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Posted: 6/15/2003 5:33:56 PM EDT
Anyone know the most humane and fastest method of butchering a large domestic four legged beast with just a fixed blade? Cutting its throat comes to mind, but what happens if it doesn't cut the jugular? Slicing its windpipe would not be what I consider humane.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:40:41 PM EDT
Personally I would rather use a large ball peen hammer to the forehead then a fixed blade. That was not your question though. Overhand Machete Chop to the back of the neck? How large is this blade. Why can't I use my 22lr in the ear.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:42:53 PM EDT
my family buys a hog every year shoot it in the eye with a .22 then slice the neck as for killing a big animal with just the blade, i'd rather not maybe with a big ass machete
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:45:40 PM EDT
You start just at the neck bone and go all the way through, side to side, then cut down cutting the jugular and the windpipe. You could look up on google on how to slay kosher beef. dave
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:47:52 PM EDT
If you have to use a blade, the best method is exsanguination. There is an area directly above your collarbone (or that of a large animal) that allows penetration of a blade into the great vessels of the heart. This makes them bleed out quickly but it is best if they are hanging upside down. It ain't pretty either. Don't try this shit on a bull in a shoot if you don't know what you are doing though. You will end up getting gored or not killing the poor bastard and make him bleed for forever. The best way IMHO and I think the way most slaughterhouses are still killing cows is captive bolt. Pistol shell with powder only drives a bolt into the head. You can get the same effect with a 12 gauge slug at several feet away. Why are you doing this or do I wanna know? Just don't beat it with a baseball bat. [beathorse]
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:57:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 6:11:16 PM EDT by benbob]
Push the blade straight through from the back where the base of the skull meets the spine. This should be far more humane than bleeding it out. I'm not an expert, heck I've never tried it on cats or anything. I'm just speculating.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:17:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 6:19:06 PM EDT by Ohio]
Originally Posted By benbob: Push the blade straight through from the back where the base of the skull meets the spine. This should be far more humane than bleeding it out. I'm not an expert, heck I've never tried it on cats or anything. I'm just speculating.
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Never get the penetration; it takes too much strength. Best bet is to tie a 1000 pound weught to a pulley, with the line tethered at ground level. Get the animal to stand under it. Cut the rope. Seriously, straight jab just in front of spine in neck with blade aimed outward, cut forward. You should get the carotid, and maybe the jugular. The carotid strike will put them down fast from no blood pressure at the brain.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:28:09 PM EDT
I once had to kill a large deer with a knife when I was younger. It fucked me up pretty bad. I couldn't kill anything for near 20 years and It cried real loud. If your not a sick fuck use a gun or a large ball peen hammer.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:29:01 PM EDT
Don't bull fighters finish them off by severing the spinal cord?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:33:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 6:35:05 PM EDT by Searcherfortruth]
I watched when they killed the bull at the bull fights I went to in Mexico. While the bull had been well bled, & stabbed in the heart from a sword, it was after the bull went into the sitting position that a man with a short [Approx 5" blade] knife came up from behind using it to cut the spinal cord close to the skull. This is what really made the bull short out for good. It was very quick work, but the events leeding to that point were anything but quick. I don't know how it would work on a large fresh animal. Maybe if you could put the head in a stantion it might be possible. Good luck.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:37:18 PM EDT
I've seen a video of kosher slaughtering of beef. Take a two foot straight razor, start at the base of the neck, and slice upwards through the entire neck until suddenly the whole area is covered with blood. You've struck the carotid artery. It's at this point that the animal reacts violently. Perhaps a better approach is an axe (a good, very sharp one with a good handle and a good swing weight) straight into the spine at the base of the skull, from a full, hearty swing. That should be as close to an instant kill as is possible. The aforementioned exsanguination technique is the ideal method that a matador tries for when killing a bull in the ring. Even an experience matador can't get it every time, so I'd recommend against that. A large, razor sharp machete to the side of the neck, cutting the carotid artery, is probably the most likely way for a non-professional to kill a large animal quickly and relatively safely with a knife. Before trying it, though, put your hands on the animal's neck and feel for the strongest pulse. Mark that spot and aim for it. And be prepared to run like hell. A well skilled Samurai could probably cut the cow's head clean off in one stroke from an excellent sword, but odds are that you don't have such a man for a neighbor. CJ
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:37:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Corporal_Chaos: Don't bull fighters finish them off by severing the spinal cord?
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When the matador goes for the "kill shot" he tries to put his blade between the bull's shoulders and pierce its heart. I've seen a few bullfights and only once did the matador hit the heart (I don't think I ever saw any of the really good matadors). The time the matador hit the bulls heart, it instantly dropped like a rock. Very impressive. I forget how they finished the bull off though, if he had an assistant come and slice the bull's throat. Damn, now I want to go see another bull fight! -Nick Viejo.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:38:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Searcherfortruth: I watched when they killed the bull at the bull fights I went to in Mexico. While the bull had been well bled, & stabbed in the heart from a sword, it was after the bull went into the sitting position that a man with a short [Approx 5" blade] knife came up from behind using it to cut the spinal cord close to the skull. This is what really made the bull short out for good. It was very quick work, but the events leeding to that point were anything but quick. I don't know how it would work on a large fresh animal. Maybe if you could put the head in a stantion it might be possible. Good luck.
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Quite correct. A blade plunged into the foramen magnum where the spinal cord meets the skull will kill instantly. Works with people too. Remember the ice pick scene in the car in Goodfellas?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:42:19 PM EDT
It is hard as shit to cut an animals spinal cord from the back. You have to have a skinny blade and know your anatomy. Otherwise it aint gonna be pretty. As far as bleeding out, that is how we slaughtered pigs in a slaughterhouse but they had first been electrocuted and were out of it and hanging upside. And this is what the USDA considers humane? Dumb bastids. I recommended this method of going deep into the neck ONLY if you HAD to use a knife. What kind of animal is it? I am sticking by my 12 gauge slug to the head. I also agree with the post about killing with a knife. If you don't do it right and you gotta mess with a suffering animal, it can do a mind fuck on you.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:47:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KODoc:
Originally Posted By Searcherfortruth: I watched when they killed the bull at the bull fights I went to in Mexico. While the bull had been well bled, & stabbed in the heart from a sword, it was after the bull went into the sitting position that a man with a short [Approx 5" blade] knife came up from behind using it to cut the spinal cord close to the skull. This is what really made the bull short out for good. It was very quick work, but the events leeding to that point were anything but quick. I don't know how it would work on a large fresh animal. Maybe if you could put the head in a stantion it might be possible. Good luck.
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Quite correct. A blade plunged into the foramen magnum where the spinal cord meets the skull will kill instantly. Works with people too. Remember the ice pick scene in the car in Goodfellas?
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Right, Doc; but you gotta admit that anyone asking the question has exactly zero chance of hitting this without getting involved in a bone, or losing momentum before making the penetration. I have taken apart cows and seen horses; it's really well protected by a gristle pad and heavy muscles; especially in a bovine. The bullfighting killer goes between C3 and C4, I beleive; they don't even make the try for the medulla or the foramen. And he knows right wehre the disc is, too. Larry
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 7:09:30 PM EDT
If you are needing to bleed the meat.. you have to hang the animal upside down. slice the throat.. and let it bleed to death. It's not humane anyway you look at it... I butcher rabbits often.. I used to iron pipe them to the back of the head knocking them out before cutting the throat. but lately I've just been cutting the head off, holding the rabbit by the ears while hanging upside down. the difference is night and day as to how much blood is pumped out. Your gonna have to hoist this animal upside down and get ninja on it from the front of the neck back. Don't let the thrashing around around bother you.. you'll become a little cold blooded after the first 10 kills.. [;)]
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 7:32:14 PM EDT
By the way, if you hit a bull with a set of jumper cables and get your ass run over don't blame me! Slacker is right about hanging to protect the meat, but I have found in my own experience (and how it is done in slaughterhouses on cattle) is to make the kill on the floor. Then immediately hang up and bleed out. Ideal: 1) Shoot in head with 12 gauge slug to kill it. 2) Hook up to hoist or engine tripod from leg and hang upside down. 3) Now slice neck and let the animal bleed out as you start gutting it. If you have access to a freezer, let it hang for a few days (at least). I used to have a link to one of the Meat Science departments in the midwest but I can't find it. Maybe do a search for College of Agriculutre or Meat Science for more info.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 7:37:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By realist: If you are needing to bleed the meat.. you have to hang the animal upside down. slice the throat.. and let it bleed to death. It's not humane anyway you look at it... I butcher rabbits often.. I used to iron pipe them to the back of the head knocking them out before cutting the throat. but lately I've just been cutting the head off, holding the rabbit by the ears while hanging upside down. the difference is night and day as to how much blood is pumped out. Your gonna have to hoist this animal upside down and get ninja on it from the front of the neck back. Don't let the thrashing around around bother you.. you'll become a little cold blooded after the first 10 kills.. [;)]
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Bunch of psychotic fucks......... Shoot it then hoist it..........
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 7:42:09 PM EDT
using a 12 gauge slug to the head is terribly messy. the best way to do it is to use a 22 to the head. this will usually stun the animal. it very rarely kills it instantly. then hang the animal. cut the throat. since the animal is only stunned the heart is still beating, therefore it is pumping the blood out. if you use a 12 gauge slug the animal would likely die immediately. gravity will be the only thing "pulling" the blood out. not as efficient as being pumped out.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 7:42:45 PM EDT
What's the purpose of bleeding the animal? I've heard of people doing this to deer but I've also heard that it is unnecessary and often ruins good hides. What's the deal?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 7:49:16 PM EDT
"Apocalypse Now" had the real thing. Sharp, heavy, fast blade to the back of the neck. Nearly severed the head in one motion. That's about as quick and painless as I've ever seen.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 8:33:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sniper_408: Bunch of psychotic fucks......... Shoot it then hoist it..........
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Thats normally the response you get from city slickers..[:)]
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 8:49:04 PM EDT
Just stab it in the lower leg....right above the hoof. Then make it stand in urine and feces for weeks until it dies of infection. This seems the appropriate answer in light of the question which brings me to this question. How do you knock a supersonic jet fighter down (with only an edged weapon)?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 9:01:27 PM EDT
What FSP said ? What no dynanite where you live? Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 9:33:06 PM EDT
How come you're doing it with a blade? It's not for some weird ass sacrifice, is it?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 10:03:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By deadman: How come you're doing it with a blade? It's not for some weird ass sacrifice, is it?
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Fucking pagan People Against Goodness And Normalicy
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:51:56 PM EDT
getting all or most of the blood out is part of the process of preparing it to be edible. Meat is generally muscle tissue and draining the blood helps relax it or so I been told. Don't forget close to half the blood has waste products in it and you want those out.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 12:04:33 AM EDT
Yeah, but I've eaten deer that haven't been bled. Is this only supposed to be practiced on domesticated animals or what?
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 8:40:11 AM EDT
i have killed a dying deer with hunting knife. it didnt really screw me up or anything, but it is a very strange feeling, and it took alot of mental control to do it. i used a really sharp 5 inch blade. i placed the tip of the knifeon the side of the animals neck with the edge facing out. the knife went through at a depth that would just miss the spine and allow a fast cut that would sever the juggular and the windpipe all at once. death was instant, but i wouldnt wanna try this to anything larger than a deer. why they hell do you want to know about this anyway?
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 8:54:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2003 8:56:13 AM EDT by Ohio]
If this is a practical question, rather than strictly theoretical, I would change my vote to "shoot it". I have used blunt trauma successfully in the past as well. One thing to consider; if you make a "hesitation cut" (ask a doctor or cop) you are likely to get way injured by either the animal, or the blade as the animal registers his objection. It's dangerous to use a blade; both for the animal and user. BTW, I have killed over 200 animals and assisted in many more; anything from rabbit to cow. Anyone saying "go for it, no problem" should list their creds.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 9:32:21 AM EDT
Happens to be my area. Basically they are bled out just for flavor reasons. Blood itself is not that a very liked flavor and it can cause oxidation too which tastes bad too (think freezer burn). Also, in pork espically, there are problems with the texture of the meat. It gets mushy. -B
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 9:32:58 AM EDT
Growing up in the PI, in a very small barrio at that as a kid- We always had a guy come over and hit a cow at the back of the neck with the blunt side of the axe - real hard. It knocks it out some - they then hog tie just to be sure it doesn't come about and start running around and kicking everybody - (and splashin blood all over). Afterwards, somebody opens/cut a hole in the neck where the artery is - and let it bleed - all the blood has to be taken out - besides - flips like to eat the blood too [:)] DD
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 9:40:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2003 9:46:06 AM EDT by dave223]
[b] Most humane way to kill a large animal (horse, cow etc.) with just a fixed blade?[/b] Dress it up like a Pirate!! Soon after, It will lay motionless with its head completely lopped off. [url]http://www.realultimatepower.net/[/url]
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 9:42:11 AM EDT
Stiletto bladed Ka-Bar type knife straight through the earhole. Should be lights out...[xx(] Best friend had shot a doe through the spine with a muzzleloader and realized she was still alive after getting to the ground. He took a bone saw and severed her neck almost clean through....he said she went limp right after he hacked the neck. I have seen this twice....while not necessarily "humane" it was better than letting them bleed through the relatively tiny hole in their back. [:(]
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 9:42:40 AM EDT
You'll need 4 things 1) Large, sharp knife. 2) Duct tape. 3) A Ford F-250 or similar sized GMC or Dodge pick-up truck with a good rear bumper, always back in the radiotor is in front! 4) Enough room for a "running start".
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 11:21:59 AM EDT
The most humane way to kill a large herd mammal with only a sharp knife? If you are asking this question, you need to hire a butcher to do this for you, really. If you are asking this question for pure research, contact a slaughterhouse or a custom slaughterhouse, butcher (many rural communities will have such a thing). As far as the samurai method or the Apocalypse now method is concerned, it is insufficient to get a machette and sharpen it to a razor's edge. You need to know where you are trying to hit and be able to hit it forcefully and without hesitation. So unless you are a highly skilled axeman or swordsman who can hit a target no wider than 1/2 inch, don't try it. Hard bone like can be found in the vertebrae of a bull or horse, will not be cut easily, even by a razor sharp sword or machete. An axe may smash it, as may a suitably massive sword, but cutting it is unlikely, and count on a severely damaged edge. This is why hitting between the vertebrae and slicing through a disk is the better bet. It should be noted of course, that the back of the vertebrae is a pretty massive chunk of bone and you've got a ways to cut or smash before you get to the spinal cord which is contained in a channel running through the FRONT of the vertebrae. There are also interlocking/overlapping bone structures that further protect the spinal cord from inter-vertebral cuts. So you've got to hit hard and accurately to do the job. If you cannot guarantee an accurate, hard stroke, the humane criteria of your original query cannot be met.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 12:20:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2003 12:22:42 PM EDT by Old_Painless]
Not to get off on a tangent too much, but.... When I was a LEO about 30 years ago and was working for the Sheriff's Dept, I happened upon a wreck between a car and a horse. The Texas DPS was doing the investigation and it was on a fairly deserted road near the Gulf of Mexico beach. The horse was tied up to a telephone pole and had a broken leg. His owner showed up and asked me if I would shoot the horse and put it out of its misery. I knew better. (The owner can decide next week that the horse was a full-blooded thoroughbred and worth thousands and could have lived if only you hadn't murdered it.) But the DPS officer said he would put down the horse. He was carrying a S&W Model 28, .357 Mag, (the officer, not the horse) and proceeded to shoot the horse in the head. It immediately fell down. But it didn't stay down. It jumped up and started bucking and squealing and bleeding all over the place. He shot it again. The same results. After a cylinder full of .357's and a horse with a head full of holes, the DPS officer was sweating like a whore in church. The crowd was getting ugly and the ladies and kids were crying. Grown men were tearing up. The DPS guy asked me what he should do. I offered my 12 gauge Remington Riotmaster and told him if that didn't do the trick I would need it back to use for crowd control as the crowd was getting rowdy. But finally, with his last round of .357 Mag, he sent the horse to his eternal rest. The crowd cheered. The DPS officer kind of looked at his Model 28 and appeared to doubt its ability to bust any motor blocks. Moral of this true story: *Horses are tougher to kill than you might think. *And they have a small brain that is easy to miss. *I don't want to shoot any horses.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 12:35:58 PM EDT
Exactly what four-legged beast are you considering terminating and what is the circumstance?
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 12:55:04 PM EDT
Good story Painless I would add to the moral of the story *never voulunteer
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 1:09:40 PM EDT
You gotta slit their neck for it to be Kosher. Proposed laws to ban this is anti-semetic. Shok
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 1:22:21 PM EDT
Excuse my ignorance but what is DPS? Sad story. Slacker, have you ever killed a small animal? I know from raccons that a little animal can scare the shit out of you even after you think it is dead. Put one down in a trap with a .22 point blank into its head, the thing appears dead so after a bit I dump it from the trap. The animal hits the ground, screams, and starts hobbling towards me, slowly due to the hole in its head, but fast enough that I damn near had to clean out my pants. I will tell you that was a bad sight, the animal covered in blood, screaming and walking towards me. That was a little animal that personally I hate, I can't imagine a big eyed horse screaming and bloody.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 2:02:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rickyj: Excuse my ignorance but what is DPS? Sad story. Slacker, have you ever killed a small animal? I know from raccons that a little animal can scare the shit out of you even after you think it is dead. Put one down in a trap with a .22 point blank into its head, the thing appears dead so after a bit I dump it from the trap. The animal hits the ground, screams, and starts hobbling towards me, slowly due to the hole in its head, but fast enough that I damn near had to clean out my pants. I will tell you that was a bad sight, the animal covered in blood, screaming and walking towards me.
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DPS is the Department of Public Safety, the state cops in Texas and a lot of other places. The Ohio State Highway Patrol is poart of the ODPS. Anyway, now I got to tell you a story. I am the afternoon supervisor at a vehicle test center. One night after dark someone ran over a pretty good sized raccoon. Now, as supervisor, it's my job to remove any hazards that may present themselves, includind dead animals. I usually take a shovel with me on these jobs, no sense getting live, ticks, or other nasties off a dead critter, right? Anyway, someone stole, I mean misappropriated my shovel, so I "borrowed" a 4 1/2 foot crowbar. I went out there, and as I approached the raccoon it got up and came toward me. From previous experience I know full well run-over-but-alive animals are in a foul mood and ready to atack anything. Well, I'm ready with 20 pounds of steel. I tee up on him, and clip him under the chin. A full one and a half reverse gainer! Plop he goes, and gets back up and comes at me. I hit him for two backward somersaults, and he comes back at me, screaming in rage. I clop him aagin, and he quits running at me but keeps gnashing and trying to crawl. After what sems like ten minutes he stops moving; I drag him off of the track. When I get back in the office my assistant screams, and the others around ask if I'm OK. Turns out I look like an axe murderer, or victim thereof; blood streams across my face and body. Then there was a time the mink ran [b] up my leg[/b], but we'll save that story for later. Trouble is that I am really fond of raccoons; that really bothered me for a while. Too bad it couldn't have been an oppossum. Larry
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 2:22:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Slacker: Anyone know the most humane and fastest method of butchering a large domestic four legged beast with just a fixed blade? Cutting its throat comes to mind, but what happens if it doesn't cut the jugular? Slicing its windpipe would not be what I consider humane.
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Country boy! Dude, goto the tack store and but a couple vials of rompum. That or a pillow case soaked in ether. Wanting to use a blade. Why dont you tell the truth and say you want to see what it looks like. GG
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 3:01:18 PM EDT
[img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/csstoreonline_1746_1908619[/img]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 10:01:07 PM EDT
Old_Painless, your story reminds me of a guy who just bailed outta here, and his days as an LEO. He had one dog (shepard or PBT) that took several .38's, and 1 12 OOB and dropped. Thinking it dead, they threw him in the trunk of the cruiser and headed for the dump. When they dumped him on the heap at the City yards, and were walking away, the dog [u]raised it's head up, and visually followed them as they walked[/u]. Like the SAS say...why put 2 rounds into every bad guy we pass? To make sure he doesn't get up behind us. BTW, I vote 12ga slugs (Brennekes). Heard of a pig getting shot w/ a 7.63x39, with messy results - round richoched off the 1st pigs skull, and wounded a 2nd. Oh well...more BBQ.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 5:14:11 AM EDT
I likes to use a sling blade, uhmmm, some folks calls it a Kiaser blde, but I call em sling blades, yea uhmmmm.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 5:41:14 AM EDT
When I first started in LE, I worked for a small dept in Texas on the outskirts of a large city. Pretty suburban, deer all over the place. Put down at least 1-2 a week, injured by cars. Had an 8 point buck hit by a Datsun. Totaled the car and broke all 4 legs on the deer. Backed up traffic quite well by the time I arrived. Buck thrashing all over the roadway. Deputy already on scene says he'll put it down, and since shooting it requires paperwork, he'll just cut the throat. Out comes the knife, he straddles the deer, and with a great deal of effort, saws into the neck. Deer goes berserk, blood everywhere. After an awfully long time, deer bleeds out Did I mention the first vehicle backed up at this lovely scene is a school bus full of elementary school kids? I bet you could have heard the screaming for miles. Thank God our uniforms were not similar. they called a special town meeting over the deal. FAR better just to shoot it. A 9mm behind the ear does nicely. Ask me about the guy that took on a buck in rut with a K-bar sometime.
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