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Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:03:41 PM EDT
[#1]


How can so many women be so fat AND "starving" ?

there was only one picture of a thin woman in that article.


WHAT A WOMAN SHE WAS!!!





Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:05:27 PM EDT
[#2]
And Mandela got a Nobel Prize
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:05:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Ignoring for a moment the moral concerns raised by the Apartheid system, is anyone really surprised that SA pretty much fell apart as soon as it ended?
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:06:08 PM EDT
[#4]
We ran across a few that left years ago.   I would have done the same
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:09:23 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
Ignoring for a moment the moral concerns raised by the Apartheid system, is anyone really surprised that SA pretty much fell apart as soon as it ended?
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None whatsoever. ..
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:09:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ignoring for a moment the moral concerns raised by the Apartheid system, is anyone really surprised that SA pretty much fell apart as soon as it ended?
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I have complete confidence in Jacob Zuma.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:10:11 PM EDT
[#7]
It's odd to see, but then again SA as a whole is pretty fucking poor.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:10:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


None whatsoever. ..
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Ignoring for a moment the moral concerns raised by the Apartheid system, is anyone really surprised that SA pretty much fell apart as soon as it ended?


None whatsoever. ..



Liberals


Who still blame de white debil
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:11:20 PM EDT
[#9]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have complete confidence in Jacob Zuma.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

Ignoring for a moment the moral concerns raised by the Apartheid system, is anyone really surprised that SA pretty much fell apart as soon as it ended?




I have complete confidence in Jacob Zuma.




 



I'm picturing that in South African sign language was we speak.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:12:38 PM EDT
[#10]
We should import all of them.  Western culture and they've seen the horrors of socialism.  They'd be Republican voters for generations.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:13:09 PM EDT
[#11]
I have to wonder how many of them were the equivalent of US section 8/  trailer park types with marginal employment BEFORE whites lost power and they're just blaming their current situation on Black rule.
Yes, I do know that many whites lost their lands, but I'm not seeing in the story where these were former landowners now subjected to forced poverty conditions.
Lets put it this way.
if we took away welfare, food stamps, WIC etc here in the states, our cities would be full of makeshift encampments like this and their residents would be blaming the current US politicians for their plight.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:14:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Some will get this, and some won't.

Shit always runs downhill!
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:15:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Shanty huts sit next to clapped-out cars, as children sprint along the dusty wasteland under the scorching sun.

Beyond the flimsy shacks lie ditches and pools of filthy, stagnant water where mosquitoes breed.




to me it looks like the skeeters had better bring their own canteens.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:15:40 PM EDT
[#14]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Ignoring for a moment the moral concerns raised by the Apartheid system, is anyone really surprised that SA pretty much fell apart as soon as it ended?
View Quote





 





No it is not.







It is also why Apartheid existed and the post UDI Rhodesia (NIMBAR!!) was set up as it was.







They knew they could not live a first world existence with BMR as their nations' political status.  Why did they fight BMR?  Because they knew what would happen.







The sad truth is, sometimes facts are racist and racists are right.






















 
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:16:53 PM EDT
[#15]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Ignoring for a moment the moral concerns raised by the Apartheid system, is anyone really surprised that SA pretty much fell apart as soon as it ended?
View Quote


Botha dismantling their nuclear program was very fortunate-I can only imagine how fast the ANC would have sold a few devices to fund numbered Swiss accounts.



 
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:17:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Anyone else find it odd, that liberals champion individuality, and everyone existing is a special delicate snowflake, yet demand that the government make us all the same?
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:18:05 PM EDT
[#17]
We already know how Socialism turns out:  it becomes Fascism.

It's like the 20s all over again, and that's the sad part; it hasn't even been 100 years...

Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:18:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:21:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ignoring for a moment the moral concerns raised by the Apartheid system, is anyone really surprised that SA pretty much fell apart as soon as it ended?
View Quote


They should have been able to take their rightful place among the historical pantheon of successful indigenous-run nation states of sub-Saharan Africa.

Oh, wait....
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:25:42 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
And Mandela got a Nobel Prize
View Quote


His wife Winnie had a jewelry business gave free Michelin inspired necklaces to her critics...
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:27:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Having worked extensively in South Africa I am just here for the entertainment value.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:33:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


His wife Winnie had a jewelry business gave free Michelin inspired necklaces to her critics...
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
And Mandela got a Nobel Prize


His wife Winnie had a jewelry business gave free Michelin inspired necklaces to her critics...


She held a few fire sales, too?
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:36:05 PM EDT
[#23]
And if a white South African or White Zimbabwean applies for legal immigration to the US they are ignored or put to the bottom of the list due to their race - and that is a fact. But if a Black from either country applies they will most likely be on a plane headed to the US within the week if they have a plane ticket.
I'm friends with a white South African on another gun board that has been seeking to come to the US for 9 years while he watches every black South African he knows gain immediate acceptance. This is the dirty little anti-white racist secret the "anti-racist" Globalists would rather you didn't know. The same guy told me another white friend of his has been trying to migrate to Australia for the last 12 years....still waiting. Neither have no criminal history and one served in the army with high honors.
This is how anti-white Globalism works and why you most likely know no white person or family who has legally immigrated to a white country. Meanwhile Germany is told they must take Muslim and African migrants, while literally hundreds of thousands of whites that would like to flee Africa are made to stay put.
Europe and the US is for everyone, but Africa is for blacks and whites have no business there and thus no rights according the to Globalist controlled "anti-racist (anti-white) media.
This is why its sickening when you see stupid comments here when referring to white Zimbabwean's or South Africans having their possessions confiscated and rights taken - that "they are stupid for staying - so they deserve it". Fact is, it has been made very difficult for them to leave legally due to their race.

 
 
 
 
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:43:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And Mandela got a Nobel Prize
View Quote


So did Obama and just look around at all of the peace and love he has inspired.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:44:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Man I bet they have a hellish murder rate and drug problem there!
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:44:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And if a white South African or White Zimbabwean applies for legal immigration to the US they are ignored or put to the bottom of the list due to their race - and that is a fact. But if a Black from either country applies they will most likely be on a plane headed to the US within the week if they have a plane ticket.

I'm friends with a white South African on another gun board that has been seeking to come to the US for 9 years while he watches every black South African he knows gain immediate acceptance. This is the dirty little anti-white racist secret the "anti-racist" Globalists would rather you didn't know. The same guy told me another white friend of his has been trying to migrate to Australia for the last 12 years....still waiting. Neither have no criminal history and one served in the army with high honors.

This is how anti-white Globalism works and why you most likely know no white person or family who has legally immigrated to a white country. Meanwhile Germany is told they must take Muslim and African migrants, while literally hundreds of thousands of whites that would like to flee Africa are made to stay put.

Europe and the US is for everyone, but Africa is for blacks and whites have no business there and thus no rights according the to Globalist controlled "anti-racist (anti-white) media.

This is why its sickening when you see stupid comments here when referring to white Zimbabwean's or South Africans having their possessions confiscated and rights taken - that "they are stupid for staying - so they deserve it". Fact is, it has been made very difficult for them to leave legally due to their race.        
View Quote


If Africa is only for Blacks, then why are they not letting the White people out?
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:54:15 PM EDT
[#27]
If a white South African immigrated to the U.S.

Would he be an African American?
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:57:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And if a white South African or White Zimbabwean applies for legal immigration to the US they are ignored or put to the bottom of the list due to their race - and that is a fact. But if a Black from either country applies they will most likely be on a plane headed to the US within the week if they have a plane ticket.

I'm friends with a white South African on another gun board that has been seeking to come to the US for 9 years while he watches every black South African he knows gain immediate acceptance. This is the dirty little anti-white racist secret the "anti-racist" Globalists would rather you didn't know. The same guy told me another white friend of his has been trying to migrate to Australia for the last 12 years....still waiting. Neither have no criminal history and one served in the army with high honors.

This is how anti-white Globalism works and why you most likely know no white person or family who has legally immigrated to a white country. Meanwhile Germany is told they must take Muslim and African migrants, while literally hundreds of thousands of whites that would like to flee Africa are made to stay put.

Europe and the US is for everyone, but Africa is for blacks and whites have no business there and thus no rights according the to Globalist controlled "anti-racist (anti-white) media.

This is why its sickening when you see stupid comments here when referring to white Zimbabwean's or South Africans having their possessions confiscated and rights taken - that "they are stupid for staying - so they deserve it". Fact is, it has been made very difficult for them to leave legally due to their race.        
View Quote


America has no room for whites and even certain groups of non whites.

Buddy's cousin.... Factory trained exotic car body and paint man. He is Irish. One of a handful of Rolls Royce certified paint specialists. Nope, can't stay here in the US. Repair shops were falling all over themselves to hire the guy.

Family friend.... Can't even get a tourist visa to come here and visit. She is Pilipino (and a practicing attorney). I get that we don't need any more lawyers but do you really think she is going to come visit and then overstay her visa to work in a laundry or cleaning houses under the table?

Oddly, there is a pretty large contingent of white South Africans here in San Diego. I used to hang out with one and I worked for another guy that was plugged into the S.A expat community here. They are all Jews FWIW.

Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:57:01 PM EDT
[#29]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


And Mandela got a Nobel Prize
View Quote
So did Obama.

 



Hmmm.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:58:17 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

 

I'm picturing that in South African sign language was we speak.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ignoring for a moment the moral concerns raised by the Apartheid system, is anyone really surprised that SA pretty much fell apart as soon as it ended?


I have complete confidence in Jacob Zuma.

 

I'm picturing that in South African sign language was we speak.

I'm LMAO at that.  I'm an ASL interpreter with a deaf wife and we have a great laugh every time we think of that dumb shit on stage.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 6:59:08 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

 

I'm picturing that in South African sign language was we speak.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ignoring for a moment the moral concerns raised by the Apartheid system, is anyone really surprised that SA pretty much fell apart as soon as it ended?


I have complete confidence in Jacob Zuma.

 

I'm picturing that in South African sign language was we speak.

I'm LMAO at that.  I'm an ASL interpreter with a deaf wife and we have a great laugh every time we think of that dumb shit on stage.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 7:04:29 PM EDT
[#32]
fookin prawns
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 7:04:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


America has no room for whites and even certain groups of non whites.

Buddy's cousin.... Factory trained exotic car body and paint man. He is Irish. One of a handful of Rolls Royce certified paint specialists. Nope, can't stay here in the US. Repair shops were falling all over themselves to hire the guy.

Family friend.... Can't even get a tourist visa to come here and visit. She is Pilipino (and a practicing attorney). I get that we don't need any more lawyers but do you really think she is going to come visit and then overstay her visa to work in a laundry or cleaning houses under the table?

Oddly, there is a pretty large contingent of white South Africans here in San Diego. I used to hang out with one and I worked for another guy that was plugged into the S.A expat community here. They are all Jews FWIW.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
And if a white South African or White Zimbabwean applies for legal immigration to the US they are ignored or put to the bottom of the list due to their race - and that is a fact. But if a Black from either country applies they will most likely be on a plane headed to the US within the week if they have a plane ticket.

I'm friends with a white South African on another gun board that has been seeking to come to the US for 9 years while he watches every black South African he knows gain immediate acceptance. This is the dirty little anti-white racist secret the "anti-racist" Globalists would rather you didn't know. The same guy told me another white friend of his has been trying to migrate to Australia for the last 12 years....still waiting. Neither have no criminal history and one served in the army with high honors.

This is how anti-white Globalism works and why you most likely know no white person or family who has legally immigrated to a white country. Meanwhile Germany is told they must take Muslim and African migrants, while literally hundreds of thousands of whites that would like to flee Africa are made to stay put.

Europe and the US is for everyone, but Africa is for blacks and whites have no business there and thus no rights according the to Globalist controlled "anti-racist (anti-white) media.

This is why its sickening when you see stupid comments here when referring to white Zimbabwean's or South Africans having their possessions confiscated and rights taken - that "they are stupid for staying - so they deserve it". Fact is, it has been made very difficult for them to leave legally due to their race.        


America has no room for whites and even certain groups of non whites.

Buddy's cousin.... Factory trained exotic car body and paint man. He is Irish. One of a handful of Rolls Royce certified paint specialists. Nope, can't stay here in the US. Repair shops were falling all over themselves to hire the guy.

Family friend.... Can't even get a tourist visa to come here and visit. She is Pilipino (and a practicing attorney). I get that we don't need any more lawyers but do you really think she is going to come visit and then overstay her visa to work in a laundry or cleaning houses under the table?

Oddly, there is a pretty large contingent of white South Africans here in San Diego. I used to hang out with one and I worked for another guy that was plugged into the S.A expat community here. They are all Jews FWIW.



That explains it....the claimed "jew" to benefit them....they only claim "white" when it benefits them. Jew is a persecuted class.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 7:08:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If Africa is only for Blacks, then why are they not letting the White people out?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
And if a white South African or White Zimbabwean applies for legal immigration to the US they are ignored or put to the bottom of the list due to their race - and that is a fact. But if a Black from either country applies they will most likely be on a plane headed to the US within the week if they have a plane ticket.

I'm friends with a white South African on another gun board that has been seeking to come to the US for 9 years while he watches every black South African he knows gain immediate acceptance. This is the dirty little anti-white racist secret the "anti-racist" Globalists would rather you didn't know. The same guy told me another white friend of his has been trying to migrate to Australia for the last 12 years....still waiting. Neither have no criminal history and one served in the army with high honors.

This is how anti-white Globalism works and why you most likely know no white person or family who has legally immigrated to a white country. Meanwhile Germany is told they must take Muslim and African migrants, while literally hundreds of thousands of whites that would like to flee Africa are made to stay put.

Europe and the US is for everyone, but Africa is for blacks and whites have no business there and thus no rights according the to Globalist controlled "anti-racist (anti-white) media.

This is why its sickening when you see stupid comments here when referring to white Zimbabwean's or South Africans having their possessions confiscated and rights taken - that "they are stupid for staying - so they deserve it". Fact is, it has been made very difficult for them to leave legally due to their race.        


If Africa is only for Blacks, then why are they not letting the White people out?


So they can see "justice" (state sponsored terrorism) served to them.

Look at Rhodesia for the end game.  Genocide.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 7:09:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Where is chockinghazard
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 7:10:11 PM EDT
[#36]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


fookin prawns
View Quote
no shit looked liked D9



 
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 7:14:26 PM EDT
[#37]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If a white South African immigrated to the U.S.



Would he be an African American?
View Quote


Just ask her.













Even though she is a flaming liberal, still incredibly Hot !!!!







 
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 7:28:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Looks like affirmative action writ large
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 7:38:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Having worked extensively in South Africa I am just here for the entertainment value.
View Quote


care to elaborate?
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 7:44:12 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
We already know how Socialism turns out:  it becomes Fascism.

It's like the 20s all over again, and that's the sad part; it hasn't even been 100 years...

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
We already know how Socialism turns out:  it becomes Fascism.

It's like the 20s all over again, and that's the sad part; it hasn't even been 100 years...



but people are dumber now.



Quoted:
Quoted:
Having worked extensively in South Africa I am just here for the entertainment value.


care to elaborate?

I'm sure he's saying that most of SA isn't like that, just like most of GA/SC/NC/TN/AL/MS isn't a trailer park as the press would have you think.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 7:46:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If a white South African immigrated to the U.S.

Would he be an African American?
View Quote

Yes , when affirmative action came on one of our jobsites to check for minorities one of the subs pointed to a white kid that worked for  him. The bitch from the Affirmative group looked at him and said "i aint fuckin around here" . The guy said with a big smile , "kiss my ass he is from South Africa ". She talked to the kid turned and walked away pissed off.  The sub said he gets them on that technicality every time
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 8:10:41 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

 

I'm picturing that in South African sign language was we speak.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ignoring for a moment the moral concerns raised by the Apartheid system, is anyone really surprised that SA pretty much fell apart as soon as it ended?


I have complete confidence in Jacob Zuma.

 

I'm picturing that in South African sign language was we speak.

I get a big chuckle whenever I think of that dumb ass on the stage. I'm a prof interpreter and my wife is deaf and we couldn't believe what we were seeing.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 8:25:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This story has been around for a while.  Here's one that seems to be from 2010:  http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/white-poverty-in-south-africa?articleId=USRTR2C3ZV



It seems unclear how many of those 400,000 are actually living in conditions such as this.  The 400,000 claim was apparently also made in 2013 by the BBC, implying that it was the number of people living in such places.

However, upon investigation that number seems to just have been an estimate made up out of thin air, and a more realistic figure (based on census numbers) seems to be that it could be as high as 7000-8000 white households who do not have permanent housing and as a result MAY live in such conditions.  So that would probably be closer to somewhere between 15,000 and 30,000 people.

Also, an earlier claim of 70 such camps (just like the claim of 80) apparently revealed that many of those were not actually "camps" at all, but just a few homeless people living in an old camper or something.

So, as tragic as this is for those people, especially the kids , it's not really clear at all how widespread this really is.  After all, every country has homeless people, and every country has squatters and the very poor.  

I am curious how many poor whites there were during apartheit, and how much the numbers have actually changed.  There's a lot of assumption and supposition in these articles, but not necessarily a lot of clear facts.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This story has been around for a while.  Here's one that seems to be from 2010:  http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/white-poverty-in-south-africa?articleId=USRTR2C3ZV


More than 400,000 white South Africans have thought to live in poverty


It seems unclear how many of those 400,000 are actually living in conditions such as this.  The 400,000 claim was apparently also made in 2013 by the BBC, implying that it was the number of people living in such places.

However, upon investigation that number seems to just have been an estimate made up out of thin air, and a more realistic figure (based on census numbers) seems to be that it could be as high as 7000-8000 white households who do not have permanent housing and as a result MAY live in such conditions.  So that would probably be closer to somewhere between 15,000 and 30,000 people.

Also, an earlier claim of 70 such camps (just like the claim of 80) apparently revealed that many of those were not actually "camps" at all, but just a few homeless people living in an old camper or something.

So, as tragic as this is for those people, especially the kids , it's not really clear at all how widespread this really is.  After all, every country has homeless people, and every country has squatters and the very poor.  

I am curious how many poor whites there were during apartheit, and how much the numbers have actually changed.  There's a lot of assumption and supposition in these articles, but not necessarily a lot of clear facts.


So they let the Southern Poverty Law Center count??
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 8:32:47 PM EDT
[#44]
It depends on whose ox is getting gored. Humorous
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 8:37:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Hell, let's bring them here.

We could use 400,000 new Republicans.

Link Posted: 2/24/2016 8:39:30 PM EDT
[#46]
There are millions of people throughout Africa living in similar conditions.

Am I supposed to give more fucks because these folks are white?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 8:42:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There are millions of people throughout Africa living in similar conditions.

Am I supposed to give more fucks because these folks are white?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote


Actually, yes.

Black People worry more about Black People.

Hispanics worry more about Hispanics.

White People worry more about White People.

Human nature, yo.

Link Posted: 2/24/2016 8:43:48 PM EDT
[#48]
They should have fought back. No fucks given on my behalf if you won't fight or kill to save your own hide.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 8:44:54 PM EDT
[#49]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


There are millions of people throughout Africa living in similar conditions.



Am I supposed to give more fucks because these folks are white?



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote
The difference is that those people brought western civilization with them, created a functioning, if oppressive society, and lost everything once they became an ethnic minority.  If you can't see the warning signs for us out of this then you are blind.



 
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 8:48:02 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They should have fought back. No fucks given on my behalf if you won't fight or kill to save your own hide.
View Quote


You are aware, I suppose, that they DID fight back...against the WHOLE FUCKING WORLD (except Israel) for about 20-30 years, right?

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