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Posted: 5/30/2003 11:59:13 AM EDT
We think we have a problem with drug use and are planning to test. One of my employees says there is some concoction you can buy to clean you out in less than an hour. Is there any truth to this?
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 12:05:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 12:08:42 PM EDT
been smoking the wacky tabaccy have you? hmmmmmm well, my pothead friends always used something like a fruit preservative jelly or some shit like that, but the way i understand it your best bet is to drink as much water as humanly possible
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 12:13:41 PM EDT
Here you go.... [url]http://www.urineluck.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 12:15:57 PM EDT
I studied my ass off for my last drug test, but all the wanted me to do was pee in a cup! WTF was up with that?
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 12:16:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TexRdnec: been smoking the wacky tabaccy have you? hmmmmmm well, my pothead friends always used something like a fruit preservative jelly or some shit like that, but the way i understand it your best bet is to drink as much water as humanly possible
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No, I will be coordinating the testing. I will be the tester. My employees drive company vehicles and we have a lot of liability even if they are clean.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 12:19:19 PM EDT
Drink a ton of water Dont give your first piss of the day Use mid-stream pee Give the bare minimum required
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 12:30:12 PM EDT
I have heard drinking lots of water and something called golden seal tea work. I just got called in for the piss test last week at work. Didn't study a bit as it was a pop quiz. If you are administering the test make sure you do everything exactly right. There are shitloads of rules governing how to do it properly. If someone does come up hot and you do fire them better have all you P&Qs in order. Slightest bit of deviation in giving the test can render it null and void.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 12:52:33 PM EDT
[url]http://www.detoxify.com/works/works.html[/url] ....good enough for Government work. CHRIS
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 1:13:49 PM EDT
Most good labs will test for the presence of the most common ones, Goldseal etc.. However, pony up for the hair folicle test, almost never heard of this to be beaten. Just don't tell employees or some smart ass is going to shave his head, this won't prevent the test from being done, but it's hard to pluck a hair from a bowling ball.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 1:20:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BBossman: Just don't tell employees or some smart ass is going to shave his head, this won't prevent the test from being done, but it's hard to pluck a hair from a bowling ball.
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Hair must be at least 1" long for testing......guess how I know[;)]
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 1:23:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 1:25:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GaryM: I have heard drinking lots of water and something called golden seal tea work. I just got called in for the piss test last week at work. Didn't study a bit as it was a pop quiz. If you are administering the test make sure you do everything exactly right. There are shitloads of rules governing how to do it properly. If someone does come up hot and you do fire them better have all you P&Qs in order. Slightest bit of deviation in giving the test can render it null and void.
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Not really a problem. In Georgia, an employee can be terminated with reason, without reason or just for the hell of it.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 1:29:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 1:37:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sherrick13: Of course the best way is to NOT DO FUCKING DRUGS!!!!!!!!!
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Where's that "Master of the Obvious" pic?
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 1:46:12 PM EDT
My wife did a huge research paper on drug testing for her masters in nursing. She did a lot of interviewing with the companies that do the drug testing. The best and sure fire way to beat the test is to put enough salt into your urine. you could have booted up Heroin before the test and it won't show. I won't give proportions of salt to body weight on this site but if the person taking the test is observed closely they won't be able to add it or any other adulterants to the urine like bleach. There is no clinical evidence that the over the counter adulterants work. However there is none to the contrary either.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 2:14:30 PM EDT
Common flushers (that you take before giving a sample) and bleachers (that you try to drop in the pee cup afterward) all show up on tox screens. They are (in most places) grounds for dismissal even if no illicit substances are detected.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 2:21:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2003 2:29:04 PM EDT by FullAutoM4gery]
Originally Posted By sherrick13: Of course the best way is to NOT DO FUCKING DRUGS!!!!!!!!!
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Geez, sounds like he's been too busy sampling the haul from his roadside seizures to have read what this thread was about.
Originally Posted By 2IDdoc: There is no clinical evidence that the over the counter adulterants work. However there is none to the contrary either.
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I recently saw a segment on one of the news magazines like 48 Hours and 60 Minutes about adulterants. They said that some did indeed work; however, some labs now are testing for something (I can't remember what) that tends to indicate the sample has been adulterated. Of course these tests cost more. A guy I used to work with got his brother to pee into a Prell bottle for him and he carried that into lab for screening. I know many labs now check the temp of the sample. I'm not sure if someone could beat that by keeping it in their armpit or groin. At the grocery store the other day I noticed their sign said they do saliva screening for drugs of all applicants. I wonder if this just detects MJ? You should talk to the lab and find out what type of testing they do and how they are monitored.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 2:21:42 PM EDT
a mixture of bleach and vinegar should do the trick. drink a gallon of the 50/50 mix. might I mention the possibility of a horrible death? fucking druggies! can't stand any of them.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 2:25:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 2:32:46 PM EDT
There are plenty of things one can do/use to pass piss tests but most of them require some prior notice so you can prepare for them. If you make them take the test with no notice then you are more likely to catch your drug users.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 8:03:06 PM EDT
The only real answer is that it depends upon the type of test and the conditions. And then you have the problems with false positives. Personally, I always wondered how good the management must be if they require drug tests to tell their employees are impaired on the job. Let's suppose somebody is so drunk that they can't do their job. The managers can't tell until the person actually falls out of their chair? Some research shows that companies that do drug testing have lower rates of productivity than companies that don't. There could be two reasons for that. One is that it is really an attempt to do something that managers should have been able to do (adequately manage their employees and accurately judge their performance) without drug testing. Or it could be that employees interpret it as lack of respect and show a similar lack of respect for the company's interests. Certainly, if drug testing had been in place in certain companies we probably wouldn't have Microsoft, Apple, or a number of other well-known high-tech companies. As a measure of employee performance or safety there is no real reason to believe it might be effective. One reason is that it is most likely to catch occasional pot smokers who don't have any more of a problem than the occasional martini drinker. That's because marijuana stays detectable in the body for the longest period of time -- long after it has ceased to have any real effect on them. On the other hand, a person can spend the weekend wiped out on alcohol, heroin, and meth, and be in no shape to work during the week but still test entirely clean. Another reason is that research consistently shows that work problems (like with auto accidents) are largely due to ordinary fatigue and inattentiveness. If you want to actually judge whether someone is fit to work and solve that problem on a large scale, you have to test them for fatigue. Otherwise, you won't catch the person who spent all weekend wired on crank. And there is an easier way than doing all that Golden Seal and other routines to avoid the drug test. All the employee has to do is state that such things are against their religion. As you may know, there are a number of religions that have strict rules on what people do with their body and bodily fluids, etc.. By law, the employer is forbidden from asking anything about the religion, or discriminating against the employee because of their religious beliefs. So the employer cannot ask which religion it is, or take any action against the employee for refusing to take the test. All things considered, you will be far better off if you do performance testing -- which really does test what you are after -- rather than drug testing, which doesn't. There are companies that make devices that allows the person to punch a series of numbers or perform other simple tests every morning. If the person is too slow according to their own previously established guidelines, then they are judged to be impaired. It measures actual impairment on the job rather than the presence of a substance that may not have any actual current effect. It will catch people who are impaired because of any cause, whether because they are currently stoned, just didn't get enough sleep to be safe, or spent the weekend on crank but are now clean for drug testing. If you like, I can give you some references on where to find such companies.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 8:06:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BBossman: Most good labs will test for the presence of the most common ones, Goldseal etc.. However, pony up for the hair folicle test, almost never heard of this to be beaten. Just don't tell employees or some smart ass is going to shave his head, this won't prevent the test from being done, but it's hard to pluck a hair from a bowling ball.
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The hair follicle test is the dumbest of all because it's results are the least likely to be related to any current performance issue. A person could have smoked a joint a year ago and get caught on a hair test, even though they haven't had anything since. That might be a good idea if your point is just to persecute people for no good reason, but you can't really pretend that is a sensible way to address a business problem.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 8:10:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 8:19:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BBossman: Most good labs will test for the presence of the most common ones, Goldseal etc.. However, pony up for the hair folicle test, almost never heard of this to be beaten. Just don't tell employees or some smart ass is going to shave his head, this won't prevent the test from being done, but it's hard to pluck a hair from a bowling ball.
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The follicle test is fool-proof. Your hair has a chemical "tape recorder" in it. If you've been exposed to enough of a certain contaminant or drug, it'll show up in your hair.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 8:30:20 PM EDT
I have to agree with Wolfman97 on this one. If you have a problem with a driver, deal with the driver. Don't subject all the other employees to random, intrusive, demoralizing testing if you don't have a good reason. If they ALL drive like they are drunk, get a new crew or check the vehicles for exhaust defects.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 8:40:47 PM EDT
I heard a deal on G. Gordon Liddy about a guy who sells his own piss on the net. He never drinks never uses caffeine never smokes or does any drugs not even antibiotics. He sells it in a little bag with a tube attached you keep it in your pants all day so it is normal body heat and when the guy hands you the cup you pull out the tube and fill the cup with his piss. He says it works 100% of the time. If you ask me he's found a gold mine in his shorts. Hell I should sell some of my piss to the hop heads. Anyone need some clean piss?
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 10:01:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RobarSR60: The follicle test is fool-proof. Your hair has a chemical "tape recorder" in it. If you've been exposed to enough of a certain contaminant or drug, it'll show up in your hair.
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But it is the least likely test to have any relevance at all to a problem in the workplace, simply because you could be seeing what the person did several months or a year ago.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 10:16:09 PM EDT
The last employer I worked for would consider any type of "clarifier" found to be a positive test and you were fired. They listed the clarifiers they tested for and you had to sign the whole company drug policy to be hired. We had a couple of "tokers" try to beat the test. We were very strict on how we administered the random tests. Employee was to report to the office within 30 mins. of being notified, they were not allowed to use the bathroom and were kept in sight of a supervisor(me) until they were delivered to testing facility, and then they were asked to give the sample. We lost several to the clarifiers.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 10:23:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Valkyrie: The last employer I worked for would consider any type of "clarifier" found to be a positive test and you were fired. They listed the clarifiers they tested for and you had to sign the whole company drug policy to be hired. We had a couple of "tokers" try to beat the test. We were very strict on how we administered the random tests. Employee was to report to the office within 30 mins. of being notified, they were not allowed to use the bathroom and were kept in sight of a supervisor(me) until they were delivered to testing facility, and then they were asked to give the sample. We lost several to the clarifiers.
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In other words, the managers were so poor that they couldn't tell who was performing adequately and who wasn't, so they used a drug test which really doesn't tell you that?
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 11:40:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2003 11:41:07 PM EDT by TigerStripe]
What is the point of the testing? Is it to find out if someone operating a vehicle or machinery is currently intoxicated? If so, fine. Is it to discover the "potheads" that work at a particular company. That's just wrong. How many of you "let's get the dopers" express that you'd shoot ATF if they do a no-knock on your house at night. This is unreasonable search and seizure. The right of the people to be[red] secure in their persons,[/red] houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. TS
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 1:27:37 AM EDT
Don't do the crime if ya can't do the time!!
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 2:59:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 5:30:54 AM EDT
My wife is the director of the county drug/alcohol program, has masters,Lpcc,etc, and according to her none of that shit really works, the flushing agents show up in the urine, that makes it suspect right off the bat,Golden seal will definitely show up in the urine, and is well known as a type of fulshing agent,Believe me, they've came along way with the urine testing in the last few years, and they're pretty hard to beat....the guys that buy that shit to clean themselves up in a hour will not only be out what it costs (and it's not cheap) but they'll be out a job,too.....it takes about 6 weeks to get pot out of your system....
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 6:00:26 AM EDT
For the occasional pot smoker (1-2 times per month) tests may not show up anything. Heavy smokers (every day/ eod) may take up to 6 weeks for it to get out of your body. The problem with drinking tons of water before you go is that the test can be failed by your urine being too clear (not yellowish) or if your creatine levels are too low. Both of these problems can be overcome by taking vitamin b-12 (provides color to uring even after drinking 2 gallons of water) and using bodybuilding creating supplements. 5 g taken 4 hours before your test will show enough creating levels in your urine regardless of 99% of your urine is water. All this is contingent on knowing that you will be tested. Ie. pre-employment testing as opposed to randow - come into my office now type testing. I personally feel that random testing is a violation of my rights (such as schools random testing athletes or regular students) but in VA you don't retain this right when employed by someone else unless you don't mind loosing your job.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 6:07:59 AM EDT
Just hold a nickle between your toes and----Oh wait---uh---nevermind. [:D]
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 6:11:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/31/2003 6:15:31 AM EDT by 2IDdoc]
Originally Posted By Paul:
Originally Posted By 2IDdoc: My wife did a huge research paper on drug testing for her masters in nursing. She did a lot of interviewing with the companies that do the drug testing. The best and sure fire way to beat the test is to put enough salt into your urine. you could have booted up Heroin before the test and it won't show. I won't give proportions of salt to body weight on this site but if the person taking the test is observed closely they won't be able to add it or any other adulterants to the urine like bleach. There is no clinical evidence that the over the counter adulterants work. However there is none to the contrary either.
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[LOLabove] Was she smoking crack while do the research! How in the hell is table salt going to mask the chemicals in urine! You're just trying to set this guy up for straigh up failure. Which some might find funny .... others might beat the living dog shit out of you. [lol]
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HAHAHA!! OK. The salt thing isn't a joke. If you put enough salt in the cupafter urination it will bond with and make inert the chemical that is detected in the drugs. I'm not making this up. Maybe it's only a certain kind of test. I'll ask my wife. And when someone calls me a Bravo Foxtrot (BUddy Fucker) it makes me want to beat the living dogshit out of them. Oh by the way her paper got an A. I'll quote some sources later when I get them.
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