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Posted: 6/20/2003 11:47:30 PM EDT
This happened about twenty years ago to my father in law. He had a house just off a major Texas highway, a few miles away from any other houses. There's some noise that wakes him up, and he can hear two guys talking quietly. Immediatly his thoughts are protecting his wife and two young kids. He grabs his revolver and sneaks into the front room where the guys are fumbling around in the dark. He flicks on the light and takes aim. The guys are both about twenty years old. One was very drunk, both had been drinking. Father in law, Bill, asks basically what the fuck they think they're doing. They don't say anything, just point towards the yard. Outside there are headlights. Bill's really freaking out, wondering how many more guys are waiting outside and whether they're armed. His judgement probably isn't the best at that moment, going from sleep and straight into a nightmare. He asks again, and the guys just point and one kind of stutters but can't talk. Bill steps slowly over to look out a window. Outside a car is resting upside down. They all go to it. One wheel is still turning. The mostly decapitated corpse of a drunk young man is inside. The two guys were traveling behind the now headless drunk. They saw the wreck, and figured the Bill's house was the dead guy's place. This is why he won't have a firearm in the house. Doubt if anyone can ever convince him otherwise. I never asked, but he probably left the door unlocked. Please don't take this as a troll post. I'm the biggest gun nut I can afford to be and am not in anyway trying to discourage self defense. Bill's story just kinda freaked me out, as I may not have given the guys the chance he did.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 11:55:49 PM EDT
Well he probably figures he came too damn close to on purpose shooting some poor scared guys that were trying to call the Police or something. Sounds like the whole incident was a cluster that he just wants to forget.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 11:58:14 PM EDT
If he can hear almost any noise how come he didnt hear the door bell or the door knocked on? Whats fair is fair, he can get scared because he DID have a gun and he COULD HAVE killed the intruders. He used his best judgement and he did the right thing... basically he DID NOT kill the intruders. Unfortunately, the opposite occurs more times, like the times people have been broken into, raped, murdered, shot, stabbed, beaten. All but those that have been killed WISHED they had a gun at the time. I see nothing wrong with what Bill did.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 12:07:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2003 12:07:54 AM EDT by sherrick13]
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 12:13:10 AM EDT
Hopefully he wont ever have a similar situation where the drunk guys are actually BAD GUYS with BAD intentions.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 12:51:27 AM EDT
When it comes to a gun, it's FAR better to have it and not need it, than the alternative.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 1:28:47 AM EDT
I'm not trying to influence his decision to not be armed. While it's a good thing for a law abiding, responsible person to be armed in conflict, that's not likely to ever happen for him again. Guns just make him uncomfortable now. He's a big strong guy anyway. It also seems to me he did the best possible thing in the situation. Hope I didn't imply that I thought otherwise. I just think it's a thought provoking story that could eliminate lots of grief for somebody here in the future.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 1:33:36 AM EDT
if where you live is so bad, you NEED a gun for self defense, you also need to lock the doors to your house, and garage, and the keys to the cars don't stay in the car's ignition, even if they are in the locked garage. If you NEED a gun for self defense, you NEED a reliable BRIGHT flashlight. You also NEED a cordless phone. A good loud dog wouldn't hurt neither.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 2:23:55 AM EDT
Bill sounds as if he has problems. Something like that would only reinforce my need to have a weapon in the house. I almost killed some people while driving, would it be reasonable for me to quit driving? Nope. I almost ate a bug once while eating at a restaurant. Is it reasonable to stop eating? He maintained his composure at a time when it was crucial to do so, and his reaction is to disarm? Weird.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 2:49:03 AM EDT
He would rather accept the risk of becoming a victim than have to defend himself. His choice. My grandfather always said, "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6." Anyone in my house without my knowledge is NOT innocent, regardless of their intentions. Eddie
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 3:14:17 AM EDT
I have no problem if somebody doesn't want a gun, I have a problem if they don't want ME to have a gun...
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 3:33:19 AM EDT
If he don't plan on fucking anymore,then why don't he just cut off his johnson! Pay attention here and try to pass it along(you can own a gun and not use it!) Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:26:31 AM EDT
None of us want to be in a position where we shoot an innocent person. Same position cops are in all the time. That's why a cool head and a good analysis of the situation is crucial. Sounds like he had the two drunks in his house, but they weren't threatening him. He did the right thing by not shooting. The stories that pop up every now and then of an armed homeowner shooting one of their children because they heard a noise at night terrifies me. You just don't react without a critical analysis of the situation. Not having a gun when you need it is a mistake.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:37:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HSimpson: Bill's story just kinda freaked me out, as I may not have given the guys the chance he did.
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Here's how I figger it... Pulling the trigger is gonna cost me everything I own. Even if I'm innocent. Even in a state where I have the RIGHT BY LAW to shoot first and never ask questions (in my house anyway) The law suit that is SURE to fllow will bankrupt me (likely, anyway) That said, which is better - being dead, or being poor??? It is with that mindset that I keep a gun at the ready by the bed at nite. This is magnified that much more since I'm married. You MUST have a clear head if you decide to use agun in self defense. Have so thoroughly thought it thru that you KNOW what you are gonna do, at least on a theoretical level. If you haven't FULLY settled in your mind what you would do and at what level of threat, my recommendation would be to take the firearm out of the equation till you do. Then, once you do, practice, practice, practice. Self defense should become reflex as much as it is deliberative.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:56:11 AM EDT
I always wondered if DU would send us infiltrators.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 5:22:04 AM EDT
Some issues with this story: - How is it that he heard two guys talking quietly in his front yard, but didn't here the rollover? And, according to the way you tell the story, they didn't say anything, just point to the yard. Seems to me there's either something he's not telling in the story, or he doesn't have a clue how to tell drunk and stupid from hostile and cagey. - Seems to me the Constitution gives everyone the RIGHT to own a gun; it doesn't say everyone HAS to own a gun. As Fuzzybunny said, If Bill doesn't want one, that's cool, as long as he doesn't decide that no one else should have them either. Gunowners forcing people uncomfortable with guns to have them is just as bad as antis forcing us to give them up. - Bill had a "significant emotional event." You may be able to show him the logic of the situation (he properly read the situation, held fire, etc), but he's wrapped up in the horror of the event and what he might have done. People sometimes lock onto what COULD have happened instead of what DID. Instead of learning that it's important to be REALLY, REALLY, REALLY sure of what your doing, he learned a different lesson--that the presence of a firearm sometimes escalates things when not required. A valid lesson, but he drew the conclusion that the way to solve the problem is no guns, instead of training and clear thought processes. Because it's an emotional, not a rational, response, I doubt you will be able to change his mind.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 5:28:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Fuzzybunny: I have no problem if somebody doesn't want a gun, I have a problem if they don't want ME to have a gun...
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Exactly! Well said.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 5:32:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2003 5:33:54 AM EDT by A_Free_Man]
The really neat thing about defensive firearms, they can work so effectively WITHOUT EVER FIRING A SHOT. I have used a firearm defensively more than a few times, and have not had to shoot anyone. And an AR15 works REALLY well. Just the sight of it (or sound of chambering a round) makes people run away very fast. That's fine with me.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 8:20:40 AM EDT
------- How is it that he heard two guys talking quietly in his front yard, but didn't here the rollover? ------- He doesn't know what it was that woke him, just that when he was awake enought to know what was going on these guys were in his house. -------And, according to the way you tell the story, they didn't say anything, just point to the yard. Seems to me there's either something he's not telling in the story, or he doesn't have a clue how to tell drunk and stupid from hostile and cagey.------- Maybe they were in a panic, or shock, or just didn't want to break the news to him somebody he might be real close to was dead and mangled fifty feet away while he was armed and they were in his house uninvited. I don't know, and it's not the point of the story. -----it's important to be REALLY, REALLY, REALLY sure of what your doing,----- That's the point of the story. I'm not in any way saying the gun was not called for either. If it were me I would have had either my AR with mounted Taclite or a revolver and probably less patience with their silence. My wife would also know to expect trouble and have her .357 ready. Also, Bill doesn't try to influence me or anyone else not to have guns. He just wants me to be particularly careful since I did marry his daughter. If he still had kids in the house to protect, he might feel differently. I shouldn't have even mentioned his getting rid of the gun. It's not really relevant to the point of the story, and not worth going off on a tangent about. It was his decision that affects only him, don't get all Dale Gribble on me people. I bet if I had lied and said he collects Barretts Avtomat would have liked the story better.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 11:11:58 AM EDT
I own guns, and keep one handy for protection at home, I too strugle with the dilema that taking an innocent life would bring. I pray to never have to use my gun, but the thought of my wife or daughter being raped and murdered because I was to weak or unwilling to defend them is worse.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 11:46:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Avtomat: I always wondered if DU would send us infiltrators.
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Not possible. Didn't you read the "I'm a gun nut" disclaimer? [rolleyes] And he's clearly a certified Rambo. He don't give chances or bother with positively identifying targets. He's the guns a blazing god I always wanted to be.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 12:10:56 PM EDT
Ok everyone can make up stories on the Net but Bill didn't do anything wrong and your story is a little be too convienent I mean why would the guys be whispering if they thought no one was in the house and why were they in the house. How many of us would just walk into a house in the middle of the night?
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 12:13:16 PM EDT
Oh yeah what the harm in pulling a gun one a couple of drunks? Its not like "Bill" knew that the guys were trying to help? also I keep a light next to my gun you always identify your target.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 12:14:47 PM EDT
He hears "two guys talking" but didn't hear the CRASH-BANG-BOOM of the car flipping? I don't think so................
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 12:16:02 PM EDT
BS, BS,Bs, hear say, BS. GG
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 12:21:07 PM EDT
How is it that he heard two guys talking quietly in his front yard, but didn't here the rollover?
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Since the rollover happened first, it seems natural that it would have woken him up then when he was more awake, he heard the guys talking. Sounds reasonable to me. I've got a loaded shotgun hidden near my bed, but I know there's almost no chance I'll ever use it for defense in the middle of the night. There's really almost no point to me even having it since I'm such a heavy sleeper. I've had relatives knock on my door, bang on my bedroom window, enter with my spare key, pick-up something from my bedroom, then leave without me ever knowing someone was there. For someone like me, a self-defense firearm isn't worth the expense, so I can understand how someone else could make the decision not to have one.z
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 12:42:26 PM EDT
Even if the story is true, why does everyone assume the guys were trying to help? Why would someone be trying to help by sneaking into a home and whispering and searching without even turning on a light?
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