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Posted: 5/19/2003 3:51:21 PM EDT
Why would Wayne Lapierre waste his time with CNN if he didn't care about ar-15's and other assault weapons. He would just say ban them and we will keep our bolt guns. I told you he supports all guns. But some of you still think he doesn't care. Oh well just give your money to the small groups with no power. The nra gets pro-gun senate and congressmen elected. They have power.This is good for all gun owners.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 5:24:15 PM EDT
I've been meaning to page through an issue of American Rifleman and count the ads that have AR-15's in them. Wilson Combat, DPMS, Armalite, Fulton Armory, Rock River Arms, and Les Baer on a quick page-through. You can't tell me that the NRA hasn't noticed the ad dollars rolling in. That's the language they speak!
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:50:51 AM EDT
How about the run of cigarette adds. They need money to fight the cause. If not from members, get what they can from advertisers. I am sure they too are pro-gun.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:08:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By valblade: Why would Wayne Lapierre waste his time with CNN if he didn't care about ar-15's and other assault weapons. He would just say ban them and we will keep our bolt guns. I told you he supports all guns.
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NRA supports, whatever makes $$. The AWB sunsets in 11/2 years. Do you have ANY idea how much $$ the so-called "fight" will generate in fundraising??? THAT is why LaPierre is out there. You wanna support fighting organizations, go with GOA, or SAF. It ain't how big some one is, it's how EFFECTIVE they are. NRA is a losing team. Name ONE gun law they have repealed at the Federal level, without replacing it with something more onerous.
But some of you still think he doesn't care. Oh well just give your money to the small groups with no power. The nra gets pro-gun senate and congressmen elected. They have power.This is good for all gun owners.
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Keep singing your tired old tune. It leads to reauthorization of the AWB. What you advocate has not worked in the past, nor will it work now. To keep repeating the same behavior, and expect different results, is insanity.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:11:33 AM EDT
Liberty, shut up and vote republican! It's our only hope. oh...uh...sorry...wrong thread. Scott
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:16:42 AM EDT
NO matter how he personally feels about AW's I will tell you the the NRA hates liberal whinners who try to take away any guns.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 9:02:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 9:05:37 AM EDT by LoginName]
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By valblade: Why would Wayne Lapierre waste his time with CNN if he didn't care about ar-15's and other assault weapons. He would just say ban them and we will keep our bolt guns. I told you he supports all guns.
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NRA supports, whatever makes $$. The AWB sunsets in 11/2 years. Do you have ANY idea how much $$ the so-called "fight" will generate in fundraising??? THAT is why LaPierre is out there. You wanna support fighting organizations, go with GOA, or SAF. It ain't how big some one is, it's how EFFECTIVE they are. NRA is a losing team. Name ONE gun law they have repealed at the Federal level, without replacing it with something more onerous.
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How often is [b]any[/b] legislation ever repealed? (and consider that in regards to the ten's of thousands of laws enacted by Congress). We could have a huge majority of strong RKBA supporters in both houses and I can still guarantee you that repealing things like the 34 NFA, 68 GCA and Brady Bill would not happen... it would be political suicide. Yes, the NRA does compromise too much, but that's how the political process in Washington works. If the NRA isn't as effective as it is, then why do the Brady/VPC/MMM types fear and loath them so much? Can anyone make a valid argument that we'd be much better off if we didn't have the NRA? Perhaps if the GOA and JPFO had been in existence 50-70 years ago we might not have some of the laws we have now. Fact is, they weren't around back then so we'll never know if things would be different.
But some of you still think he doesn't care. Oh well just give your money to the small groups with no power. The nra gets pro-gun senate and congressmen elected. They have power.This is good for all gun owners.
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Keep singing your tired old tune. It leads to reauthorization of the AWB. What you advocate has not worked in the past, nor will it work now. To keep repeating the same behavior, and expect different results, is insanity.
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The NRA doesn't enact legislation, doesn't have any seats on any Congressional committees, doesn't vote on the bills presented... Guess who does have the above mentioned powers? If the gun friendly votes aren't there then how can anyone expect the NRA to work for and achieve the most desirable outcome for gun owners? That's why it's important to get out there and vote in the legislators that will continue to support our RKBA.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 9:14:27 AM EDT
I suspect the NRA (whom I support) is against the '94 for different reasons than we are. Remember that this is where the "high capacity" magazine bans live, and this is what impacts the most people, and thus most members. It's strange how there are so many people who are fine with your AR being banned, but are outraged by the fact that they are limited to 10 rounds in their (insert pistol here).
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:22:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scottman: Liberty, shut up and vote republican! It's our only hope. oh...uh...sorry...wrong thread. Scott
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It's spreading!!! [:D]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:25:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 10:27:41 AM EDT by valblade]
the GOA is nothing. The nra gets the right people elected. forget the presidents. the main deals are getting all the senate and congress right wingers. thats what they do. if the nra gets pro-gun guys elected its great for all hunters, aw owners and pole vaulters. some of you guys are so silly. don't listen to those small groups that have no power and don't raise a lick of money.All they do is complain about the nra instead of getting people elected.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:43:43 AM EDT
Even though we may like the PLATFORM of the "other" gun rights groups, reality is that the NRA is the only one that has significant political clout. In fact, it's the strongest lobbying force on Capitol Hill, period. No other "special interest group" has anything like the raw voting power represented by the NRA's membership and supporters. Look at the various groups that lobby on Capitol Hill. They're all fricking TINY compared to the NRA. The NRA would be PERFECT if it had the GOA's platform. Maybe we members can shift it in that direction. CJ
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:44:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LoginName: Yes, the NRA does compromise too much, but that's how the political process in Washington works.
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My God-given Constitutionally guaranteed rights are NOT part of the "political process" they're MINE!! If NRA had integrity, they would leave the table rather than compromise, and work against ALL those, (like Bush), who would trample our liberty.
If the NRA isn't as effective as it is, then why do the Brady/VPC/MMM types fear and loath them so much?
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Ever read B'rer rabbit?? Ask yourself this. NRA ALWAYS compromises. Why do the anti=gunners hate them??? (you'll get it some day)
Can anyone make a valid argument that we'd be much better off if we didn't have the NRA?
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Yes, I can. NRA is NOT a "Rights" organization. They are a safety and teaching organization. GOA and others are "Rights" organizations. If NRA wasn't compromising, Fienstien would have her way, and we would have the problem resolved by now, one way or the other. Now the process is drawn over generations. Each generation a little stupider than the last...you see where it goes. Eventually you have a bunch of cattle...look around.
Perhaps if the GOA and JPFO had been in existence 50-70 years ago we might not have some of the laws we have now. Fact is, they weren't around back then so we'll never know if things would be different.
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No, but if a million nra members quit now, and joined GOA, or SAF, imagine what could be done!
Guess who does have the above mentioned powers? That's why it's important to get out there and vote in the legislators that will continue to support our RKBA.
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Agreed...... NRA is for duck hunters, always has been, always will be.....
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:53:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: The NRA would be PERFECT if it had the GOA's platform. Maybe we members can shift it in that direction. CJ
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Better men than you and I have tried to do that for over 30 years. The duck hunters have nra in a firm grip. nra was ok in the 30's- 50's, but they are NOT ready for prime time, never will be. They are NOT a rights group, that's not their traditional function. They're a bunch of dinosaurs.....
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:58:30 AM EDT
BUSH IS NOT GOING TO SIGN THE DAM BAN HES JUST TRYING TO TAKE THE HEAT OFF UNTILL NEXT YEAR. iT WILL NEVER GET TO HIS DESK. THE NRA HAS ITS BOYS IN HIGH PLACES AND THEY TOLD ME IT IS NOT GOING TO PASS.If he said no I'm not signing it then the next year all you would see on the news is video clips of the north hollywood shoot out and people firing full auto and left wing slants. why don't you talk to the nra and ask them how they stand. Ask the pro gun congressmen(that the nra got elected)how they stand.god don't be so anti-bush. do you remember that bush hired ashcroft and hes very very progun. he told the anti-gunners to f-off.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 11:12:24 AM EDT
The NRA is definitely pro-AR-15. It is the biggest lobby in Washington. Trashing the NRA does nothing to further our cause. Join BOTH the NRA and GOA. CRC
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 11:12:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By valblade: BUSH IS NOT GOING TO SIGN THE DAM BAN HES JUST TRYING TO TAKE THE HEAT OFF UNTILL NEXT YEAR. iT WILL NEVER GET TO HIS DESK. THE NRA HAS ITS BOYS IN HIGH PLACES AND THEY TOLD ME IT IS NOT GOING TO PASS.If he said no I'm not signing it then the next year all you would see on the news is video clips of the north hollywood shoot out and people firing full auto and left wing slants. why don't you talk to the nra and ask them how they stand. Ask the pro gun congressmen(that the nra got elected)how they stand.god don't be so anti-bush. do you remember that bush hired ashcroft and hes very very progun. he told the anti-gunners to f-off.
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You are so uninformed, I'm not gonna bother. Shouldn't you be in school??
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 11:20:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By valblade: the GOA is nothing. The nra gets the right people elected. forget the presidents. the main deals are getting all the senate and congress right wingers. thats what they do. if the nra gets pro-gun guys elected its great for all hunters, aw owners and pole vaulters. some of you guys are so silly. don't listen to those small groups that have no power and don't raise a lick of money.All they do is complain about the nra instead of getting people elected.
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Pole vaulters?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 11:26:52 AM EDT
I didnt hear a peep out of the GOA about the CNN fiasco,(NRA was there) where were they.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 11:48:14 AM EDT
lib86 I will bet you $100.00 dollars that bush will not sign the ban. Put up or shut up. where the heck is the goa?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 12:14:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:12:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: Better men than you and I have tried.....
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But there ARE no better men than me! You should know that by now...! I'm the center of the universe...from my perspective, anyway. I know this because I'm always right here. The rest of you sometimes go away. CJ
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:15:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Originally Posted By liberty86: Better men than you and I have tried.....
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But there ARE no better men than me! You should know that by now...! I'm the center of the universe...from my perspective, anyway. I know this because I'm always right here. The rest of you sometimes go away. CJ
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HAHA.....IBTL!
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:38:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By valblade: lib86 I will bet you $100.00 dollars that bush will not sign the ban. Put up or shut up. where the heck is the goa?
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If the bill makes it to his desk, I will bet you $100.00 that Bush will sign it. Perhaps we can get a reputable person here to hold the $$ until Sept. 2004. If the bill doesn't make to him, no bet. If it makes it to him he will sign it. I can pay-pal the $$ to someone tonight. Let me know if you wish to lose more...[;D]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 11:35:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: Even though we may like the PLATFORM of the "other" gun rights groups, reality is that the NRA is the only one that has significant political clout. In fact, it's the strongest lobbying force on Capitol Hill, period. No other "special interest group" has anything like the raw voting power represented by the NRA's membership and supporters. Look at the various groups that lobby on Capitol Hill. They're all fricking TINY compared to the NRA.
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The Jewish Lobby is the most powerful lobby in the US, though the NRA is second. Hint: that's why over 5 billion of your tax dollars goes to Israel every year.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:34:58 AM EDT
I read that the AARP lobby is the most influential in d.c.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:16:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By valblade: lib86 I will bet you $100.00 dollars that bush will not sign the ban. [red]Put up or shut up.[/red] where the heck is the goa?
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Yoo Hoo!.........anybody home??? [;D]
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:32:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: My God-given Constitutionally guaranteed rights are NOT part of the "political process" they're MINE!! If NRA had integrity, they would leave the table rather than compromise, and work against ALL those, (like Bush), who would trample our liberty.
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That is just plain naive.
No, but if a million nra members quit now, and joined GOA, or SAF, imagine what could be done!
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Yeah, Brady II, Nationwide Registration, Ballistic Fingerprinting and what ever other twisted ideas the Brady Bunch could imagine.
NRA is for duck hunters, always has been, always will be.....
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The NRA is for ALL gun owners. Join and fight for what you believe in. I'm sure my letters carry more weight than yours. Mine start something like this: "I am a life member, certified instructor and I have donated X dollars..." If a letter starts like this, how much attention will it get: "I am not a member because you suck..."
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:42:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:52:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 6:53:29 AM EDT by Zaphod]
Originally Posted By Q3131A:
Originally Posted By liberty86: My God-given Constitutionally guaranteed rights are NOT part of the "political process" they're MINE!! If NRA had integrity, they would leave the table rather than compromise, and work against ALL those, (like Bush), who would trample our liberty.
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That is just plain naive.
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So are most of his political views. Noble, but naive. He wants us to abandon the one political party that gives us any chance at all in our struggle, simply because it's not perfect (in HIS view). Now he wants us to abandon the one organization that defends us the most visibly, again because it's not perfect in HIS view. Sometimes I wonder if Liberty's a DUh troll. Then again, go to far to the right or left and you end up in the same place... Edited to add: BTW, WTH is a 'cane doing in Virginia? I thought UM grads never left this (expletive deleted) town! [;)]
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 8:02:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Edited to add: BTW, WTH is a 'cane doing in Virginia? I thought UM grads never left this (expletive deleted) town! [;)]
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Lots of Canes up here in the Old Dominion. While I miss FL, I like it up here. Just need some better football. Or at least more Canes on the Redskins. TBS, My letters get answered (not always the way I would like). My calls get returned. My voice is heard. The NRA does what it can to address my concerns. If they don't try and defeat the ban, they know they will lose my support. Does that mean that they will change their orginization to meet my requests? No. But it means they will do what they can to meet my requests. More than they will do for someone who is not a member.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 8:07:15 AM EDT
I'm afraid my loving wife is as attached to this shithole as if she were welded..... [i]Sigh....[/i]
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 8:20:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 8:21:07 AM EDT by Q3131A]
Originally Posted By Zaphod: I'm afraid my loving wife is as attached to this shithole as if she were welded..... [i]Sigh....[/i]
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Hey, FL ain't so bad: Legal MGs, CCW, ARs OK. There are a lot worse places. She could be in love with NJ, MA, IL or CA. Miami has good food, coffee and fishing. Damn, I miss the fishing. Edited to add: Low taxes as well.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 8:34:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Q3131A: Hey, FL ain't so bad: Legal MGs, CCW, ARs OK. There are a lot worse places. She could be in love with NJ, MA, IL or CA.
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I wouldn't have married her! [:D]
Miami has good food, coffee and fishing. Damn, I miss the fishing. Edited to add: Low taxes as well.
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No doubt! I just wish I could live in Naples or something... Sorry for the hijack....
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 8:58:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Sometimes I wonder if Liberty's a DUh troll.
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I doubt that a DUh troll would buy a Ferret .50 BMG upper for an AR-15. Liberty is sincere, but misguided in my opinion.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:00:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf:
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Sometimes I wonder if Liberty's a DUh troll.
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I doubt that a DUh troll would buy a Ferret .50 BMG upper for an AR-15. Liberty is sincere, but misguided in my opinion.
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Fair enough. I stand corrected...
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:05:34 AM EDT
The NRA in the late 1980's and early 1990's was weak. More of a "Fish and Game" club back then. Its finances were a mess and membership was low. They compromised on the AWB and the Brady bill. The best they could do back then was to get a sunset on the AWB and NICS on the Brady bill. Look what they were up against too, '93 and '94. A president, congress, and senate that was hostile to the 2nd Amendment. The AWB and Brady bill finally got through when they knew the president would not veto it. All that changed in Nov 1994. The GOP took control of congress and the senate. Now, no more new gun control laws would make it to the president's desk. He certainly would sign them too. The NRA pushed for the rule of law when Billy tried to use NICS as a gun registry data base. The more the liberal democrats pushed for new gun control, the more pwerfull the NRA became. Probably because of the push for new gun control. Now the NRA (which was originally a promotional and safety organization) had a congress, a senate, and an Attorney General on their side. The president will sign reauthorization of the AWB only if it makes it to his desk, and after it has been proven to reduce crime (which so far it hasn't). The NRA is fighting to keep the AWB sunset. They have the political clout now to get it done. Some day, I would like to see the NRA put all its energy and resources for promoting the shooting sports, and safe handling of firearms. It is a dream I have. Bilster
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:08:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bilster: Some day, I would like to see the NRA put all its energy and resources for promoting the shooting sports, and safe handling of firearms. It is a dream I have.
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Amen, my friend! Won't that be a great day!
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:13:06 AM EDT
The problem with GOA is there's just not enough RKBA zealots in that organization to make it able to sway Congress in our favor. The problem with the NRA is there's just not enough RKBA zealots in that organization to make it able to sway Congress in our favor. Maybe there's nothing wrong with either GOA or NRA - maybe the problem is there's just not enough RKBA zealots in the whole NATION to sway Congress in our favor. Or better yet, maybe the RKBA zealots are just too disorganized and clumsy to draw more supporters. If all the RKBA/Constitutional zealots in both the NRA and GOA got together, pooled our resources and all voted for Ron Paul for President, he'd get about 2 million votes and the Repub and Dem would split up the remaining 98 million votes with Repub getting maybe a couple million less than the Dem.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:45:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By bilster: Some day, I would like to see the NRA put all its energy and resources for promoting the shooting sports, and safe handling of firearms. It is a dream I have.
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Amen, my friend! Won't that be a great day!
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Yes it would be. Unfortunately we live in the real world (or some kind of Matrix thingy) with all sorts who actively prevent what we desire from happening. BTW Valblade, how are your balls doing? [:D]
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