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Posted: 5/7/2003 7:25:22 PM EDT
If you had to give up your AR15, which commonly available .223 or 5.56 rifle would be your second choice after your AR15? My choice is Armalite's new AR-180B. KOTB
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 7:27:16 PM EDT
Daewoo, Galil, FN-FNC, a host of others. -hanko
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 7:27:44 PM EDT
HK SL8-1
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 7:33:27 PM EDT
Sig55x series and HK G36 seem to be the best of the rest out there. Do the Daewoos have last shot bolt hold open?
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 7:36:00 PM EDT
G36 or M96
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 7:37:20 PM EDT
Candidly, without all the advantages of options, and the superior ergonomics of the AR/M16 style weapon, I would not pick another 223 rifle. The round itself is the weakest link in the system. For an assault weapon, if the AR/M16 didn't exist, probably the AK or FAL would be my next choices.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 7:49:34 PM EDT
FNC
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 7:51:52 PM EDT
My choice would either be a 550 or a Dawoo. I find it kinda of funny that people that choose the G36 and M96 havent even held one yet less shot one.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 7:52:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 8:02:08 PM EDT
FN 2000 with 100 round beta drum.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 8:20:47 PM EDT
In the realm of affordability I'd go with a AR-180b. A post ban Daewoo would be affordable too though. What I'd really want would be a Sig, FNC or preban Galil though. Too rich for my blood realistically though...
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 8:22:52 PM EDT
SIG 551 [IMG]http://world.guns.ru/assault/sig551.jpg[/IMG]
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 8:25:08 PM EDT
You guys are going to pay $5000+ for Sigs?
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 8:25:41 PM EDT
G36 or HK SL8-1 or Galil
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 8:43:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR-15Fan: You guys are going to pay $5000+ for Sigs?
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Yes, and if that was not avail. then I would not own a 223 at all.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 8:53:35 PM EDT
Don't know... I tend to think 'gun first', round second... I have a 5.56mm rifle because the AR shoots 5.56mm. I don't have an AR for the 5.56mm cartridge. No beef with the .223, but to me ammo is only an issue wrt surplus availability (i.e. I won't buy .50Beo or some other 'new-only' cartrdige. It has to be ex or current military, and there has to be surplus ammo)...
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 8:53:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2003 8:56:26 PM EDT by blackmanta]
Originally Posted By TheFNG: My choice would either be a 550 or a Dawoo. I find it kinda of funny that people that choose the G36 and M96 havent even held one yet less shot one.
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Keep in mind that Kingofthebumps asked for "commonly available" firearms. I've held and shot a G-36K. Personally, I don't see it as being any better than an M4. Also, I found the double-aperture rear sight that it's always shown with to be clumsy and damn near impossible to get a good cheek weld with. On the other hand, when shooting it full auto it's very controllable and not very "jumpy." I've looked at a Robinson M-96 and it seems like a fine rifle. However, it carries a price tag of around $1500. For that kind of bling you can buy a pre-ban AR. But if I had to choose something other than an AR, I'd consider the Robinson.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 8:55:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2003 9:18:53 PM EDT by USPC40]
A lot of you guys are mentioning rifles that are either impossible to get or pretty damn close. Now, what rifle in reality would you get? I'm thinking the AR-180B or M96 Recon Carbine. [b]AR-180B[/b] [img]http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/rifles/ar180/Regan180b.jpg[/img] [b]M96 Recon Carbine[/b] [img]http://www.robarm.com/images/M96_Recon_Olive_copy.jpg[/img] [img]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=476[/img] [url=www.nra.org][b][red]NRA[/red][/url] [url=www.nra.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][b][red]GOA[/red] [/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.saf.org][red]SAF[/red][/url] [url=www.saf.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][red]SAS[/red][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/b][/url]
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 8:57:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 9:02:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By USPC40: A lot of you guys are mentioning rifles that are either impossible to get or pretty damn close. Now, what rifle in reality would you get? I'm thinking the AR-180B or M96 Recon Carbine. [url]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=476[/url] [url=www.nra.org][b][red]NRA[/red][/url] [url=www.nra.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][b][red]GOA[/red] [/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.saf.org][red]SAF[/red][/url] [url=www.saf.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][red]SAS[/red][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/b][/url]
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The man did not specify that it had to be available in gun stores in the US today. If I couldn't have a AR-15 I probably would not own a .223 rifle at all. I would own a FAL or a M1A or a M1 carbine. The new AR180 has yet to prove itself and the Mini 14 and M96 are JUNK.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 9:08:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2003 9:10:56 PM EDT by TigerStripe]
If you're talking price, AR-108B or SAR-3. But if I were going with an AK type weapon, I'd get an SAR-1 in 7.62x39. Mags are ten or twelve bucks and Wolf ammo for it is available @ $75-$80 per thousand. TS Edited to add: Also after the AR-15 the AK has the most and easiest parts to repair the rifle.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 9:17:27 PM EDT
HK G41.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 9:43:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: The man did not specify that it had to be available in gun stores in the US today.
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What he said was "which commonly available .223 or 5.56 rifle". Many rifles were mentioned that definitely aren't commonly available or available at all to our market.
The new AR180 has yet to prove itself and the Mini 14 and M96 are JUNK.
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The AR-180 design isn't new. It's been around 30+ years. The AR-180B is basically the same rifle with improvements. I never mentioned the Mini-14. However, I'm sure many members here would disagree that it's junk. It may not be as accurate as an AR15, but the ones I've seen were well made. I have no personal experience with a M96. I'm assuming you do since you feel it's junk. I can only go by what reviews I read, comments by owners and personal research. [img]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=476[/img] [url=www.nra.org][b][red]NRA[/red][/url] [url=www.nra.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][b][red]GOA[/red] [/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.saf.org][red]SAF[/red][/url] [url=www.saf.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][red]SAS[/red][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/b][/url]
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 9:50:10 PM EDT
Steyr Aug A2 I get wood looking at them! [:P]
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 9:51:29 PM EDT
I know that the AR18/180 design has been around for more than 30 years, I also know that its been out of production for more than 20 of those and that the company that currently makes them has only been selling them for a few months.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 10:09:16 PM EDT
My Daewoo DR200. I've considered finding a preban with a faster twist barrel and using my DR200 for spare parts for it. The 1/12 twist barrel and lack of spare parts is the only reason I even own any ARs. Armdlbrl, the DR200 uses AR mags and has a bolt catch that is virtually identical to the AR so yes it does hold open on empty mags. The mag release and safety lever are also effectively the same and the trigger group is interchangable between them.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 10:12:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hoplophile: My Daewoo DR200. I've considered finding a preban with a faster twist barrel and using my DR200 for spare parts for it. The 1/12 twist barrel and lack of spare parts is the only reason I even own any ARs. Armdlbrl, the DR200 uses AR mags and has a bolt catch that is virtually identical to the AR so yes it does hold open on empty mags. The mag release and safety lever are also effectively the same and the trigger group is interchangable between them.
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Oooh, ok, I'd take one. I thought they were not allowed to import them anymore though? The Gallil and FNC don't have last shot hold open, so they are slower to reload than the AR is. I don't want to give that up if I can avoid that.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 10:17:35 PM EDT
Is the bolt handle on the Daewoo recipricating? What is the gas system setup like, similar to an AK or closer to AR?
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 10:20:10 PM EDT
They are not imported any more but they are not too hard to find out there. I've often seen discussion of starting some domestic production of something similar or at least spare parts for them.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 10:23:01 PM EDT
Beretta AR70
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 10:23:18 PM EDT
AR-15Fan, AK style. This is the one real diffence in the manual of arms between an AR and a DR200. The other is that the safety has to rotate 180 degrees to get to fire vs. the 90 degrees on an AR. This could easily be remedied if anybody would make some replacement safety selectors.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 11:19:37 PM EDT
Another Mil-Spec M1A. If you can see it, you can kill it.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 12:31:40 AM EDT
I wouldn't pick a .223 if it wasn't an AR.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 12:45:02 AM EDT
Galil AR or if I was on a budget, any AK74 variant in .223.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 1:58:15 AM EDT
FNC Para
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 2:28:42 AM EDT
I know I know but I still would love to own one in this config. [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/p31ae01968bc5452f6bd8dfc58ddf56b8/fc30ade8.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 3:01:15 AM EDT
Remington 700 vss.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 3:25:57 AM EDT
Don't do much KD type target shooting anymore so the main reason I keep a rifle around is for home defense. I need 100% dependability not pinpoint accuracy. If I can hit a pie plate with it at 25yrds thats more than good enough. In most circumsances a "selfdefense" shooting at anything beyond across the room will get your ass in a sling. So if you are talking 5.56 it's a Mini-14 for me. It may be a piece of junk to the AR-15 elite but I've owned several of them and they all went bang every time I pulled the trigger. Plus you can buy them all day long at the local sporting goods store. If I want 7.62X39 I'll go with my SAR, see above plus cheaper to buy and feed than even the Mini. If I need to reach out and touch someone for any reason I'll grab my M1A EVERY time. Don't even need a scope, with iron sights, a good tight sling and a prone or sitting position your ass is mine out to 500 yards. (Thanks USMC) I'd survive loosing my AR's....I promise
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 4:15:44 AM EDT
I would choose the M96 Carbine.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:00:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:09:48 AM EDT
I have shot the Sig 551, and it would be my first choice as a replacement to my ARs, but as stated availability is a issue. Realistic replacement for a 5.56 weapon would be a FNC Para. Even as much as I like ARs, my M1A is still my favorite rifle to shoot, S/F Flyingrhino
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:19:36 AM EDT
Some type of SIG 550. I shot one a couple of years back... fell in love with that rifle that moment. EricE
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:23:20 AM EDT
My Daewoo K2 of course. There's actually a huge difference between a rifle that's been developed and fielded by an Army and one built for civillian consumption. While designs may not differ, and civillian guns can be of high quality, they simply don't have the millions of dollars spent on them in development and testing that fielded military rifles do. That difference is tremendous when it comes to durability, reliablility, and maintainability. I've seen the Daewoo in action with ROK troops first-hand. They work! This rifle is not some toy to play with, but a combat weapon on the most combat oriented border in the world. The Daewoo is the real thing. Ross
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:28:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR-15Fan: Is the bolt handle on the Daewoo recipricating? What is the gas system setup like, similar to an AK or closer to AR?
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As stated, the Daewoo is an AK gas system, but with a gas regulator (lik ethe SAW or M240) which allows function even when fouled in emergency. The bolt handle reciprocates with the bolt (it's attatched directly to it) and can be used as a charging handle or forward assist (like and AK). It is forged aluminum alloy construction similar to the AR-15 and weighs in at about the same as an M16A1, less than an A2. It also takes the M16 bayonet, bipod, magazine, sling, and several parts (though other parts are non-existant for spares). Think of it as an AR-15 with AK reliability, or an AK with the AR-15's accuracy and light weight. Ross
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:10:24 AM EDT
I would either reach for my HK93 or Steyr USR. That is considering my Stoner SR15 M4 is "out of bounds". Actually, all of the above seem to not be within the confines of this discussion. Dangit! I have kicked myself a few times for not buying that 20" M96 for a grand at a fun show last year. I guess I can't play in this thread. Don't have the proper equipment. [:|] Cope
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:19:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2003 8:24:16 AM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:21:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FedGunner: I wouldn't pick a .223 if it wasn't an AR.
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Me neither Id get an AK if I didnt have an AR
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:47:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 9:13:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2003 9:15:31 AM EDT by kindstranger]
M249 [:)] Edited to say Ruger M77 carbine (the sweet little guy with the 16" bbl) topped with a Zeiss 3x9.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 10:03:11 AM EDT
If it was within my means , I could think of several 5.56 rifle that I would rather have than the AR series... Most of which have been mentioned ... I kick myself to this day for letting a great deal on a Galil SAR get away from me....
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 10:13:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2003 10:14:00 AM EDT by Torf]
This gun, whatever it is. [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TADeAigYEbg3Yuyad!yBeqrL2FD4DCcQCOE!j3PX*DJY­b*MlvlEl*A7Owr2tmavBMujEHYp7hRT*kHOjflnoZXJuX­Epybu9*RKCMFN14TGb4S0CRvofAxQ/heatpic6.jpg?dc=4675420779311228162[/img] If availability was of prime concern, I'd take an M96. I agree about the Bushmaster M17 bullpup, but I shoot lefty! [:(]
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