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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:40:26 PM EDT
[#1]
You want as much of your weight to be as far back as possible (more weight at a greater height translates to more speed at the bottom of the track).
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:42:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
We missed our last scout meeting Sunday and they sent my son a kit yesterday at school. I think we're supposed to have it ready by this weekend. I read through the instructions/rules and while it's pretty basic, I still have a lot of questions. Can we cut pieces off the block and glue them back on in different configurations? Yes Can we use nails? Yes Can we add lead weights to it as long as we stay under the max weight? Yes Any other pit falls or cautions we should heed? I'm thinking to start, the most important part would be getting the axles straight and polishing off the flashing and groves off the nails where the wheels ride, smear a little graphite on them. The rest would be mainly for looks. Yes My son is six, but he's a pretty sharp kid, so while I can help him out with the tools, we can't get too crazy. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:43:10 PM EDT
[#3]
keep the axles where they are and use the stuff provided in the kit. they will look ot make sure you arent using aftermarket wheels etc. im not sure about cutting off and adding back on, but as long as the axles are in the same location i dont see an issue. you can weight it however you want to (lead tungsten, etc) just cant exceed the weight guideline.
good luck and have fun. the dads are building most of the cars now so dont go in with high expectations. hopefully your pack has an "open class" for those obviously built by the parents. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:43:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We missed our last scout meeting Sunday and they sent my son a kit yesterday at school. I think we're supposed to have it ready by this weekend. I read through the instructions/rules and while it's pretty basic, I still have a lot of questions. Can we cut pieces off the block and glue them back on in different configurations? Yes Can we use nails? Yes Can we add lead weights to it as long as we stay under the max weight? Yes Any other pit falls or cautions we should heed? I'm thinking to start, the most important part would be getting the axles straight and polishing off the flashing and groves off the nails where the wheels ride, smear a little graphite on them. The rest would be mainly for looks. Yes My son is six, but he's a pretty sharp kid, so while I can help him out with the tools, we can't get too crazy. Lol. Poor dad and kid are gonna be disappoint |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:44:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Been a looong time since I did a derby car!
I found this: derby rules Basically since the local derby can set their own rules it's hard to say what you can and can't do. No reason you couldn't cut and reglue the body block - so long as you stay within the dimensions specified. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:45:12 PM EDT
[#6]
There was a thread last week. Had all the tricks listed. Look for it and do everything.
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:46:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
We missed our last scout meeting Sunday and they sent my son a kit yesterday at school. I think we're supposed to have it ready by this weekend. I read through the instructions/rules and while it's pretty basic, I still have a lot of questions. Can we cut pieces off the block and glue them back on in different configurations? Can we use nails? Can we add lead weights to it as long as we stay under the max weight? Any other pit falls or cautions we should heed? I'm thinking to start, the most important part would be getting the axles straight and polishing off the flashing and groves off the nails where the wheels ride, smear a little graphite on them. The rest would be mainly for looks. My son is six, but he's a pretty sharp kid, so while I can help him out with the tools, we can't get too crazy. Don't let your kid build it! Are you totally new to this? Maybe let him pick the color. There is no way you can win if a 6 year old builds it! Geez you need to get your priorities straight! |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:46:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Want to win? Watch this:
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:47:17 PM EDT
[#9]
I don't know the specs off the top of my head, but just use the kit and you won't have any problems. Just tape some weight to it if it is under the day of the event.
I had my son build his on his own while I watched. He obviously didn't win against the dad built ones, but we had a good time regardless. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:48:18 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:48:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol. Poor dad and kid are gonna be disappoint Well, my other thought was to put the wheels on the standard square block for him and just let him paint it up and we race a basic square car. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:48:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Look up on youtube and watch some videos on building fast cars.
Your son can basically shape it however he wants and if you follow the principles outlined in the videos (true & polish axles, cant the wheels 10 degrees, lift one wheel, gently "ride the rail", place the ballast 1" in front of the rear axle, graphite) his car will go fast. Probably too young to understand the principles but if he gets to design the car and then you make it go fast he will be very happy. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:49:50 PM EDT
[#13]
No lead allowed locally, unless you can conceal it effectively.
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:53:09 PM EDT
[#14]
I have a delta bench top belt/disk sander. Those no reason why my son couldn't sand on it with that as long as he is closely supervised. I also have a benchtop scroll saw at my Dad's house, that might be a little much for him.
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:54:00 PM EDT
[#15]
What I would do is put a c02 bottle in the back and have it help propel the car down the track. You know one of those small CO2 bottles.
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:55:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
We missed our last scout meeting Sunday and they sent my son a kit yesterday at school. I think we're supposed to have it ready by this weekend. I read through the instructions/rules and while it's pretty basic, I still have a lot of questions. Can we cut pieces off the block and glue them back on in different configurations? Can we use nails? Can we add lead weights to it as long as we stay under the max weight? Any other pit falls or cautions we should heed? I'm thinking to start, the most important part would be getting the axles straight and polishing off the flashing and groves off the nails where the wheels ride, smear a little graphite on them. The rest would be mainly for looks. My son is six, but he's a pretty sharp kid, so while I can help him out with the tools, we can't get too crazy. A lot of localities tailor the rules in one way or another. Safest way is to ask your local leader for the rule sheet that will be used at check-in. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 12:58:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lot of localities tailor the rules in one way or another. Safest way is to ask your local leader for the rule sheet that will be used at check-in. Our pack definitely isn't that organized. Circle 10 or whatever probably has something. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 1:17:05 PM EDT
[#18]
I was maybe the only one growing up whose dad didnt help them build their car.
Other than helping me to use power tools safely, he didnt do a damn thing. I had the kit from BSA and a bottle of graphite. It was me against the world... I spent hours and hours carefully carving, shaping, and painting it. I loved that car. I marked the day on my calendar for the big race and I couldn't sleep the night before because I was so fucking excited. I just knew I'd win. My car didnt make it to the end of the track. Not even one time. I lost every race. I was fucking devastated. I still remember it vividly. 
Now, as a father of a little boy - part of me wants to wind tunnel test that mother fucker in addition to every trick out there. Another part of me looks back on that as a great life lesson. Not really sure which way I should go 
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Posted: 3/2/2016 1:19:58 PM EDT
[#19]
All you can to is:
Then let the fun begin  |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 1:28:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I would do is put a c02 bottle in the back and have it help propel the car down the track. You know one of those small CO2 bottles. That makes a wicked fast car.
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Posted: 3/2/2016 1:30:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was maybe the only one growing up whose dad didnt help them build their car. Other than helping me to use power tools safely, he didnt do a damn thing. I had the kit from BSA and a bottle of graphite. It was me against the world... I spent hours and hours carefully carving, shaping, and painting it. I loved that car. I marked the day on my calendar for the big race and I couldn't sleep the night before because I was so fucking excited. I just knew I'd win. My car didnt make it to the end of the track. Not even one time. I lost every race. I was fucking devastated. I still remember it vividly.
Now, as a father of a little boy - part of me wants to wind tunnel test that mother fucker in addition to every trick out there. Another part of me looks back on that as a great life lesson. Not really sure which way I should go Last derby my son was in we followed the rules - Travis built the car, I did things that were just not safe for a kid to do. I had him draw the outline on the block for what he wanted and I cut it for him if I recall. He hand sanded, painted, etc. Of course the winner had a car that was perfect - spray painted in a paint booth with umpteen layers of laquer, painted to the nines. I'm sure similar attention paid to axles and wheels. The 6 year year old kid that built that had talent, he's going places. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 1:37:32 PM EDT
[#22]
My Dad used to drill out the wheels and use thin pressing sleeves that where beveled on the inside and made the wheels very wobbly.
Never understood it but I won 1st place in our pack and the top ten in our Gemstone district race. We made two cars, one i made to play with and one that went in the wood shoe box I wasnt alowed to touch except to put it on the table, and put it on the track  My Dad and his maint guys at work built some fast cars, he finally had one win the gemstone district but it was for a kid at church when I was in High School. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 1:40:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
We missed our last scout meeting Sunday and they sent my son a kit yesterday at school. I think we're supposed to have it ready by this weekend. I read through the instructions/rules and while it's pretty basic, I still have a lot of questions. Can we cut pieces off the block and glue them back on in different configurations? Yes Can we use nails? Yes Can we add lead weights to it as long as we stay under the max weight? Yes Any other pit falls or cautions we should heed? Put lead as far back in the car as possible, also if you can manage it try to get it to roll on only three wheels. Also don't just remove burs from axles, but put them in a drill and run them against sandpaper eventually getting to at least 600 grit. Also sand down the outside of the wheels making them as smooth as possible. I'm thinking to start, the most important part would be getting the axles straight and polishing off the flashing and groves off the nails where the wheels ride, smear a little graphite on them. The rest would be mainly for looks. My son is six, but he's a pretty sharp kid, so while I can help him out with the tools, we can't get too crazy. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 1:41:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't let your kid build it! Are you totally new to this? Maybe let him pick the color. There is no way you can win if a 6 year old builds it! Geez you need to get your priorities straight! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We missed our last scout meeting Sunday and they sent my son a kit yesterday at school. I think we're supposed to have it ready by this weekend. I read through the instructions/rules and while it's pretty basic, I still have a lot of questions. Can we cut pieces off the block and glue them back on in different configurations? Can we use nails? Can we add lead weights to it as long as we stay under the max weight? Any other pit falls or cautions we should heed? I'm thinking to start, the most important part would be getting the axles straight and polishing off the flashing and groves off the nails where the wheels ride, smear a little graphite on them. The rest would be mainly for looks. My son is six, but he's a pretty sharp kid, so while I can help him out with the tools, we can't get too crazy. Don't let your kid build it! Are you totally new to this? Maybe let him pick the color. There is no way you can win if a 6 year old builds it! Geez you need to get your priorities straight! |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 1:50:09 PM EDT
[#25]
I caused a shit storm the year I won my Pack's Pinewood Derby. I undercut the front end, because I thought it looked cool. It turns out that gives you a tiny head start as the pin drops. Back then the adults determined that I was within the rules, but that didn't make me feel any better about being called a cheater in the first place...
I just Googled the rules. There's tons of great information on building fast Pinewood Derby cars within the rules. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 1:50:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryAwesome video, maybe Dad did bend the axcels as the wheels were always bowed out and wobbly  |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 1:51:43 PM EDT
[#27]
We do a very similar event at our church, with an adult division. I had a reputation for making very fast cars.
You want center of balance about 1 inch forward of rear axel. Also, sectional density is important, think of it like a bullet. This year, I wanted to show the kids what you could do with some effort, so I built a fully fendered replica of a Porche 917, the car was max width, length and weight, but it felt very light compared to my winning car from last year, it was also much slower. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 1:54:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Simple:
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Posted: 3/2/2016 2:21:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was a thread last week. Had all the tricks listed. Look for it and do everything. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1837614_EASY_Pinewood_Derby_Car_WINS_using_Science___.html |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 2:26:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look up on youtube and watch some videos on building fast cars. Your son can basically shape it however he wants and if you follow the principles outlined in the videos (true & polish axles, cant the wheels 10 degrees, lift one wheel, gently "ride the rail", place the ballast 1" in front of the rear axle, graphite) his car will go fast. Probably too young to understand the principles but if he gets to design the car and then you make it go fast he will be very happy. Also bevel the tires so a knife edge of plast touches the body. Also polish off outside of tires so less friction against walls |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 2:29:56 PM EDT
[#31]
I always designed my own cars. I don't remember if I ever won any races, but I was always happy with how my cars turned out.
My favorite was the car that my dad and I painted to look like my dad's Sheriff Dept. cruiser. We even painted two of the rectangular lead weights red and blue then glued them on the "roof." I wish I knew where that car went. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 2:31:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Legally, you can do whatever you want. Ethically, you're bound by the rules.
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Posted: 3/2/2016 2:33:21 PM EDT
[#33]
I work at a company with a SHITLOAD of engineers.
We have our own company-wide Pinewood Derby race competitions. You'd be AMAZED to see what teams of engineers do for their cars! I entered, but didn't win. I'm definitely going to join in the games for this year too! |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 2:57:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Our pack is having the race this weekend.This is the 3rd car we have built. I have him do more every year and next year I am just going to assist him. Hopefully we will take 1st this year since we have previously finished 2nd and 3rd. But get as much weight in the back and polish the axles tires.
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Posted: 3/2/2016 3:03:58 PM EDT
[#35]
You will have a good time regardless of winning or not.
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Posted: 3/2/2016 3:15:59 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 3/2/2016 3:22:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Weight should be put just ahead of the rear axel. Try to land right at 5oz for total car weight.
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Posted: 3/2/2016 3:31:19 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 3/2/2016 3:33:47 PM EDT
[#39]
My church did what amounted to the BSA pinewood. Simply put, building a winning car is hard, and if you put all the work into simply making it fast, you wont have nearly as much fun. Building a cool car is much easier, and a lot more fun.
My fastest car was my first one, and it was the most boring: a black sedan with a normal profile, but all the special work was put into the wheels, axles, and weight location. Building it was a chore. My favorite car was my last one, and it was the slowest of the event: a Sherman tank replica with pivoting turret and 8 wheels arranged to look like treads. Building it was a blast! It is up to your son to build the car he wants, but I know I had a lot more fun building something cool instead of building something fast. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 3:35:00 PM EDT
[#40]
sub the work out to a physicist...as long as said physicist explains all of the work to boy scout
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Posted: 3/2/2016 3:37:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Do what the winners always did at our District meets. Buy one off the internet and pretend you know how to build something. I was once drafted by the race officials to deal with a rather irate grand parent over the fact that his car came in second to a car that was obviously bought by the parent of the first place winner. I pulled the top three finishers aside and said I wanted to pull the axles and inspect all three cars after I spoke to the Scouts in question for a few minutes. Grandpa suddenly wanted to withdraw his objection and the dad of the kid in third place about busted a gut in righteous indignation. Third place got robbed. I wouldn't have been in that position if they had done a proper pre-race inspection.
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Posted: 3/2/2016 4:10:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Been a looong time since I did a derby car! I found this: derby rules Basically since the local derby can set their own rules it's hard to say what you can and can't do. This is the most important thing. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 5:41:29 PM EDT
[#43]
My boys never won first place, but both were able to finish with trophies. They spent a lot of time in front of a drill press with thin strips of sand paper.
Also, every single care they made used bullets for weight; usually hidden in drilled out holes, but one car had two 45 JHP sticking out of the hood, looking somewhat like some weird intake manifold. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 5:48:06 PM EDT
[#44]
The key to all of it is coming in 2nd place. My son and I won his first year and it was a wicked fast car. Took us both a long time to build and paint. Axles and wheels got DAYS of attention. Winning meant we had to go to District races another full day for 5 races with our car. Then regionals another lost weekend.
My dream car would win 2nd place on pack/den derby day. Enough to get acclaim and a trophy but doesnt cost you another 2 or 3 weekends....
Some places even have a "Dad" division" There were full out scale replicas of 34 Fords, Police Radio cars with functioning light bars, etc. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 5:51:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was maybe the only one growing up whose dad didnt help them build their car. Other than helping me to use power tools safely, he didnt do a damn thing. I had the kit from BSA and a bottle of graphite. It was me against the world... I spent hours and hours carefully carving, shaping, and painting it. I loved that car. I marked the day on my calendar for the big race and I couldn't sleep the night before because I was so fucking excited. I just knew I'd win. My car didnt make it to the end of the track. Not even one time. I lost every race. I was fucking devastated. I still remember it vividly.
Now, as a father of a little boy - part of me wants to wind tunnel test that mother fucker in addition to every trick out there. Another part of me looks back on that as a great life lesson. Not really sure which way I should go Do like my dad did, build a track for your basement, you get a car, your son gets a car, both iterate until you're happy with performance. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 6:20:49 PM EDT
[#46]
http://www.derbytalk.com
But to answer your question, you best check with your pack, as most pack rules can be VERY different pack to pack. What is legal in 1 pack, can get you instantly DQ'd in another. About he most strict rules you will find, are.... Must use all in the box parts Must use original axle slots Only minor sanding to axles/wheels (no bending/No lightning/Lathing) All 4 wheels must touch the track evenly 5 oz. weight limit (pretty universal) From there, they can go up to 5 oz weight limit only. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 10:23:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Toss me your e-mail in an IM.. I'll snd you a tips and tricks book I picked up off the net..
After, I picked up the book, my son took 1st all the time in his troop. Yes I did help him, however it was to the bare minimum.. And the last year in Cub Scouts he pretty much did it all on his own, I just coached him through using a few of the jigs to set up the car.. And I did the cutting on the table saw... If the dads have a race afterwords, get yourself a ducted fan car... No fire hazards or explosive hazards involved, and they go like a raped ape.. Not me,,, but you will get the idea..
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Posted: 3/2/2016 10:33:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote Historycame to post this. J- |
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