there are still psychological and physical pain involved! If anyone thinks that a woman can murder her child and not "suffer" then they obviously have never known anyone who did. If the 2 headed baby is not viable outside the womb then it will die and the "problem" will be over. BigDozer66
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:45:35 AM EDT
Besides, such an operation would have to happen after the birth. That would be the safest way. What if only one head can live on its own? Then you would have to chose a head [:)]. Which one goes? The little one? The ugly one? How do you choose? Does the body have a soul, or does each head have a different soul?
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:47:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scottman: We're talking about people's lives here. What about their right to "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?" I'm surprised at how high the murder vote is. Think about this; If it's o.k. for you to decide that their "quality of life" is low enough to kill them, how long before it's o.k. to determine the same issue wrt the elderly, ill, etc? Life is sacred and a right, no matter how short it may be, and who knows how short it will be. Scott
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These babies were born in Argentina where they obviously value life more than some places. As DF said there are more than 2 choices most of the time! It is not as "Cut & Dried" as 1. Let the baby be born and love him/her. or 2. Murder the baby. BigDozer66
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:48:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:50:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:19:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: What if amnio reavealed in the first trimester that your infant would live in pure agony for no more than a few months and then die? What then?
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Then it would live for a few months. Scott
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:22:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scottman:
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: What if amnio reavealed in the first trimester that your infant would live in pure agony for no more than a few months and then die? What then?
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Then it would live for a few months. Scott
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and we would do everything we could to make it comfortable (read demoral) while it was alive.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 12:29:08 PM EDT
Well, Cincinnatus, you posed a tough question that sparked some good discussion. Much better than those, "What gun did Al Pacino use in Heat?" threads. The responses show that most folks here would primarily be concerned with doing what's right as best they could. I wonder what kind of responses would be posted at DU for the same question. Ummm... I think I'll stay here and hang out with you guys.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 3:26:49 PM EDT
Thanks. Being the father of a 10 month old boy, this type of thing is personal. I can't imagine my son living a brief life of pain. But I know this issue goes beyond that. Funny how back in "Biblical times" there seems to be no instances of these "anamolies".... ...occurring?
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 3:54:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Brohawk: There's no doubt that it's an extremely difficult situation. However, as was brought up in a thread a month or so ago, a couple years ago I saw a piece on one of these shows like 20/20 about these conjoined twin girls. They were virtually in this condition. To appearances they seemed to be a two-headed person (two arms, two legs, I don't remember about internal organs). The one on the left controlled the left arm & leg, and likewise the one on the right. These girls were about 14 yrs old (IIRC) and were loving life. They played softball as well as other activities. They talked like sisters would, not like they were some kind of freak.
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Abigail and Brittany Hensel. Two of the most amazing kids in the world. [img]http://phreeque.tripod.com/hensel_sisters5.jpg[/img] [url]http://phreeque.tripod.com/hensel_sisters.html[/url]
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 11:07:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Atencio, do you have any idea when the second head would be seen developing on ultrasound?
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Sorry for delay At 5 weeks you should be able to see the crown rump which is basically the head. At 8 to 9 weeks you can see the actual head. I look at the link that rkbar15 put up. Very interesting. The Hensel twins were basically two bodies fused into one at the lower spine. The twin in the pic that Cincinnatus shows looks basically the same. The assumptions I gave for aborting would not apply as the Hensel twins have two sepeate hearts, stomachs, and three lungs between them. The spines connect at the lower spine and the seperate nervous systems control that side of the body. I think it would still be very difficult to seperate them and probably not worth the effort. If I was faced with this senerio I would probably still abort them if I knew about it early enough. Looking at the Hensel twins makes the decision more difficult and you never know how you would really feel unitl you were faced with that choice. I have to admit I never gave much thought to the abortion issue until I had my kids. On a much more likely senerio is what would you do if you and your wife had opted to undergo egg implantation to have a baby. They will often insert 4 to 5 eggs in the hope that at least one will attach. What would you do if all 5 atttached? Would you do an elective abortion on a couple understanding the much increased risk to mother and other embryos. Ethical questions are always tough and answers can change from day to day based on your experiences.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 2:33:24 PM EDT
Most conjoined twins are either still born or die within a few hours of birth. If you are disturbed by graphic pictures of birth defects and deformed fetuses do not click on this link. [url]http://www-medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/PEDHTML/PED023.html[/url]
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