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Posted: 5/28/2003 1:17:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2003 1:28:03 PM EDT by mike45acp]
lets say you got your shotgun under the seat all legal of course. so do you tell the cop you have a weapon? lets just say its a average stop for speeding. my thoughts are why tell the cops you are armed I mean it will only get you in trouble. Right? The cop will want to take it check it out, maybe accuse you of having cop killer buckshot or something stupid like that. so should you not consent to a search and have them get a warrant to find out? if they get a warrant they have to specify what they are looking for? any thoughts on this situation?
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:24:28 PM EDT
Are you asking or telling?
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:30:15 PM EDT
NEVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH!!!!!! no matter the circumstances, never, ever, ever, ever...... in most(all?) states if the officer asks, then you have to tell. if he doesn't ask don't volunteer the information.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:31:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kooter: NEVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH!!!!!!
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Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:35:15 PM EDT
but what if he asks?
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:36:21 PM EDT
Ask him why he is asking.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:36:35 PM EDT
if he no ask, you no tell.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:37:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2003 1:39:32 PM EDT by DnPRK]
As long as you are transporting legally, the answer is "Sir, there is NO contraband in my car."
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:37:43 PM EDT
ok, on a routine stop, say forgot to signal a turn, and he asks if I'm armed, and reply in the affirmative, yet am carrying or armed in a legal fashion, I would decline his request to search my vehicle. He can run my license (and CHL when I get one) and see that I have no warrants. Fine if he chooses to write me a ticket, but he will already be taking up too much of my time.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:44:38 PM EDT
"Never consent to a search" I've seen other people say the same thing on this board before. Is it really good advice? I've never been asked by a cop to search my vehicle and if I was ever asked I would ask "what you lookin' for". I got nothin' to hide but I also don't like the idea of being searched for no good reason. So, is it smart to say no to a search request? Any LEOs want to respond? Lawyers? Sorry, I don't mean to hijack.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:45:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kooter: NEVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH!!!!!! no matter the circumstances, never, ever, ever, ever......
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If he asks to search, doesn't he already have a suspicion? If you say no, he is going call the dogs and look anyway. How much does it really take for him to find a reason to get into your vehicle? If you are not hiding anything, why refuse the search? If you say no, do you think he will just say "thank you sir, you can go now"? I ask these questions due to inexperience. Personally, I have nothing to hide and could care less.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:50:15 PM EDT
I actually heard a television show recomend that you just ask, "Am I free to go now." when you are asked if they can search the vehicle. That sounds pretty dumb to me. My car is rolling probable cause, so they usually don't ask they just sit me in their car or on the hood of it, and tell me to stand by. Fortunatly I never have any guns in the car. That would make for a long afternoon.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:56:17 PM EDT
Even if I had nothing to hide: 1. I don't want to be detained beyond a few minutes 2. I don't want my car torn apart. 3. They can't just search the car, so why let them. It just greases the wheels for the time they try to search your house. 4. I don't want to practice submission.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:57:13 PM EDT
This has been discussed before. I, like you guys, don't have anything to hide. So, if I get stopped by the drug guys on IH-10, and they ask to search my vehicle, what do I do? I have a Constitutional right to be "free from unreasonable searches". I am an honest, free man. But if I say no, they will call for the drug sniffing dog and I will have to wait till they get there. The dog won't find anything since I don't do drugs. They will ask a bunch of questions, but finally either state that they have probable cause and search the car, or let me go. It would go a lot quicker if I said yes to the search and got it over with. What is the right thing to do? I'm not sure. But I believe Thomas Jefferson or George Washington would have an opinion. Want to guess what they would say?
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:59:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2003 2:00:18 PM EDT by SuperAlpha]
Do not ever consent. If you do, you are voluntarily giving up your rights. If he had probable cause, he would not need to ask, and you would probably be sitting in the back of the patrol car already.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:00:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By killingmachine123: My car is rolling probable cause...
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So is your ARFCOM screenname. [:D]
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:01:00 PM EDT
so if they do ask should you be honest?
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:03:58 PM EDT
NEVER let the drug searcher put his hands on your car. He could contaminate it, so the dog would then bark at the car, and then they have probable cause to tear it all apart! But they should have probable cause in order to detain you further until the drug dog shows up.
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: This has been discussed before. I, like you guys, don't have anything to hide. So, if I get stopped by the drug guys on IH-10, and they ask to search my vehicle, what do I do? I have a Constitutional right to be "free from unreasonable searches". I am an honest, free man. But if I say no, they will call for the drug sniffing dog and I will have to wait till they get there. The dog won't find anything since I don't do drugs. They will ask a bunch of questions, but finally either state that they have probable cause and search the car, or let me go. It would go a lot quicker if I said yes to the search and got it over with. What is the right thing to do? I'm not sure. But I believe Thomas Jefferson or George Washington would have an opinion. Want to guess what they would say?
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Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:05:20 PM EDT
Not only should you NEVER consent to a search, you should follow the refusal up by saying something like this:"No, you may not search me or my vehicle. Am I free to go?" Asking if you are free to go starts the 'clock' on how long the officer can detain you without the situation becoming a de facto arrest. If he answers no, you're now detained. There's a limit to how long he can do that. It's sort of variable depending on the circumstances--read up on the caselaw if you're interested. If he can concoct Reasonable Articulable Suspicion in that time, then he's home free...if not, the longer he delays you the more chance that the detention will be held to be 'unreasonable'. No, you may not search me or my vehicle. Am I free to go? Learn it, know it, live it.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:07:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By killingmachine123: I actually heard a television show recomend that you just ask, "Am I free to go now." when you are asked if they can search the vehicle. That sounds pretty dumb to me.
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That's not dumb, that's SMART. Ask a lawyer.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:08:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2003 2:09:03 PM EDT by thedave1164]
Depends on what the definition of "weapon" is....[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:08:49 PM EDT
Ever watch cops? They pull over some dude and ask to search the car. They look through the cab, ask to see what's in the trunk, and it's got pounds and pounds of dope inside. I will never understand those morons' thinking. "Hmmm, I'm carrying enough weed to send me up the river for 5 years, and this cop is asking permission to search my car. I think I'll let him! He'll just be suspicious if I dont."
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:14:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2003 11:25:50 AM EDT by pale_pony]
I didn't tell you this, but here go's : NEVER consent to a search unless you are absolutely sure that there is nothing of interest in the vehicle AND you're sure that the officer won't plant anything on you. NEVER do the "field" (roadside, also see "Stupid Human Tricks") sobriety test unless you are damn dead certain that there is NOTHING in your blood that would get you nailed for DUI. (This includes antihistamines, cold medications, pain medication, children's cough syrup. etc)The way you get out of this is to insist that you ARE NOT REFUSING to take a sobriety test, just that you prefer to do so IN THE PRESENCE OF YOUR ATTORNEY! Refusing the search will probably get you detained on suspicion, let your lawyer handle it. They may impound your vehicle and INVENTORY it to make sure that the arresting officer didn't "steal" anything. Let your lawyer handle it. Tell the officer "I'd rather do this in the presence of my ATTORNEY. Refusing a sobriety test will get you arrested, again let your lawyer handle it. Again, tell the officer "I'd rather do this in the presence of my attorney". NEVER CONSENT TO A BREATHALYZER!!! Most departments use an Intoxilyzer 5000 Series. The Intoxilyzer machine is said to work on the basis of infrared light absorption by alcohol detected in a person's breath. According to its manufacturer the machine determines alcohol concentration by subtracting the amount of light absorbed from the person's breath sample and then compares that amount to the amount of light originally introduced into the breath sample. The difference is the test result. It IS NOT WARRANTED BY THE MANUFACTURER TO BE ACCURATE AND IT CANNOT BE CALIBRATED BY ANYONE BUT THE MANUFACTURER (ain't that a hoot?) If you have to do a screening, INSIST ON A BLOOD TEST AND BE DAMN SURE THAT AN ADDITIONAL SAMPLE IS SENT TO A PRIVATE LAB FOR CONFIRMATION. The officer RULES the situation at the roadside, period. If you're gonna beat an officer, you have to do it in court.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:15:23 PM EDT
I concur with the "Am I free to go?" routine. If he has PC, he doesn't need your permission. In a phrase, he's fishing. He's not your friend, he's looking for a reason to further ticket or arrest you! Do you think he'll let you go if you consent and he finds something? Usually, for a search to be consentual, you must be free to go. So, ask the question. If they gave you a warning and then hand you back your DL and the non-ticket, they're trying to get you to let your guard down and think they are your friend. It usually goes something like this. Hands you the ticket/non-ticket and says, "You don't have any drugs, thermonuclear devices or rocket launchers in your car do you?" The obvious absurdity of the questions leads you to say, "Why, of course not." The best response is, "Am I free to go." Most case law says that after he gives you your license back, you are free to go and any interaction after that is of your own free will. Cops do great things like catching killers, etc.... but in a case where he asking that question, he's fishing for a reason to arrest you. Take this advice at your own risk but it is sound. Blowing for a DUI is another story due to SL laws stating if you refuse you lose your privelege to drive. So much for a right to travel. jd1
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:27:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:29:28 PM EDT
Last I heard it is not illegal to lie to a police officer either by ommission or commission in this type of situation. A friend on the local constabulary gave me the same advice as the TV show - ignore the officer's question and just ask if you are free to go. I did not ask him what to do if the officer presses. I would assume that you are within your rights to refuse to answer his question and could always respond by saying you will answer no more questions without your attorney. This all assumes that there is no visible probable cause. Although each case is different it would be nice to hear some solid advice from those in the know on how to approach the officer that is just being a jerk and continues to press his fishing expedition in different directions.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:32:04 PM EDT
there is no right to travel submit slaves
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:37:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:40:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2003 2:46:03 PM EDT by kay9]
I ususally ask about weapons on my night time stops, which is where I encounter them the most. If you are in a high crime area, in the middle of the night, have no real business in the area, and generally "look" like a dirtbag, I'm, gonna check the weapon and you out. If you look "normal", I'll say " keep it where it is and dont make any quick movements toward it", etc. Snapping back at me with any type of "I HAVE NOTHING AND YOU CANNOT LOOK!, will make me more suspicious, on top of my other "reasonable, articulable fact", and I will do my best to find out what is in the car. Detentions for dogs must be based upon reasonable suspicion, once the stop is done. If the officer is writing a ticket, the stop is not done. If the dog arrives while the stop is ongoing, he can do whatever he wants with the dog, as long as the stop is legal. This includes ordering you and your passengers out of the car. The claim of not letting the "drug searcher" lay his hands on your car is ludicrous. Much of the advise here will result in and officer taking an extra look at you and your car.
Never allow a voluntary search of your vehicle. It immediately negates all your rights.
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This is not true. If I am searching a car based upon consent, the driver can withdraw that consent at any time.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:41:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Red_Beard: there is no right to travel submit slaves
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Slave, you are wrong. Vehicles arent included in the right to travel. Walk all you want, nomad.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:43:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kay9:The claim of not letting the "drug searcher" lay his hands on your car is ludicrous.
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are you saying the "tough weed in the pocket then touch car" trick doesn't work?
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:44:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kay9:
Originally Posted By Red_Beard: there is no right to travel submit slaves
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Slave, you are wrong. Vehicles arent included in the right to travel. Walk all you want, nomad.
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all of the highways have signs saying "no pedestrians"
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:45:57 PM EDT
Guns are not weapons they are tools. If he specifically asks about firearms I would probably admit that there was a firearm in teh vehicle. But if he wants to look he needs probable cause or a warrant.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:48:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
Originally Posted By kay9:
Originally Posted By Red_Beard: there is no right to travel submit slaves
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Slave, you are wrong. Vehicles arent included in the right to travel. Walk all you want, nomad.
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all of the highways have signs saying "no pedestrians"
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Sorry, thought you would be able to make the connection all on your own. Highways are for vehicluar travel. Walk, all you want. (Except on the freeway)
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:50:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
Originally Posted By kay9:The claim of not letting the "drug searcher" lay his hands on your car is ludicrous.
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are you saying the "tough weed in the pocket then touch car" trick doesn't work?
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Yes, it would work, but is illegal, immoral and generally unwise to do so. Any handler carrying weed on his person during a sniff probably shouldnt be a handler. Any handler directly handling weed, then conducting a search shouldnt be a handler. Get it? We are not all out to get you. Boo....
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:51:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kay9:
Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
Originally Posted By kay9:
Originally Posted By Red_Beard: there is no right to travel submit slaves
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Slave, you are wrong. Vehicles arent included in the right to travel. Walk all you want, nomad.
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all of the highways have signs saying "no pedestrians"
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Sorry, thought you would be able to make the connection all on your own. Highways are for vehicluar travel. Walk, all you want. (Except on the freeway)
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in other words there is no right to travel try getting from LA to boston on foot without walking on a highway or private land
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:52:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kay9:
Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
Originally Posted By kay9:The claim of not letting the "drug searcher" lay his hands on your car is ludicrous.
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are you saying the "tough weed in the pocket then touch car" trick doesn't work?
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Yes, it would work, but is illegal, immoral and generally unwise to do so. Any handler carrying weed on his person during a sniff probably shouldnt be a handler. Any handler directly handling weed, then conducting a search shouldnt be a handler. Get it? We are not all out to get you. Boo....
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i assume anyone asking if he can search my car, and calling drug sniffing dogs to the scene is out to get me
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:55:09 PM EDT
I agree in principle, but I think that in NY you'd immediately lose your license, regardless if you would have blown a 1% or a 0.0%
Originally Posted By pale_pony: NEVER do the sobriety test unless you are damn dead certain that there is NOTHING in your blood that would get you nailed for DUI. (This includes antihistamines, cold medications, pain medication, children's cough syrup. etc)
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Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:55:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
Originally Posted By kay9:The claim of not letting the "drug searcher" lay his hands on your car is ludicrous.
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are you saying the "tough weed in the pocket then touch car" trick doesn't work?
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whats that ?
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:58:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mike45acp:
Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
Originally Posted By kay9:The claim of not letting the "drug searcher" lay his hands on your car is ludicrous.
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are you saying the "tough weed in the pocket then touch car" trick doesn't work?
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whats that ?
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the handler has some drug in his pocket, he touches it, then under the guise of showing the dog where to sniff, he touches your car, the dog alerts and they have pc and are free to search
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:58:02 PM EDT
Isn't there a considerable difference between admitting you have a firearm in the vehicle and consenting to a search? I'm not a cop and haven't ever been asked "the question" by one (actually, only got my first-ever speeding ticket earlier this month), so I would probably be straightforward about the gun(s) and refuse a search without PC or a warrant. I just applied for my CCW, so they'd know I was *likely* carrying once they ran my ID anyway.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 3:01:34 PM EDT
If you have done nothing wrong then you have nothing to hide. Civilians should not be afraid of the police. They are only looking out for the best interests of the community and resisting their requests does nothing but create an atmosphere of distrust.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 3:04:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 3:05:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl:
Originally Posted By killingmachine123: My car is rolling probable cause...
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So is your ARFCOM screenname. [:D]
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As is my ARFCOM licensplate frame and hat, my Bushmaster sticker on the rear windshield, my......
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 3:06:38 PM EDT
Good post, This is a quick story to add to it. I was in a rush on a two lane hwy doing about 70 mph when I passed a fla state trooper finishing up writing a ticket on some one else in the other direction. He pulls out and around and lights me up. (no chase, no nothing) I pull over and get the licence, regrest, and the insurance card out, roll the window down and put both hands on the steering wheel. Officer - did you know you were doing 70 in a 45? red - no I thought I was in a 55 zone. Please go easy on writing the ticket. Officer - after writing me up (he lets me off easy with a 9 mph over the limit speeding tix. Officer - do you by any chance have any weapons in you vech? red - not that this time, but if you like, I'll show you my CCW and then you are welcome to look Officer - you have a nice day, and please whatch you speed. Moral, Get you CCW and solve you transporting weapons problems. Badredfish [devil]
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 3:10:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Originally Posted By killingmachine123: I actually heard a television show recomend that you just ask, "Am I free to go now." when you are asked if they can search the vehicle. That sounds pretty dumb to me.
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That's not dumb, that's SMART. Ask a lawyer.
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I see what you are saying and I will now use this. However the way in which the show demonstrated this technique did not seem to be the most polite way that it could have been done. I guess you would have to see it. Myself and my friends joke about it to this day.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 3:19:38 PM EDT
If the dog arrives while the stop is ongoing, he can do whatever he wants with the dog, as long as the stop is legal. This includes ordering you and your passengers out of the car
with the people out of the car, can he legally let the dog inside of the vehicle? even if they refuse consent to search? i would think that would be illegal, and down right rude. i don't let my own animals in my car, much less somebody elses.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 3:21:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bvmjethead:
Originally Posted By Kooter: NEVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH!!!!!!
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Link Posted: 5/28/2003 3:26:45 PM EDT
My policy in dealing with officers in traffic stops and road blocks: Cop is polite and respectful, I am polite and respectful. Cop is cocky and rude, I am cocky and rude. 4 years ago a rookie state trooper started working in my area. His second day on the job he stopped a friend of mine on the way to school and asked for consent to search. Not knowing any better, he consented, and Officer Cocksucker proceded to tear apart the entire car. Emptied his glovebox, backpack, console, toolbox, and trunk. He found nothing and left my friends possesions scattered everywhere. 2 days later he stopped me on a BS excuse and started acting like an asshole once again. He asked for consent to search and I refused. He started the "what ya got to hide" crap and wanted to know why he couldn't search. I said "because unlike you, I value my constitutional rights." He started blabbing about dogs and warrants and I said, "You make up some PC and call for a warrant, while I call my lawyer, and we'll see which gets here first." I then picked up my cell phone and began to dial. His response was simply, "Go."
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 3:27:57 PM EDT
Why would you even ask me a question like that officer?" "Why exactly did you stop me and how long will I be detained?" "I respectfully refuse to answer any questions not directly related to my drivers license, insurance, and vehicle registration."
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 3:34:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2003 3:36:52 PM EDT by dmuldrew]
Originally Posted By kay9:
Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
Originally Posted By kay9:The claim of not letting the "drug searcher" lay his hands on your car is ludicrous.
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are you saying the "tough weed in the pocket then touch car" trick doesn't work?
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Yes, it would work, but is illegal, immoral and generally unwise to do so. Any handler carrying weed on his person during a sniff probably shouldnt be a handler. Any handler directly handling weed, then conducting a search shouldnt be a handler. Get it? We are not all out to get you. Boo....
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Oh Jeezus H Christ,gimmie a fucking break. We all know the cops are all honest upstanding citizens, or they wouldn't be cops!? Right? I noticed you said "probably shouldn't be" as opposed to "isn't" a handler. I have a friend who is a cop and a dog handler, I'll run this by him. [lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]
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