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Posted: 5/31/2003 5:49:18 AM EDT
How about [i]this[/i] example: (cold link) http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=7912&forum=DCForumID70&omm=0
Rights are a legal concept; the government can give or revoke them at will, and they exist only because the government does. However, there are some rights that the government *should* give citizens and ensure that it won't take away; in the modern world, it means the freedoms of thought, speech, morality, information, from religion, to privacy, of assembly, of movement, to a fair trial, of association, and of striking, in that order (voting rights are something intrinsic to democracy, but they're requried too). Those freedoms are not natural, self-evident, or inalienable in any way; they are instruments that in today's world's context a) maximize the people's welfare and benefits, b) protect them from government the best, and c) are the most basic rights required for the function of a liberal democracy.
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Link Posted: 5/31/2003 5:55:53 AM EDT
Hear that? That's the sound of the founding fathers spinning in their graves.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 6:32:28 AM EDT
Typical screed from a socialist over at the DU. More Lenin and less Adams.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 6:59:16 AM EDT
Rights are a legal concept; the government can give or revoke them at will, and they exist only because the government does.
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WTF?!? Sir, do you belive that you have the right to live? But of course! Sorry, the goverment says otherwise (as the gun is pointed at his head). But, but, but I didn't think it meant something like that! Of course I've got the right to live. Yes, but you said very clearly that the goverment may grant and remove rights as it sees fit. We're revoking this one. *BANG* God damn fucking idiots. Everytime I read something like this it makes me want to go build a cabin in the backwoods and never see another human again.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 7:01:20 AM EDT
...endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights Inalienable rights: Rights which are not capable of being surrendered or transferred without the consent of the one possessing such rights. Seems plain enough to me.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 7:09:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Deliverator: ...endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights Inalienable rights: Rights which are not capable of being surrendered or transferred without the consent of the one possessing such rights. Seems plain enough to me.
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Yeah, but if you read what else he said, he thinks that that whole concept is a fairy tale. He referenced a web site where the guy says that there's no such thing as inalienable rights, and that they constitution was just set up to benefit rich white men, or something to that effect.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 7:16:44 AM EDT
Typical Micheal Moore type mentality. Thinks we should all be black canadians.[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:41:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:46:55 AM EDT
Damn, Glad I'm a rich white man...
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:52:23 AM EDT
People believe that God Gives them rights... But who of you would put a flash suppressor on a Post Ban... God gave you the right to do it but Uncle Sam says you cant.... Most of us listen to Uncle Sam... Until we take rights as God given and stand up for them they will disappear one at a time.... We can scream from the hill tops that God gave them to us but when they pass a law saying you dont have the right, we just tuck our tail and run. Go ahead write your congressmen... but seems to me what God say trumps them.... I myself dont recongnize the AWB because it goes against my God Given right.... Or do we say God is wrong, and prove that by recoginizing it. Stand for something or sit down.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:58:57 AM EDT
Rights are a legal concept; the government can give or revoke them at will, and they exist only because the government does.
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Technically, this is true.
it means the freedoms of thought, speech, morality, information, from religion, to privacy, of assembly, of movement, to a fair trial, of association, and of striking
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Nothing wrong here until you hit striking. Then predictably, it turns Marxist.
a) maximize the people's welfare and benefits, b) protect them from government the best, and c) are the most basic rights required for the function of a liberal democracy.
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"a" indicates this person is a Marxist, and is quite lucky to live in the US where we tolerate his/her views. The Marxist paradises they dream of will not allow such deviant thought no matter how much they believe they will. "b" is always a good thing, and in fact is the primary goal of any "right". The author acknowledges that the government is the single most powerful entity in our lives as "government can give or revoke them at will" and thus civil protections are needed. Can you say from zero in 1933 to insta-jailtime in 1934.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:03:53 AM EDT
you want a reason why? JAMES EARL CARTER - his Presidency damn near crippled this nation in both domestic and foreign arenas. WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON - a Presidency Nixon would be ashamed of.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:05:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Deliverator: ...endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights Inalienable rights: Rights which are not capable of being surrendered or transferred without the consent of the one possessing such rights. Seems plain enough to me.
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This is why a belief in a 'Creator' is neccesary for the US to continue to flourish. As soon as the majority think rights come from government, we are finished.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:19:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoNotTreadOnMe: People believe that God Gives them rights... But who of you would put a flash suppressor on a Post Ban... God gave you the right to do it but Uncle Sam says you cant.... Most of us listen to Uncle Sam... Until we take rights as God given and stand up for them they will disappear one at a time.... We can scream from the hill tops that God gave them to us but when they pass a law saying you dont have the right, we just tuck our tail and run. Go ahead write your congressmen... but seems to me what God say trumps them.... I myself dont recongnize the AWB because it goes against my God Given right.... Or do we say God is wrong, and prove that by recoginizing it. Stand for something or sit down.
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Sounds good but, here's what my problem with it is. I believe that God gives us the right to protect our family. In this country, that means guns. If they want to ban the AR-15 and give me a gun that's just as effective for me to use, then I would say that my right isn't being infringed. Likewise, I don't think that God gave me a right to have a flash suppressor. If I need one to protect my family, then I reckon I'll get one. As it stands, I don't need a flash suppressor on the end of the AR to protect my family, so I go ahead and respect the law of the land.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 9:32:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheHappyBlaster: Hear that? That's the sound of the founding fathers spinning in their graves.
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Amen. They're going to have to redefine the Richter Scale is these dolts continue speaking this way....
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:35:48 AM EDT
So what your saying is what to the last minute until you need a flash supressor (or what ever it maybe) to protect your family. Its not about a flash sup.. its about your rights I dont think I need one either, but what if you believed you did? answer that...
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:37:57 AM EDT
I guess the founding fathers got tired of paying a stamp tax so they started a revolution... I think it is more about your rights than the tax on a stamp...
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:31:38 PM EDT
Another dingus who can't distinguish between right and privilege.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 6:50:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoNotTreadOnMe: So what your saying is what to the last minute until you need a flash supressor (or what ever it maybe) to protect your family. Its not about a flash sup.. its about your rights I dont think I need one either, but what if you believed you did? answer that...
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If I believed that I needed one in order to protect my family, then I reckon that I would go out and get one.
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