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Posted: 4/17/2016 4:06:24 AM EDT
[#1]
Very cool find indeed..........
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Posted: 4/17/2016 4:15:46 AM EDT
[#2]
Awesome find!
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Posted: 4/17/2016 1:04:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have some work to do OP: I would try to run down the families of those who signed the flag and show it to them. What a great find/piece of history. I was thinking the same thing! I need to get some much better pics of it if I ever get to see it in person. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 1:15:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were still doing it in the 80's. At least the photographers were. This was from 1988 when I transitioned from Reserves to Active duty (which is why I'm wearing a shoulder patch) at Fort Benning. I had to go through Repo Depot with all the new 'cruits so had to do the picture thing again. My original pic from 1986 has the c*nt cap cockeyed way off to the side too (even though we weren't allowed to wear them like that, the photographers were obsessed with it). I actually fought the photographer over this one and kept straightening it out, even told him he's making us look like clowns, but his fashion sense was just too "FABULOUSS" to win the argument. We kinda met 50/50, he wanted it almost hanging off the side of our heads. http://i64.tinypic.com/1zpplzs.jpg Grampa's was a little cockeyed too. This was the weekend he came home in '45. I also have ove of his brother and the hat is so far off to the side I don't know how it's staying on his head. http://i56.tinypic.com/107p5s9.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anyone else notice the sideways EGA? With the crooked cover, that might just be a picture from his Marine buddies get him lit up. That was the fashion back then. My FIL (I never met him-he died years before I married his daughter) was in the Army during WWII, and his picture was taken in his "class A" service uniform with his cover tilted way the fuck over on his gord. They were still doing it in the 80's. At least the photographers were. This was from 1988 when I transitioned from Reserves to Active duty (which is why I'm wearing a shoulder patch) at Fort Benning. I had to go through Repo Depot with all the new 'cruits so had to do the picture thing again. My original pic from 1986 has the c*nt cap cockeyed way off to the side too (even though we weren't allowed to wear them like that, the photographers were obsessed with it). I actually fought the photographer over this one and kept straightening it out, even told him he's making us look like clowns, but his fashion sense was just too "FABULOUSS" to win the argument. We kinda met 50/50, he wanted it almost hanging off the side of our heads. http://i64.tinypic.com/1zpplzs.jpg Grampa's was a little cockeyed too. This was the weekend he came home in '45. I also have ove of his brother and the hat is so far off to the side I don't know how it's staying on his head. http://i56.tinypic.com/107p5s9.jpg what a fucking retarted. that shut only works uf your strap is undone. You just look like you dont know how to adjust your shit. sorry op |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 1:17:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That seems like the most plausible explanation, especially after looking at the regs from back then. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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he was assigned to 2/6, which is still around. Regimental HQ is off River Rd at MCB Camp Lejeune, NC. I used to work behind them at MSB, RSU just past the traffic circle. 2nd Bn ,6th Marine Rgt., 2nd MarDiv. 2nd MarDiv used to be at Camp Pendleton at some point before they ended up in NC. I believe the "indian head" insignia was adopted from the Army's 2nd Infantry Div. during WWI. The only thing I can fathom was that your grandpa was allowed to take a picture in a dress blue jacket and cover after graduating from FMSSS or whatever it's called or was called back in WWII, where USN Corpsmen went to learn how to work "green side" with the Marines. In boot camp, we did the same thing in terms of pictures in third phase for our "graduation photo", and the jacket was a cut-down version of the dress blue uniform that only went down to about the middle of the torso. You couldn't tell by the way the picture was taken. The "dress blue" garments were designed to get a hundred or so recruits through the photography process in 45 minutes or less. A lot of things in the Corps are the same from that era, but a lot of things have changed since then too. Nothing would surprise me in terms of a USN Corpsman assigned to a Marine infantry battalion wearing dress blues for a picture during WWII. That seems like the most plausible explanation, especially after looking at the regs from back then. Don't let that get in the way of the stolen valor crusaders 
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:10:55 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WTF I'm not poor, I'm highly educated and well paid, and I direct a large portion of my income into savings. Can you guys never restrain yourself from acting like a hard on? Being a humorless drone and compulsive rule follower is not a manly personality trait, it's the product of neurotic hysteria. You know perfectly well that this throwaway joke I made does not reflect negatively on me in any way, and by pretending otherwise you fool nobody. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Are you sure that the picture is the same person? The photo is a Marine, not a Navy Corpsman. But apparently it is kosher: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/115445-usmc-dress-blues-with-navy-ratings-insignia/ http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_07_2011/post-214-1310613180.jpg are you being serious? that uniform is about as "kosher" as a 3 dollar bill. I'm far from an expert on such stuff but I will officially bet you my life savings, all 124 billion dollars, that the US Navy has Navy dress uniforms for Navy personnel. *Only* 124 billion USD? I didn't think being poor was something people bragged about, but I guess people have no pride in themselves anymore  WTF I'm not poor, I'm highly educated and well paid, and I direct a large portion of my income into savings. Can you guys never restrain yourself from acting like a hard on? Being a humorless drone and compulsive rule follower is not a manly personality trait, it's the product of neurotic hysteria. You know perfectly well that this throwaway joke I made does not reflect negatively on me in any way, and by pretending otherwise you fool nobody. It was a joke. Now quite bragging about living in abject poverty. GD isn't the Left Bank
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:12:37 AM EDT
[#7]
DD 214. Find his unit history. Get ribbons to match what he had (if you don't have the originals). Shadow box! Your kids will love it.
Banzai! (I keeeeeed). ETA: Wash hands with hot soap and water before handling. This keeps the oils off from the material. When you display it, keep it out of the sun since the UV will fade it. Don't let moisture build up in the display case/box and display and store it flat. If you let it hang, the weight will stretch the material. The material you place it against should be PH neutral and if any paper is used, make sure it is acid free. I learned all of this stuff from a textile conservators at a major museum. Take extensive photographs and keep that in a separate and secure place. In case there's a theft, so long as a police report is made, recovery will be easier for you or your descendants. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:16:11 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the funniest things I can remember was talking to a WW2 vet that joined the Navy at the tail end of the war. He served as a non-rate on an LST and brought GIs into Japan after the war and one night after a couple of beers he said to me that he wished he's learned a trade in the Navy. "I was going to be a Corpsman and when we were gathering up to start the class they dropped the bomb and a week or so they cancelled the class and shipped us out to the fleet. I wound up on an LST hauling GIs and Marines into Japan and then we hauled a bunch of Japs back to Japan. I wish I had gone through that school." "You dumb shit," I said. "They were going to hand you a .45 and send you out with the Marines to invade Japan!" "No. I was in the Navy," he replied. "Ever see the picture of the Marines raising the flag on Iwo Jima? Know how many Marines were in the picture?" "Six," he replied. "Try five and a Navy Corpsman," I answered. "You were headed to be sent to a Marine outfit to invade Japan!" His jaw fell and he went into shock. "I never thought about that," he replied. He turned white. Sixty-five years after the fact. I've told this here before but my Dad was in the Pacific and they were doing remedial training for beach landings to prep for X-Day in Japan. They got the whole 'look to your left and right, only one of you will be coming back' talk. Then Truman dropped the bombs. Dad is a lifelong Republican but still says Harry is his favorite President. None of those guys (who were sane) had any wish to hit those beaches. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:28:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Awesome find and a family treasure now.
As a USN guy I wore woodland camo, woodland hat, and black crows and I was on the Airdale side. Dependent on what and where I was my working uniform resembled USMC and I trained with USMC, actually most branches I did training with. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:34:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Wow that fricken cool! Good bless your grandfather for his service
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:40:17 AM EDT
[#11]
Is the name McIlroy on that flag? My cousin was also a corpsman on those campaigns, including Saipan and Nagasaki.
He has actually told quite a few stories about his service. 9 Purple Hearts! |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:44:13 AM EDT
[#12]
That is a true treasure. RIP, hero Grandpa.
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:58:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That needs to be preserved and put in a display case. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:27:23 AM EDT
[#14]
Anyone else notice the second name to the right (from the top) on that flag? From Mexico?
I thought Mexico was neutral during the war? That is the first time I've seen any reference to someone from Mexico being in the war zone alongside US personnel. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:39:17 AM EDT
[#15]
That is cool, here is the one I got from my Grandfather. He got it out of the helmet
of the man that tried to kill him.  |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:44:12 AM EDT
[#16]
Can you get any more pics of the signatures? My granddad was there around then!
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:47:59 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is cool, here is the one I got from my Grandfather. He got it out of the helmet of the man that tried to kill him. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/banditman1/flag.jpg Read my previous post about preservation and conservation. Also, if it can be stored flat (not folded up or rolled up), that is the best way to store them. You don't want to permanently crease the fabric. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:49:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Great find; great thread.
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:52:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That needs to be preserved and put in a display case. this, have it done proper. Have it done by someone who knows how to do a museum quality framing, the whole 9 yards, acid free backing, UV resistant glass, and stretched properly. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:53:33 AM EDT
[#20]
The way they used to tilt their covers back then was pimp as fuck.
Still allowed I believe, but I never saw it practiced. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:55:26 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the funniest things I can remember was talking to a WW2 vet that joined the Navy at the tail end of the war. He served as a non-rate on an LST and brought GIs into Japan after the war and one night after a couple of beers he said to me that he wished he's learned a trade in the Navy. "I was going to be a Corpsman and when we were gathering up to start the class they dropped the bomb and a week or so they cancelled the class and shipped us out to the fleet. I wound up on an LST hauling GIs and Marines into Japan and then we hauled a bunch of Japs back to Japan. I wish I had gone through that school." "You dumb shit," I said. "They were going to hand you a .45 and send you out with the Marines to invade Japan!" "No. I was in the Navy," he replied. "Ever see the picture of the Marines raising the flag on Iwo Jima? Know how many Marines were in the picture?" "Six," he replied. "Try five and a Navy Corpsman," I answered. "You were headed to be sent to a Marine outfit to invade Japan!" His jaw fell and he went into shock. "I never thought about that," he replied. He turned white. Sixty-five years after the fact. Yep. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 11:01:21 AM EDT
[#22]
OP, I've helped many people, including an Arfcommer, get their relatives records. You need to do it, it's fascinating. I'm a WWII USMC collector and I request records for every named item I acquire. There was a fire in the 70's that burned most Army and Air Corps records, but USMC and Navy are mostly intact.
Print this form. Then send it where the instructions tell you to. IM me if you need help. 
ETA: As has been posted, yes a WWII Corpsman would in some situations and units be allowed to wear USMC Alphas (Greens). Shit was different then. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 11:03:53 AM EDT
[#23]
You grandfather was a badass among badasses.
Read about some of those battles OP. You will understand why he didn't talk about it  |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 11:12:17 AM EDT
[#24]
Pearl Harbor > Marshall Islands > Guam > Saipan > Okinawa > Nagasaki. Thats a hell of a resume.
I had 3 great uncles on Luzon, Okinawa and Iwo. They told my dad some amazing stories, sadly the last surviving passed when I was an infant. Excellent post OP |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 1:39:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you get any more pics of the signatures? My granddad was there around then! I will as soon as time allows. It is in my uncle's possession who lives an hour away. I plan to photo each individual signature. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 1:41:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Awesome!
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Posted: 4/22/2016 1:41:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, I've helped many people, including an Arfcommer, get their relatives records. You need to do it, it's fascinating. I'm a WWII USMC collector and I request records for every named item I acquire. There was a fire in the 70's that burned most Army and Air Corps records, but USMC and Navy are mostly intact. Print this form. Then send it where the instructions tell you to. IM me if you need help.
ETA: As has been posted, yes a WWII Corpsman would in some situations and units be allowed to wear USMC Alphas (Greens). Shit was different then. Thanks much for this! And thanks to everyone else for the kind words! |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 1:44:03 PM EDT
[#28]
What I like best is the cocked-to-the-side cover
Just because I'm a smart ass and I like old things I basically wore my Kevlar "John Wayne Iwo Jima" style the entire war in Iraq. Well, except during night OP's ....NVG didn't sit straight
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Posted: 4/22/2016 1:44:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Cool stuff.
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Posted: 4/22/2016 1:44:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will as soon as time allows. It is in my uncle's possession who lives an hour away. I plan to photo each individual signature. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can you get any more pics of the signatures? My granddad was there around then! I will as soon as time allows. It is in my uncle's possession who lives an hour away. I plan to photo each individual signature. Look for the name Strickland, please. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 1:51:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, I've helped many people, including an Arfcommer, get their relatives records. You need to do it, it's fascinating. I'm a WWII USMC collector and I request records for every named item I acquire. There was a fire in the 70's that burned most Army and Air Corps records, but USMC and Navy are mostly intact. Print this form. Then send it where the instructions tell you to. IM me if you need help.
ETA: As has been posted, yes a WWII Corpsman would in some situations and units be allowed to wear USMC Alphas (Greens). Shit was different then. Any luck with stuff destroyed in a fire? We tried getting ahold of my grandfathers records but were told they were destroyed in a large fire that took out hundreds of thousands of records. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 2:00:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Perhaps the nickname "Doc" is misleading and everyone assumes he was a Corpman. As the OP does not know what MOS he was.
Time to request his records... |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 2:13:38 PM EDT
[#33]
My grandfather was in the Navy as a medic. He said they were all put on a line and went down the line "navy, marines, navy, marines" telling all the medics who they were going to be with. He was picked to be with the Marines and was in the Phillipines, Iwo Jima ect Only thing I have from him are his dog tags which I also wore while I served despite it being frowned upon. There are pictures of him in a Navy uniform as well as Marines.
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Posted: 4/22/2016 2:14:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any luck with stuff destroyed in a fire? We tried getting ahold of my grandfathers records but were told they were destroyed in a large fire that took out hundreds of thousands of records. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
OP, I've helped many people, including an Arfcommer, get their relatives records. You need to do it, it's fascinating. I'm a WWII USMC collector and I request records for every named item I acquire. There was a fire in the 70's that burned most Army and Air Corps records, but USMC and Navy are mostly intact. Print this form. Then send it where the instructions tell you to. IM me if you need help.
ETA: As has been posted, yes a WWII Corpsman would in some situations and units be allowed to wear USMC Alphas (Greens). Shit was different then. Any luck with stuff destroyed in a fire? We tried getting ahold of my grandfathers records but were told they were destroyed in a large fire that took out hundreds of thousands of records. Some of it available. Hit and miss. My Grandfather, who is buried in the Philippines, was Army Air Corp Staff Sergeant. I was able to get some records, but most were lost. I had better luck with family buried in Arlington. Cool stuff OP. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 7:17:23 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any luck with stuff destroyed in a fire? We tried getting ahold of my grandfathers records but were told they were destroyed in a large fire that took out hundreds of thousands of records. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
OP, I've helped many people, including an Arfcommer, get their relatives records. You need to do it, it's fascinating. I'm a WWII USMC collector and I request records for every named item I acquire. There was a fire in the 70's that burned most Army and Air Corps records, but USMC and Navy are mostly intact. Print this form. Then send it where the instructions tell you to. IM me if you need help.
ETA: As has been posted, yes a WWII Corpsman would in some situations and units be allowed to wear USMC Alphas (Greens). Shit was different then. Any luck with stuff destroyed in a fire? We tried getting ahold of my grandfathers records but were told they were destroyed in a large fire that took out hundreds of thousands of records. My grandfather served 1954-1959 in the Army, and when I ordered his records in 2011 or so, the copies they sent had visibly burned edges on the originals. I'd known about the fire, but didn't know that some were damaged and salvaged. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 7:18:49 PM EDT
[#36]
That is awesome. Pure awesome.
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Posted: 4/22/2016 7:42:03 PM EDT
[#37]
Cool find, I love history like that.
Maybe you history buffs can verify this practice but, according to my FIL, Navy ships had a "battle flag" and a normal flag. My FIL's father (wife's grandfather) got to bring home the last "battle flag" that flew over his destroyer during WWII. He was an enlisted sailor and the guy who was supposed to lower the colors that day was sick so this man took his place. When he retrieved the flag he took it to his officer who told him "you can keep it, we're all going home". That same ship fought several times in both the Atlantic & Pacific. My FIL keeps it in his safe but I'd like to get it matted and framed for him if he ever lets me. I've seen it, it is huge. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:22:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Many years ago the tv show, sixty minutes, did a part on the records center in St. Louis. A vet had written in for his records and had received a form letter saying they were burned up.
Inside was a hand written note that said something like, these people working here are to lazy to go to the files. Your records are most likely here. Give it a try and don't give up. Semper Fidelis, Tippy |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:36:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
My grandpa was USMC during WW2, and as usual, didn't talk about it much. The only war story I remember him telling me was when he landed in Japan 2 weeks after the bombs were dropped. He described to me the landscape and what not but no more details than that. He never even mentioned his MOS. My grandpa passed away in 1995. Today, my uncle was doing some spring cleaning and when going through his shed found a box of my grandpa's containing pics and what not that he has never seen. I can't wait to see these pics for myself. Anyway, along with the pictures my uncle found this Japanese flag signed by many of the guys my grandpa served with. Apparently Eddie "Doc" Sego, my grandpa, was a corpsman. http://i.imgur.com/fCcJ5Cz.jpg http://i.imgur.com/GyQdcN9.jpg A period pic of my grandpa, just because. http://i.imgur.com/ueZCX5u.jpg Please tell your Uncle that it needs to be preserved and saved. I am in "if approved by ARFCOM" to make sure that happens |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:42:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Very cool
I know someone who's grandfather has a box full of gold rings taken off of German dead off of the battlefield. Most are twisted from shrapnel and bullets,kinda creepy looking at them |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:44:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've seen pics of USN Corpsmen attached to Marines wearing a USMC Dress Greens with USN insignia in places but never the Dress Blues. But apparently it is kosher: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/115445-usmc-dress-blues-with-navy-ratings-insignia/ http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_07_2011/post-214-1310613180.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Are you sure that the picture is the same person? The photo is a Marine, not a Navy Corpsman. But apparently it is kosher: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/115445-usmc-dress-blues-with-navy-ratings-insignia/ http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_07_2011/post-214-1310613180.jpg Corpsman with the fleet can do whatever the hell they want. Try to tell them differently and you better be ready to deal with a lot of over-protective grunts. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:46:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone else notice the sideways EGA? With the crooked cover, that might just be a picture from his Marine buddies get him lit up. Yup. He probably saved more than a few of them and never bought a drink again Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:20:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many years ago the tv show, sixty minutes, did a part on the records center in St. Louis. A vet had written in for his records and had received a form letter saying they were burned up. Inside was a hand written note that said something like, these people working here are to lazy to go to the files. Your records are most likely here. Give it a try and don't give up. Semper Fidelis, Tippy Interesting. It does seem like an "easy out" for someone who's too lazy working at the records center. My buddy was stationed there shortly after the fire in St. Louis, and like I said, my grandfathers records were singed on the edges, so it did happen. But, I have no doubt lazy assholes would use it to get out of work. 
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:37:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. It does seem like an "easy out" for someone who's too lazy working at the records center. My buddy was stationed there shortly after the fire in St. Louis, and like I said, my grandfathers records were singed on the edges, so it did happen. But, I have no doubt lazy assholes would use it to get out of work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Many years ago the tv show, sixty minutes, did a part on the records center in St. Louis. A vet had written in for his records and had received a form letter saying they were burned up. Inside was a hand written note that said something like, these people working here are to lazy to go to the files. Your records are most likely here. Give it a try and don't give up. Semper Fidelis, Tippy Interesting. It does seem like an "easy out" for someone who's too lazy working at the records center. My buddy was stationed there shortly after the fire in St. Louis, and like I said, my grandfathers records were singed on the edges, so it did happen. But, I have no doubt lazy assholes would use it to get out of work. The fire did happen. Dad got out in 70 and went back in during 71. Part of his records were in the fire. His DD214 lists his enlistment date as 71 and his retirement date as 1980 with over 21 yrs service but the records center doesn't have copies of his record from his prior service except his medical records he had with him. He submitted a copy of his old DD 214 from his first separation but as far as I know they haven't added it to his records. The medical records got added I know because VA needed them. The fire added way more problems for people working there than they could ever offset by saying I can't find them cause fire. They were still attempting to restore them last I heard. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 12:32:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cool find, I love history like that. Maybe you history buffs can verify this practice but, according to my FIL, Navy ships had a "battle flag" and a normal flag. My FIL's father (wife's grandfather) got to bring home the last "battle flag" that flew over his destroyer during WWII. He was an enlisted sailor and the guy who was supposed to lower the colors that day was sick so this man took his place. When he retrieved the flag he took it to his officer who told him "you can keep it, we're all going home". That same ship fought several times in both the Atlantic & Pacific. My FIL keeps it in his safe but I'd like to get it matted and framed for him if he ever lets me. I've seen it, it is huge. Man that is beyond awesome. I couldn't imagine getting to bring something like that home, or having something like that that was a family members. Of course I am a sucker for nostalgia, most people my age couldn't care less about things like that. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 3:20:49 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cool find, I love history like that. Maybe you history buffs can verify this practice but, according to my FIL, Navy ships had a "battle flag" and a normal flag. My FIL's father (wife's grandfather) got to bring home the last "battle flag" that flew over his destroyer during WWII. He was an enlisted sailor and the guy who was supposed to lower the colors that day was sick so this man took his place. When he retrieved the flag he took it to his officer who told him "you can keep it, we're all going home". That same ship fought several times in both the Atlantic & Pacific. My FIL keeps it in his safe but I'd like to get it matted and framed for him if he ever lets me. I've seen it, it is huge. Wow! What Ship was it? |
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