Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 5/12/2003 4:30:29 AM EDT
Robbers hit bar; patron shoots -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Police charge him with felony assault By Howard Wilkinson The Cincinnati Enquirer McKinney Ordinarily, the more than 500 members of the Citizens on Patrol Program walk the streets of 21 Cincinnati neighborhoods on the lookout for crime, carrying nothing more than a police radio and a cell phone. Thursday night, at a Northside bar, one of those patrol members, 54-year-old Harold McKinney, found some crime. And he was carrying a semiautomatic pistol. Police say McKinney shot an 18-year-old Walnut Hills man, Joseph Person, while Person and DeMeico Hester, 18, also of Walnut Hills, were attempting an armed robbery of Junker's Tavern on Langland Avenue shortly after 11 p.m. Person was shot in the head and remained in critical condition Friday afternoon at University Hospital. Hester, police said, fled the bar after his partner was shot. He was found later hiding in the heating shaft of a coin laundry next door. Person was charged with two counts of aggravated robbery. Hester was charged with one count of aggravated robbery. But police also charged McKinney with felonious assault and carrying a weapon inside a tavern. He remains in the Hamilton County Justice Center on no bond. He will be arraigned at 9 a.m. today in Hamilton County Municipal Court. Police said Friday that COPP members are told plainly that they are never to carry weapons and to never intervene in a crime in progress. "When he did that, he was not a member of COPP,'' said Officer Eric Franz, who trains COPP members in how to patrol their neighborhoods. "He was just a guy in a bar.'' All the COPP recruits are told "over and over again'' that they are not to try to stop criminals themselves: They are supposed to call the police. The motto of the COPP program is straightforward: "See it, hear it, report it.'' COPP volunteers go through a 20-hour training program that includes 12 hours of classroom work and eight hours of "ride-alongs" with Cincinnati police officers. Franz said he does not know McKinney well but said he remembers him going through the training. "I don't know what this guy was thinking," Franz said. "Whatever he did, he did on his own. It has nothing to do with what has been a successful program. These people have been our eyes and ears." Thursday night, McKinney was one of a handful of patrons in the bar when two men in hoods that hid their faces walked in waving handguns. One of them, according to witnesses, pointed a gun at a 68-year-old woman who was tending bar and shouted, "This is a robbery. Nobody move.'' Todman Emmons, 39, of Northside was standing at the bar talking to his roommate and McKinney when the two gunmen entered. At first, he said, he thought it was a joke, but it became very real when one of the men wheeled around and pointed a gun directly in his face. "It was all over real quick,'' Emmons said. "The one guy was pointing a gun at me and the other guy was behind the bar, trying to open the register. Then, Hal (McKinney) pulls his gun and shoots.'' Emmons and his roommate held the wounded man on the floor of the bar until police arrived minutes later. Police found the $16 one of the robbers had taken off the bar. Emmons said he knew McKinney was a member of the neighborhood's citizen patrol. "He's always been a real good member of the community,'' he said. He has mixed feeling about what transpired at Junker's. If the armed robbers hadn't been stopped, Emmons said, "a lot of innocent people might have been hurt. It could have been a whole lot worse than it was. "I can't condone what (McKinney) did,'' he said, "but I can't condemn it either.''
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 5:02:16 AM EDT
What do you want to bet that the piece of shit who robbed the bar makes bail before McKinney does? Are the people of Cincinnati really a bunch of mewling pussies, or am I reading too much into this article?
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 5:09:25 AM EDT
What is even sadder, is that McKinney will be charged with murder if Person dies. And the sheeple go marching one by one.......
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 5:22:58 AM EDT
The motto of the COPP program is straightforward: "See it, hear it, report it."
View Quote
Maybe they should append "wait for the police to be late for it" to that. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 5:32:10 AM EDT
The cops don't want any competition. Cincy is a sewer and as long as this kind of insanity continues, it will get worse. Personally, I am disappointed he didn't KILL both scumbags.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 5:44:14 AM EDT
Franz said he does not know McKinney well but said he remembers him going through the training. "I don't know what this guy was thinking," Franz said. Thursday night, McKinney was one of a handful of patrons in the bar when two men in hoods that hid their faces walked in [red]waving handguns.[/red] One of them, according to witnesses, [red]pointed a gun at a 68-year-old woman[/red] who was tending bar and shouted, "This is a robbery. Nobody move.'' Todman Emmons, 39, of Northside was standing at the bar talking to his roommate and McKinney when the two gunmen entered. At first, he said, he thought it was a joke, but it became very real when one of the men wheeled around and [red]pointed a gun directly in his face.[/red]
View Quote
What the fuck is wrong with these people? It's a shame so many people think being a victim is just a part of life. One brave man decided he wasn't going to let that happen and now he's in jail. Very sad indeed.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 5:45:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scottman: Police said Friday that COPP members are told plainly that they are never to carry weapons and to never intervene in a crime in progress.
View Quote
Sounds to me like just an elaborate scam to brainwash the citizens into thinking that they're being little helpers while the "big bad police" will handle any problems. If these charges hold, it will just be yet another example of who assinine the laws can be.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 6:01:57 AM EDT
Its pretty clear by Michigan's CCW laws anyway, no guns in bars. He would also be charged in Michigan. Just as a side note Ohio doesnt recognize Michigan CCWs.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 6:39:12 AM EDT
I don't have a problem with him being charged with Carrying in a bar. Now that said the rest of it shouldn't even have been an issue. Hell in Ohio the affirmative defence BS says something to the effect of 'where a reasonable person would go armed' I can't see a better argument that it was VERY reasonable to be armed since people are robbing the place [;D] I know that ain't going to hold water but what the hell. Part about this that really hits home is my folks neighbor walked OUT of the bar just as the two punks were walking in. Would have been two armed defenders if they'd been there 3 minutes earlier.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 6:45:29 AM EDT
ohio law prohibits firearms from establishments that serve alcohol. there is some good and some bad in that law. personally, i believe guns and booze is a dangerous combination. drunk & armed? even buzzed up and armed? i don't think so. i do know some tavern owners that keep a piece (or several) behind the counter, and i can't fault the logic in that. as far as common sense and my opinion of this incident (based on the story), i'm with mickey. too bad he didn't nail both of the robbers. ohio does not have ccw, yet.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 6:46:25 AM EDT
The sad reality is that because of the shooter having carried in a bar illegally, he's likely opened himself to civil litigation. The perp will get off with a lighter sentence, and then sue the shooter for a bunch of money.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 6:50:40 AM EDT
These are sad times we live in folks. The criminals have more rights than we do. The BG probably will make bail before Mckinney. Certainly Mckinney faces more jail time than the scumbag does, especially if the other scumbag dies.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 6:53:43 AM EDT
My favorite part was the douchebag bartender: "I can't condone what he did". Look Douchebag! What Mckinney did was probably save you ass from terminal lead poisoning.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 7:10:12 AM EDT
"I can't condone what (McKinney) did,''
View Quote
That is until he and the patrons were forced into a freezer and shot execution style. THEN, they'd change their tune quick. Innocent people have been murdered for much much less..
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 7:18:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thedave1164: What is even sadder, is that McKinney will be charged with murder if Person dies. And the sheeple go marching one by one.......
View Quote
We should continue to vote for those who pass these laws. It's the only hope we have to change them....[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 7:21:08 AM EDT
Just goes to show what happens when you try to help other people. I wish it were the way things used to be and a brave man stood down a creep and was honored for it. But it isn't. No good deed goes unpunished. If it had been more involved or, more likely in another venue such as a Wallyworld, you'd have sheeple complaining about this defender putting THEM in danger. I'm sure there will be talk about the "vigilante groups" now. Call the police and go away. If they are late, let the pussies get the consequences of their beliefs and votes. If it involves you or your family blow the SOB away and walk away. There have been a number of threads on this board about defending other people. Some who believed in old fashioned, decent values talk about helping and defending others. Take a lesson ffrom these events and others even more ridiculous and serious. Lett the sheeple suffer their consequences, not protect them so they can toddle along in their fairy-tale world and think YOU the bad guy.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 9:07:45 AM EDT
COmplete self defense. What if the perp WAS gonna take them all the the back and execute them??? BS from cincy. TXL
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 10:08:09 AM EDT
I refer to Cincinnati as "Detroit-lite", since it sems headed down the same path. Mayor Luken is a patheitc pandering asshole liberal who has turned the city into a no man's land for tax payers. Had these crooks not been stopped the outcome could have been much different. Why did they target the bar in the first place? Probably because they knew the patrons were (supposed to be) unarmed. I say give the guy a medal...
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 2:15:36 PM EDT
The funny part of these laws is that as Campybob pointed out, the bar employees can carry. Not the customers. I guess they presume that the servers and owners will not be drinking. Also no one has said what these guys were armed with. If they were killing people I think he would not have been charged. If they had knives for example and only wanted some money, you let them have the money and let them leave. Its pretty clear what they want you to know when they give you your CCW. This guy didnt listen. Now if you are in Texas and its dark out...fire away!
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 2:27:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB: ...ohio does not have ccw, yet.
View Quote
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 2:39:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARDOC: Its pretty clear by Michigan's CCW laws anyway, no guns in bars. He would also be charged in Michigan. Just as a side note Ohio doesnt recognize Michigan CCWs.
View Quote
Great. Are the perps going to be charged with that violation too?
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 2:45:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARDOC: Also no one has said what these guys were armed with.
View Quote
R.I.F.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 2:47:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB: ohio law prohibits firearms from establishments that serve alcohol....
View Quote
Too bad the robbers didn't obey that one. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 4:31:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB: ohio law prohibits firearms from establishments that serve alcohol.
View Quote
Many states with CCW laws do as well
Top Top