What happenss now when you CA/NY guys get pulled over with a grandfathered .50 in your vehicle??????


Guilty untill proven innocent.


Gun laws are often misguided and stupid. Banning a .50BMGs? Thats too much. Has one ever even been used in a civilian crime????

Er, it's a little hard for me to consider NOT registering a traceable, very conspicuous rifle that I just paid $3K for.

My 50 is as much a financial investment as anything else.  If it should ever get stolen and recovered by the police, there's a very high probability that it will get returned to me (as happened not long ago with a CA resident on this board who had his AR stolen).  If the bill passes and it isn't registered OTOH, I can't shoot it anywhere that a cop might question me and I'm out the $3K if it gets stolen.

Mind you, the above applies only to a rifle that I bought from an FFL holder.  If I ever owned one for which there was no paper trail let's say I'd be very reluctant to register it.

Boomholzer,

Cops know instantly (via computer records) about (just about) every handgun and every registered "AW" that anyone in Cali owns.  If you get pulled over, by the time the cop approaches your window he or she is very well aware of what you own.  Whether or not you have a weapon in your car, they know.

I've been pulled over while transporting firearms.  No big deal.  They were cased with the case in plain sight, and the LEOs have never said a word about them.  A month ago when I called them to my house to report harassment by my former GF I am quite sure they knew I was an AR-15 owner and have slew of handguns.  Our discussion of firearms consisted of them asking me if the ex owns one.  Not a word about mine.  And my home-defense M1 Garand was in plain sight.  No problem.  Most cops are totally cool about firearms.

This could very well explain the hostility when I get pulled over/ticketed.

The Rock is a pretty good movie, except when the Recon Marine trained badguy doesn't know how long the fuse is on the grenade he throws.

Good reply on Bighammer:

[url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/wwwboard/index.cgi?read=112846[/url]

For the rest of you who, for some reason, think that NRA "...didn't do anything." I suggest that you ask:
John Burtt -- FCSPI -- http://www.fcspi.org/
Ronnie Barrett -- Barrett Firearms -- http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/caspecial/la50banbarrett.shtml
Bill Ritchie -- EDM Arms -- http://www.edmarms.com/main.htm
The 1000s of California NRA volunteers -- NRA Members' Councils -- http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/
The entire California State Assembly -- http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/legs/asm.shtml
1000s of California firearms owners -- California Alert System -- http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/calerts-signup/index.shtml
And, a sample of our communication:
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/calerts/calert040202.shtml Note: AB2222 = AB50
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/calerts/calert041202.shtml Note: AB2222 = AB50
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/calerts/calert041702.shtml Note: AB2222 = AB50
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/calerts/calert041202.shtml Note: AB2222 = AB50
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/calerts/calert041702.shtml Note: AB2222 = AB50
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/calerts/calert042302.shtml Note: AB2222 = AB50
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/calerts/calert041903.shtml
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/calerts/calert051103.shtml
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/calerts/calert052203.shtml
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/calerts/calert053103.shtml
I will not include internal communication from within the NRA Members' Council Program due to the fact that this forum can be viewed by anti-Second Amendment groups. But I will include http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/wwwboard/index.cgi?read=112689

You see, the NRA has been at the forefront of this battle. We just don't spend our time telling everyone about it. But the multi-organizational meetings that we have held and lobbying efforts have been occuring for some time. What you can see here is just the tip of the iceberg.

We will continue to fight AB50. As it moves to the State Senate, we will increase the pressure. If AB50 is amended, as expected, in the Senate, we will fight it again should it pass the Senate and go back to the Assembly.

The NRA is not letting up on AB50, or other anti-gun bills, you shouldn't either.

We all need to stand together and fight to protect our Second Amendment freedoms.

If you want to know what is happening with California firearms legislation and you want to do something about it, go to: http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml

ITS GOOD TO FIGHT HARD, BUT TO WIN - WE MUST ALSO FIGHT SMART!

Thank you.

Paul Payne
NRA Liaison to the Executive Vice President


Second message:


Your welcome. But it is ALL OF US, standing TOGETHER, that makes a difference.

It does little good to focus on the negativity of AB50 passing one house of the legislature. THE MOST IMPORTANT VOTE IS THE NEXT VOTE!

We cannot let defeats, or even victories for that matter, get in the way of our efforts to protect, defend, and restore the Second Amendment. We must remain vigilent.

My personal advice is to stay focused and for everyone (even outside of California) to fight California's battles. I have tried to make lobbying the California legislature easier by developing http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml with a team of dedicated high-tech "geeks" within our NRA Members' Council Program in California.

Remember, if it happens in California, you will soon see it elsewhere in the country. So, why not help defeat the bad stuff in California, BEFORE it has a chance to mutate and spread across our nation?

A personal note about detractors. We all know that the NRA has detractors. We read their "stuff" (being polite) which is usually written in such a way to state or imply that there is something seriously wrong with NRA. "NRA has sold out gun owners" or some such nonsence. I have been reading this "stuff" for years, and I have read the most recent one to hit several of the anti-NRA web sites. As is often the case, most of these anti-NRA "Hit-Pieces," "expose`s," etc. do little to cement the bond of unity that is nessecary if we are to prevail in our efforts to defend the Second Amendment.

In fact, much of what is written is simply not true. Often you will find that the "facts" used to "prove" the points are themselves links to other anti-NRA web sites and/or stories. These "facts" are spun in such a way to support someone's claim de jour.

This makes it easy for some of us. Some firearms owners claim that the "NRA has compromised" or "The NRA is not pure of heart," (or some other convenient NRA problem) therefore justifying their not getting involved with NRA's efforts to fight bad bills. It is very easy to complain about the game from the stands. It is also very easy to place yourself out of the mainstream and then complain about the things that happen in the middle of the action.

I could easily state that I will tolerate "NO MORE GUN LAWS! PERIOD!" That is an easy statement. Since it is probably not reasonable to expect that there won't be another gun law passed somewhere, I can then be discusted with the NRA for "allowing" the law to be passed. In this senerio, I am "safe." It wasn't me who "caused" the problem. It was the NRA and their _________ (insert outragous claim here).

The antis love this kind of "blaim the NRA first" mentality.

If, as estimated, there are about 80,000,000 gun owners in America, don't you think it would be a good idea if we encouraged them to swell NRA's ranks above the present level of 4,000,000? How 'bout 5,000,000 or 10,000,000? OR, we could just sit around our computers and gripe about the NRA.

Just my humble personal opinion.

Paul

shhhh...  you want to beat them?  cheat at their game.  

when they succeed in disarming themselves, and the 'aggresive' police, oh, and their horrible *violent* army - be there. armed to the teeth. let them cry out, "that's against the law". how are they going to enforce it?

it's a war of attrition.

Not illegal until the official date.  Speed up the Serbu order.  I need one now.

[b]FACT - MOST GUN OWNERS AREN'T EVEN REGISTED TO VOTE![/b] - click to read - [url=http://www.gunnewsdaily.com/rw509.html]

California Gun Owners Blamed For The Loss of Gun Rights
Gun Owners Are All Bark and no Bite!


[/url][url=http://www.gunnewsdaily.com/rw510.html]Gun Owners Vote?
The Numbers Say Otherwise. [/url]



Rope-A-Dope.  So you defeat 500 bills, but 3 nasties get passed.  Who won the most battles?  You.  Who won the war?  Them.



Effectively, what does that mean?  Tens of thousands of gun owners are now CRIMINALS.  Their gun gets stolen, they can't say a word.  Can't will the weapon to anyone when they die (but neither can the ones who registered).  Can't even risk shooting the weapon at a public range, or transporting it down the road.  So we've got thousands of Safe Queens.

What good was accomplished?  Do you think the NRA is going to fight for their right to own ILLEGAL weapons?  Nope.



What he really said is [i]"Don't turn the water temperature up TOO fast, or the frog might jump out"[/i].  Am I wrong?



I hope you are right.



What happens in Kali happens to the rest of us later.  Everyone knows that.  We all have a dog in the hunt.

If you don't want our opinions, why post this on the GD board?  Should be in the Kali forum.

Support-wise, I'd like to help, but not much I can do from here.




Freedom for me was leaving Maryland and escaping to Pennsylvania.  $19 & 2 weeks = CCW permit.

I'm not from Maryland anyway, so I had no vested interest in going down with the ship.  Liberal cesspool.

Just a thought.

[pissed]

So goes CA, so goes the Congress of the USA...

CRC

And heres some Examples, Brady bill based on a Ca law, AW ban based on yet another  Ca  law.

Scary stuff--IllAnnoy is only a few steps behind...

I don't know how quickly this bill was passed in California but most of have no right to complain.  Most people on this board have no right to complain about anything.

If you knew about the possible ban, did you call/write your Senator/Representative?  Don't give me this bullshit excuse that "my liberal commie senators won't listen to me."  If you aren't willing to put in the time, don't complain.

To those of you who have written/called/stalked your senators/reps, I commend you.

The AWB is coming up soon.  What the hell are you going to do about it.

[url]www.house.gov[/url]

[url]www.senate.gov[/url]

Look up your elected officials now and voice your opinion.  If you don't, then STFU.

fight4yourrights,
You make some very good points.  I do need to point out one mis-statment on your part.  You state there isn't much you can do from where you are.  I'd like to call your attention to California AB342 that was shelved -- some would think due to the overwhelming opposition.

Some non-California opposition that made there voices heard include:

Coastal Chapter of TREES (Oregon)
Deep East Texas Coonhunters Association
KDK - Versatile Hunting Dog Club
Long Island Coon Hound Association
Master of Fox Hounds Association of America
Middle Tennessee Amateur Retriever Club, Inc.
Miniature Bull Terrier Club of America
National Animal Interest Alliance
Nassau-Suffolk Horsemen's Association
North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association - Southeast Michigan Chapter
Oak Hill Kennels
...
4,227 individuals (not listed by state)
There's more but that gives you a picture.

These individuals and groups believed they could do something about it.  It's not hard to think that, someday, you might own a .50 and be invited to shoot in Ca.  That's enough of a cover and justification to let your voice be heard.

"What happens in Kali ..."  You are absolutely right.  People need to realize that they are part of the American political system and get involved in it, everywhere.  It's much easier to fight a war when it's not on your doorstep.

Or they can sit on their butts, cuss California, then wonder why the same laws happen in their state.

California politics has decoupled from the rest of the nation. It used to be a swing state; now it's solidly in the Democratic column. Mass west. It's not a predictor for politics elsewhere anymore.

The Democrats would be suicidal to try what the CA assembly passes.

Off on a shopping trip for a Serbu this weekend.

Yes that might change some day say in 2008 we get a democrat for president.

We just never Know.

We can still try and stop it in the Senate, or when it reaches Joe Davis' desk.  I always thought the vote here is always socialist, but the first time the bill was up we knocked it down.

Let's do it, this one for Reagan

Amd Pen L, generally; add S231, Exec L                                        
Bans the sale, use or possession of 50-caliber or larger weapons and directs  
the division of state police to embark on a program whereby persons currently  
in lawful possession of such weapons may be reimbursed for the fair market    
value thereof upon turning such weapons in to a designated officer.  

That the NY Bill pending...No Grandpop clause...BASTARDS!!!!    

For those of us from out of state, if you contact CA State representatives, make it clear you will NOT be bringing the family to Disneyland, or any place else for that matter.

BOYCOTT!!

THAT gives you a voice they'll hear! Contact the reps who have tourist stuff in their districts. Maybe CA members can post contact info for legislators, and tourist draws in their districts. That way, non-state residents can help out....

Just wanna add here, I know some of you CA guys are pretty active, Big Bear particularly. Keep it up, some of us will do what we can. Personally, I think it's gonna come right down to IT, in CA one of these days... (Hell, everywhere else too, I guess, for that matter! [:D])

It was the best of times...

1. Republican Congressional sweep of 1994
2. 1996
3. 1998
4. 2000
5. Bush's election of 2000
6. Republican gains of historical proportions in 2002

It was the worst of times...

1. Even with #s 1 through 6 above, we still are having to fight off gun bans and other "anti" laws.

Do you have a problem with a Free man defending himself???

See that big word in red?? May doesn't mean that they SHALL.
If you have ever read the definition of may, you will see that the idiots in charge will NOT allow funding for reimbursement of several thousand dollars a pop.
Hell, they are running a HUGE deficit as it is, and people actually belive that they will give up the fair market value of a 50 cal??

Ok I am going to help you people in occupied territories by giving one word of advice:

mike india lima india tango india alpha

Do it now or forever hold your peace.

I agree with Imbroglio 100%
And if someone had the ballies to start that up here in NY, I would be among the first to join.
Mass (pro-gun) protests in times-square would interesting to say the least.

Talk to wave, he's a General or sumthin...[:D]

The fact is we [b]ARE[/b] successfully fighting off gun bans and other anti laws one after another.

As long as there is even ONE anti in Congress, they'll propose all sorts of BS gun-control bills.

How many major gun-control laws have PASSED since '94???


We can NEVER rest on our laurels - [b]"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."[/b] Thomas Jefferson

Just keep in mind that we can beat down a bill a thousand times, and win a thousand small victories, but if that bill gets passed into law just ONCE, we've LOST that particular war.

There is no winning as long as there are those with the will to continue to try to deprive free American citizens of their God given and Constitutionally protected rights.  So long as those people exist, we can only fight them off, but actually winning isn't possible.


CJ

M4 aiming at u is totally right!!! Where the fuck was the NRA???? They lost another one!! They aren't getting shit from me anymore!!!!!I have poated several times i=on here that we need to have a MILLION MOTHERFUCKIN" GUN OWNERS MARCH!!!
These letter writings mean shit and the Politians say whatever we want to here and thebn shove it up our asses. Time is now to act,send me the cash and I will start an organization that will get the message across....Peacefully of course. Lets go gentleman it is time to shit or get off the shitter! We all have a lot invested in the way of freedom , cash and a lot of preciuos memories with our families to let these bunch of hand jobs to keep doing what they do.[soapbox]

isnt that something like 7 words? [BD]

to hell with peacefully... those assholes have been kicking down doors and shooting people to death.... screw peacefully, if it takes force of arms then so be it...... fuck em.

  18  LICENSED  FIREARM DEALER WHO HAS IN HIS OR HER POSSESSION A NEW 50-CALI-
  19  BER WEAPON SHALL BE ENTITLED TO RETURN SUCH WEAPON TO THE DISTRIBUTOR OR
  20  MANUFACTURER, AND SHALL BE ENTITLED TO A FULL REFUND, OR CREDIT,  IN  AN
  21  AMOUNT  EQUAL  TO THE PURCHASE PRICE OF SUCH WEAPON. IN ANY CASE WHERE A
  22  DISTRIBUTOR OR MANUFACTURER FAILS OR REFUSES TO SO REFUND OR CREDIT SUCH
  23  DEALER, THE DEALER SHALL NOTIFY THE DIVISION OF  STATE  POLICE,  AND  IT
  24  SHALL  IMMEDIATELY  NOTIFY  THE  ATTORNEY  GENERAL SO THAT HE OR SHE MAY
  25  INTERCEDE AND TAKE SUCH ACTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE DEALER TO  SECURE  SUCH
  26  REFUND OR CREDIT.                                                      
  27    3.  WITHIN  THIRTY  DAYS  OF  THE  EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION, ANY
  28  PERSON, INCLUDING A LICENSED FIREARM DEALER, WHO HAS IN HIS OR HER LEGAL
  29  POSSESSION A USED 50-CALIBER WEAPON SHALL PERSONALLY DELIVER SUCH WEAPON
  30  TO THE DIVISION OF STATE POLICE, AND  UPON  TRANSFERRING  OWNERSHIP  AND
  31  POSSESSION  TO  A  DULY DESIGNATED OFFICER THEREOF, SHALL BE ENTITLED TO
  32  RECEIVE PAYMENT IN AN AMOUNT EQUAL TO THE  FAIR  MARKET  VALUE  OF  SUCH
  33  WEAPON, BUT NOT TO EXCEED EIGHT THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS.    

Find the Bill and read the TEXT!!!!

Don't know how to highlight in red but on line 31 it say's SHALL...

Line 31b says the possessor SHAL BE ENTITLED, not that the state SHALL reimburse for the value of the gun.

That is a whole 'nother ballgame.
IF they are gonna ban 'em, do you really think that they will pay??

Nope.

In Kali, the fair market value will be 0, becuse they are illegal.
DO you think that they are gonna pay what it costs to buy one in Virginia, or PA?


The same thing happened with the SKS owners. Were they compensated? Nope. And you can get a whole lot more SKS's from people for that kinda money.

From The Cali Legal page at [url=http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/ab_50_bill_20021202_introduced.html]Cali legal site[/url]

[qoute]  This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this
act for a specified reason.[/quote]

It is at the bottom of the opening text, above the header THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

Now, the way I read that is that the state SHALL
provide a means of requesting reimursment, but not that they SHALL give reimbursement, which leaves us in a MAY situation.

And if you read a little further, you see that it doesn't have an Appropriation vote, which means that no money has been appropriated for the reimbursement.

From section 19 of the AB50: