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Posted: 6/23/2003 4:36:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2003 4:37:57 AM EDT by Airwolf]
Surprise, surprise, surprise I've never hit a women in my life (except in play). My now ex-wife broke my nose once by blind siding me with a hard pillow (swung it two handed and caught me sideways across my nose) when she got pissed at me during an argument. I got calmer, she got irrational and violent and grabbed the nearest thing at hand. Guess I was lucky there wasn't a book or vase nearby. Another time similar situation. Argument. She got louder and angrier. I got cool and quiet. She started swinging, closed fists, striking my upper arms and chest. I used my forearms to protect my face as she landed 6 or 7 blows. At one point a natural defense response took place and I drew my hand back to strike with the palm. I never intended to follow through, I wanted her to stop hitting me. She immediately started screaming "Don't you DARE even think about hitting me!" (after she just got in 6+ good srikes on me). I'm 6'4", she's 5". Had I struck back I probably would still be in jail today. Great system, isn't it? [pissed] [url]http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2003-06-22-abuse-usat_x.htm[/url] Studies shatter myth about abuse By Karen S. Peterson, USA TODAY WASHINGTON — It is not just men who hit women. Women hit men, too. And the latest research shows that ignoring the role women play in domestic violence does both women and men a disservice. There is little doubt that women get hurt more than men. She may slap him. But then he may hit her harder or more often. By not understanding the mutual role they often play, women are at great risk for injury, new studies show. Still, the newest findings challenge the feminist belief that "it is men only who cause violence," says psychologist Deborah Capaldi of the Oregon Social Learning Center. "That is a myth." The number of women who hit first or hit back is "much greater than has been generally assumed," Capaldi says. She says she is surprised by the frequency of aggressive acts by women and by the number of men who are afraid of partners who assault them. Capaldi and two other female researchers call for a re-evaluation of treatment programs nationwide. Such programs focus on men and ignore women. Men are court-ordered into some type of rehabilitation, and their women are told in support groups or shelters that they had nothing to do with the violence, Capaldi says. "Prevention and treatment should focus on managing conflict and aggression for both young men and women," Capaldi says. Each needs to understand the role both play while still putting a "special responsibility" on the man, who can inflict greater injury. The three women did different studies but presented them as a team recently to a conference sponsored by the Society for Prevention Research. The National Institutes of Health sponsored much of the work. The researchers emphasize they are not blaming women. "We are not saying anybody is at fault," says psychologist Miriam Ehrensaft of Columbia University. "But new data is emerging that says women are also involved in aggression. If we do not tell women that, we put them at risk." Rita Smith of the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence is not convinced that men are afraid of abusive women. "That fear is a critical factor in any domestic violence situation. And the abuse is part of an ongoing pattern to control someone else's behavior." Murray Straus, co-director of the Family Research Lab at the University of New Hampshire, has found both men and women are involved in physical aggression, but he emphasizes injury rates are not the same. "The likelihood of an injury to a woman requiring medical attention is much greater. Men cause more damage." The little-talked-about involvement of women in mutual aggression with men is "the third rail of the domestic violence field," says Richard Gelles, dean of the University of Pennsylvania School of Social Work. "Touch it and you get electrocuted." Both he and Straus have done studies that caused fiery controversies. Gelles says the lifetime risk of a woman being struck by a male intimate partner is about 28%. And "depending upon who is doing the survey and how you measure it, you could get numbers of up to 50%." But he says a man's lifetime risk of being struck by a woman is also about 28%. Many researchers' findings in earlier, government-financed studies emphasize the man's role. Patricia Tjaden's study for the non-profit Center for Policy Research, sponsored by two government agencies, questioned 8,000 men and 8,000 women. She found women three times as likely to be assaulted in some way over a lifetime by a male partner than the reverse, and seven to 14 times as likely to be attacked, including beaten, choked or threatened with a gun. Different research tools and methods pick up on different kinds of intimate partner violence, Tjaden says. But still, she says, she has "always had trouble with the mutual-abuse argument. Where are all the male victims?" It is women, she says, who are subjected to "systematic terrorism." The young are particularly prone to aggression. Erika Lawrence of the University of Iowa told the prevention conference that one-third of newlywed women and one-quarter of newlywed men engage in physical aggression. The subject of partner violence is a minefield. Even defining it is controversial. Some call verbal abuse a form of battering. And all sorts of studies are done in all sorts of ways. Those based on crime statistics and reports from women's shelters tend to show dramatic aggression by men against women. (Gelles cautions that some men may not realize or admit they have been assaulted by a woman and may not report it as a crime or seek treatment.) "Family conflict" studies may reflect a broader population, Straus says, and take into account lesser types of aggression that don't lead to arrests or broken limbs. These studies show about the same rates of aggression by men and women. It is clear that women suffer physically more at the hands of men than the reverse, says Faye Wattleton of the Center for the Advancement of Women. But still she says it is good to bring new research to public attention. "I applaud the women who had the courage to present these findings. We don't make progress by suppressing the evidence."
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 4:47:08 AM EDT
I always tell womenz early on. I will NEVER hit you, NEVER, unless you hit me first. Then I will hit you back twice as hard and twice as fast. I would never dream of it but it sure sounds good and seems to work. I have yet to even have a woman raise her hand at me and I have dated some kooks.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 4:56:09 AM EDT
I had a g/f wake me up very early one morning and was hysterical and raised a hand to slap me. She thought I was cheating on her (I wasn't). I blocked the shot, sat her down and told her in no uncertain terms, "I have never, nor will I ever, raise a hand to you. I expect the same respect from you. If it happens again, I'm gone." -934
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 4:57:05 AM EDT
Yup, my first ex was violent. Was not a complete set of dishes in the house. SHe would get pissed because I would dodge them as she threw them at me. I never hit her ad finally got tired and left. Worst thing is she tried to hoit me with a van. THe kids were in the van. Te court would do nothing to her for all her violence to me.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 5:04:15 AM EDT
My friend's gf domestically abused him. When the cops came because of neighbors' calls, they arrested HIM on the spot. Domestic abuse is one of the few situations where cops can arrest even though they didnt witness the crime, and it's always assumed the man is the abuser. Pretty fair assumption, but ths was the exception. They got in an argument a few months later, cops arrested him, judge looked at his domestic abuse rap....BOOM! More jail time.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 5:26:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By u-baddog: I always tell womenz early on. I will NEVER hit you, NEVER, unless you hit me first. Then I will hit you back twice as hard and twice as fast.
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[ROFL] Well, that sounds like a good way to break the ice on a first date! -Nick Viejo.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:08:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:24:13 AM EDT
Abused men, the hidden side of domestic violence. [BD]
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:35:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2003 6:36:15 AM EDT by Chimborazo]
Originally Posted By Airwolf: I'm 6'4", she's 5".
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Your ex-wife is only five inches tall? [;)]
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:39:46 AM EDT
It's been known for well over a decade that women are the attackers just as often as men............ [url]http://www.menweb.org/throop/battery/damnabledenial.html[/url] But a female researcher who went against the "conventional wisdom" in 1978 received threats against her children .
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:40:05 AM EDT
[LOL] Nope. 5 feet tall (and almost that wide, too) [shock]
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:48:40 AM EDT
The married females know this, if they want to get ride of your arse + gunz they'll make "accusations". Their not worth the "sex" 2little2often........find a mistress, and unload the dead weight.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 7:04:22 AM EDT
My ex-gf kicked me in the head, cold-cocked me, threw an iron at me and hit me a few other times. All different altercations. Once I pciked her up and threw her on the couch. Another time I grabbed her and brought her to the front door wereupon I literally kicked her ass out the door. (not a hrad kick - more like a shove) She was nuts, but I never hit her. She was too hot and too good in the sack to let go though. My brother, when staying with us for awhile, used to wedge a chair under his doorknob because he was genuinely frightened that she could kill someone in the night. Finally I had to let her go when she drove me more crazy than the good sex could overcome.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 9:25:43 AM EDT
I got hit once... I put my hands on her shoulders and let her know that it wouldnt be a good idea to do that again.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 9:47:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Airwolf: .... I probably would still be in jail today.
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And could kiss your firearms rights goodbye for good! That's what's scary to me. If a woman even SAYS you hit her, and it sticks, that's it -- no more guns.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 9:53:38 AM EDT
I used to live in a small town, that had a cop that would write an article every week in the newspaper. His topic one week was domestic violence. He detailed arriving at a domestic violence call and finding an irate woman who had a black eye. This kind of stuff really gets cops going. So, they bust in to the house and find the husband watching TV. They put him down and cuff him. He admits he hit her as they are walking him out to the cruiser. They then begin to interrogate the woman and she says that he hit her with his elbow. So, they go back to the guy in the cruiser and notice that he has some blood seeping through his sweatshirt on his back. They pull up the shirt and can claerly see where the wife had bitten out a sizeable chunk of flesh. He responded that he only hit her as a last defence. They released the man and took the woman downtown. The scary thing is, is that I think that there are quite a few women who would pull that kind of shit. Being single has its advantages!
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 9:58:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RLR:
Originally Posted By Airwolf: .... I probably would still be in jail today.
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And could kiss your firearms rights goodbye for good! That's what's scary to me. If a woman even SAYS you hit her, and it sticks, that's it -- no more guns.
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I've only gotten involved with guns since 9/11. Even before that I kept as much distance from the ex as possible. After finding out what happens when guys who own guns+psycho women I've REALLY kept a low profile. Based on conversations with mutual friends she's got a totally warped view of reality, me and how I ruined her life and did everything wrong in the marrage.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 11:05:29 AM EDT
The really sad thing about all of this is that most of it is the fault of men. It's the male politicians who cater and bow down to the man hating feminists and make unfair domestic violence laws. It's the male police officers who don't take the complains, reports, and fears of abused men seriously. It's males in society that allow themselves to be brainwashed into thinking that men are always the bad ones, and women always the victims. While it's true that when a man hits a women it will generally be more severe and aggressive mainly due to the strength differential, the fact is that even a simple slap is considered "domestic violence". How often have you men seen a woman, in public, slap, shove, or hit a man she was arguing with, and then see EVERYONE around turn a blind eye to it? I'd venture to guess it's happened a lot. This problem will not get fixed, at least not for another generation. The liberal, man hating feminist propaganda of the last 30 or so years needs to be destroyed first, before any progress in "equality" can be made. Frankly, this is one of the reasons why I am in absolutely no rush to get married, and don't mind being without a girlfriend for months at a time. The fact that it is easier for a woman to completely ruin a man's life in America than it is to buy a gun makes me a bit cynical when it comes to being in a committed relationship with a woman.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 11:26:35 AM EDT
I had very big argument with a left-wing type "instructor" at a domestic violence class when she insisted that women are the primary aggressors in only a fraction of domestic violence cases. In my personal experience, having handled hundreds of domestic disturbances, the female (in male-female relationships) was the primary agressor, or sole aggressor in about 25% of the incidents, and in some cases there were clear signs of ongoing, systematic and extreme violence directed against the male half of the relationship. Big, strong, blue-collar tough guys who have been getting the crap kicked out of them by momma for years. Here is a homework assignment that might have interesting results. Contact your local LE agency and ask for their total number of arrests last year for domestic violence offense, and then ask for the percentage or number breakdown for male versus female arrests for those offenses. Depending on your state, they most likely have to give you that information, and I'll bet you will be surprised.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 1:06:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By A_G: The really sad thing about all of this is that most of it is the fault of men. It's the male politicians who cater and bow down to the man hating feminists and make unfair domestic violence laws. It's the male police officers who don't take the complains, reports, and fears of abused men seriously. It's males in society that allow themselves to be brainwashed into thinking that men are always the bad ones, and women always the victims. While it's true that when a man hits a women it will generally be more severe and aggressive mainly due to the strength differential, the fact is that even a simple slap is considered "domestic violence". How often have you men seen a woman, in public, slap, shove, or hit a man she was arguing with, and then see EVERYONE around turn a blind eye to it? I'd venture to guess it's happened a lot. This problem will not get fixed, at least not for another generation. The liberal, man hating feminist propaganda of the last 30 or so years needs to be destroyed first, before any progress in "equality" can be made. Frankly, this is one of the reasons why I am in absolutely no rush to get married, and don't mind being without a girlfriend for months at a time. The fact that it is easier for a woman to completely ruin a man's life in America than it is to buy a gun makes me a bit cynical when it comes to being in a committed relationship with a woman.
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Exactly!
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 1:32:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 1:40:51 PM EDT
Women are made of sugar, spice and everything nice. There is no way something made of such ingredients could instigate domestic violence.[;)]
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 2:28:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sherrick13: As a cop I can say the domestic violence laws are very unfair to the man as are protective orders. They are even MORE unfair to gun owners. Having said that domestic violence is a very bad problem that does need some sort of solution. I would say about 80% it is the man that is abusing the women. About 90% of those times the women go back to him and keeps the problem going.
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Are those numbers based upon your experience? If so, they don't reflect that cases that are not called in -- and I'd suspect that men are less likely to call if the wife is the one who is violent.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 3:00:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DonS:
Originally Posted By sherrick13: As a cop I can say the domestic violence laws are very unfair to the man as are protective orders. They are even MORE unfair to gun owners. Having said that domestic violence is a very bad problem that does need some sort of solution. I would say about 80% it is the man that is abusing the women. About 90% of those times the women go back to him and keeps the problem going.
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Are those numbers based upon your experience? If so, they don't reflect that cases that are not called in -- and I'd suspect that men are less likely to call if the wife is the one who is violent.
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Well put. Going back to what I said about this problem being largely the fault of dickless pussy whipped men, most LEOs and prosecutors, et al will not take the male's complaint seriously. Even IF he is treated fairly by the police, prosecutor, etc. the woman can still claim he had been abusing her all the while and she was just fed up and fought back that one time. Guess who's word will be taken as the truth in that case? Ask yourselves, how many of YOU would call the police, see help and sympathy, and make a big deal out of it if your wives/girlfriends beat you? How many of you would be laughed at, called a wuss, and treated like the one who is at fault, not the victim? Now that you've asked yourselves all this, you will see why so few men report abuse directed at them by women. Our society has allowed women to always be the victim, and put them on a pedestal, while at the same time allowing them to demand "equality" in and for everything. Apparently, when it comes to stuff like this, women are more equal than men.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 9:29:49 PM EDT
In most domestic violance incidents there is some hitting by BOTH parties. For a couple of year we were arresting both participants. But the DA's change the law and now we are supposed to determine who was the "dominant" not primary agressor. Still we arrest alot more women than we used too. It still feels strange to me to get an emergency protection order for a man. The women cant believe it when you tell her she isnt allowed to go back to her house.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 11:45:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2003 11:46:25 PM EDT by sherrick13]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 12:51:10 AM EDT
This is by and large the most effective form of gun control ever put upon the sheeple!
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 12:58:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: Still we arrest alot more women than we used too. It still feels strange to me to get an emergency protection order for a man. The women cant believe it when you tell her she isnt allowed to go back to her house.
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I remember reading a while back the feminist groups were bitching up a storm (more so than usual) about this very thing. How it was unfair that more women were being arrested for domestic violence. They were of the opinion that men were purposely abusing the system by calling & signing the complaint first after the first female initiated slap or dish thrown....Boo F'kn Hoo. This crap is exactly why I'm glad I'm still single.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 2:36:17 AM EDT
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