[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Training derps. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/26/2016 3:16:54 AM EDT
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Have any of you guys practiced any drills, live fire or dry, that have given you the derp?
Example: I used to do Jason Falla's Foxtrot drill as part of dry fire practice. I figured it was a good drill that gave me dry fires, malfunction clearances, and reloads all in one drill. Here is some dude doing the drill. 
Now check out what I do during this course of fire.
I don't do that Foxtrot drill anymore. 
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The most dangerous thing in a fight is a thinking man.
It's ok to have different drills you have practiced. Just stay thinking and quickly decide which one is appropriate, if any, for the moment. Training to stay calm and cool headed with stress inoculation helps with this a lot, while going through a series of different drills that are situation-dependent. |
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The most dangerous thing in a fight is a thinking man. It's ok to have different drills you have practiced. Just stay thinking and quickly decide which one is appropriate, if any, for the moment. Training to stay calm and cool headed with stress inoculation helps with this a lot, while going through a series of different drills that are situation-dependent. 
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Why did you rack when it was at slide lock???  Looks to me like he practiced that drill dry a lot. While dry, the slide won't go back, so he had to rack it himself. When he fired what he knew were all the rounds in the magazine, he kept the habit of racking the slide to get it to the rear in order to prep for the emergency reload. However, in order to send the slide forward on an empty magazine, the mag couldn't have a follower in it. Did I get anywhere close on that, OP? |
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Looks to me like he practiced that drill dry a lot. While dry, the slide won't go back, so he had to rack it himself. When he fired what he knew were all the rounds in the magazine, he kept the habit of racking the slide to get it to the rear in order to prep for the emergency reload. However, in order to send the slide forward on an empty magazine, the mag couldn't have a follower in it. Did I get anywhere close on that, OP? Quoted:
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Why did you rack when it was at slide lock??? Looks to me like he practiced that drill dry a lot. While dry, the slide won't go back, so he had to rack it himself. When he fired what he knew were all the rounds in the magazine, he kept the habit of racking the slide to get it to the rear in order to prep for the emergency reload. However, in order to send the slide forward on an empty magazine, the mag couldn't have a follower in it. Did I get anywhere close on that, OP? Thank you. 
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I guess you guys are more interested in arguing over Trump than shooting threads. 
Come on Arfcom, I am disappoint! Had an officer in a jurisdiction not far from me involved in a shooting start policing his brass after the shooting... The academy now leaves all brass put until the range day is over 
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Had an officer in a jurisdiction not far from me involved in a shooting start policing his brass after the shooting... The academy now leaves all brass put until the range day is over Quoted:
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I guess you guys are more interested in arguing over Trump than shooting threads.
Come on Arfcom, I am disappoint! Had an officer in a jurisdiction not far from me involved in a shooting start policing his brass after the shooting... The academy now leaves all brass put until the range day is over I've heard stories of guys getting killed that way during the revolver days. I believe it was Chuck Haggard that told us that story. |
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I hope in a real fire fight you don't bend down to pick up your empty mags! ;) That's another one I see a lot along with atrocious use of cover and concealment. We had quite a few guys shoot barrels/partitions in one class. It was explained again to back off of the cover and shoot over/around it. It's amazing how much more attention people pay when you pull THEIR assigned take home patrol vehicle on the range as the cover... No more shooting the cover that day 
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Yeah, a pair of NY State Police Officers were killed in a gunfight. They were both found with empty brass in their shirt pocket, just like they normally did at the range. Their training failed them. 
It always seemed stupid to me to pick up brass after a string of fire and I did my best to clear my mind of whatever drill I was doing and seperate the policing of the brass from the drill mentally. Fortunately I never had to put it to the test and now picking up brass or mags is a good way to get smoked on a training day |
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That's another one I see a lot along with atrocious use of cover and concealment. We had quite a few guys shoot barrels/partitions in one class. It was explained again to back off of the cover and shoot over/around it. It's amazing how much more attention people pay when you pull THEIR assigned take home patrol vehicle on the range as the cover... No more shooting the cover that day Quoted:
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I hope in a real fire fight you don't bend down to pick up your empty mags! ;) That's another one I see a lot along with atrocious use of cover and concealment. We had quite a few guys shoot barrels/partitions in one class. It was explained again to back off of the cover and shoot over/around it. It's amazing how much more attention people pay when you pull THEIR assigned take home patrol vehicle on the range as the cover... No more shooting the cover that day I learned a little about that in both a Pannone class and a McNamara class. Don't crowd your cover. I'd like to take a class that dealt strictly with use of cover. |
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I learned a little about that in both a Pannone class and a McNamara class. Don't crowd your cover. I'd like to take a class that dealt strictly with use of cover. Quoted:
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I hope in a real fire fight you don't bend down to pick up your empty mags! ;) That's another one I see a lot along with atrocious use of cover and concealment. We had quite a few guys shoot barrels/partitions in one class. It was explained again to back off of the cover and shoot over/around it. It's amazing how much more attention people pay when you pull THEIR assigned take home patrol vehicle on the range as the cover... No more shooting the cover that day I learned a little about that in both a Pannone class and a McNamara class. Don't crowd your cover. I'd like to take a class that dealt strictly with use of cover. Force on force is great for it. You can never replicate it exactly because you don't get to choose what caliber is coming your way in a gunfight, but it doesn't take more than one or two simunitions skimming off a good or barrel to make you realize they aren't all magically absorbed into the sheet metal or brick... |
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Force on force is great for it. You can never replicate it exactly because you don't get to choose what caliber is coming your way in a gunfight, but it doesn't take more than one or two simunitions skimming off a good or barrel to make you realize they aren't all magically absorbed into the sheet metal or brick... Yup. I'd say just as many people are killed/wounded by ricochets or spall as from direct hits in a close quarters firefight. It's amazing where rifle or handgun rounds will go after glancing off of a steel structure (or a concrete floor!), and that's something that needs to be well accounted for in training. |
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Guys, I know how I fucked it up.
Here's a list of derps in the shit show of a video I posted: 1.) Tap, rack, bang on a reload. 2.) I stopped moving on the reload, (kept moving through the TRB miraculously). 3.) I failed to holster my weapon before picking up my magazine. 4.) I went into a retention posture as soon as the trigger reset. Did I miss anything? So I posted my shit up here for everyone to see, but that's not the point of the thread. A couple of posters get it, the rest not so much. Have YOU trained any derp into your defensive shooting skills that you had to unfuck later? |
Drills themselves can be training scars. You're training yourself to shoot a known number of rounds at a known target on a known start from a known position on a known range. What can we do to fix this? Get reactive targets and cover them with cheap T shirts. Have a friend set up random target layout. Start with your eyes shut and have your friend guide you in, then start scenario with a light impact to the back of the knee or head. Put 3 levels of target discrimination (symbol, shape, color, number, etc) and have only one of the targets have the 'shoot' match. This will give you a decent start towards reality.
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Guys, I know how I fucked it up. Here's a list of derps in the shit show of a video I posted: 1.) Tap, rack, bang on a reload. 2.) I stopped moving on the reload, (kept moving through the TRB miraculously). 3.) I failed to holster my weapon before picking up my magazine. 4.) I went into a retention posture as soon as the trigger reset. Did I miss anything? So I posted my shit up here for everyone to see, but that's not the point of the thread. A couple of posters get it, the rest not so much. Have YOU trained any derp into your defensive shooting skills that you had to unfuck later? Yes. Too many USPSA matches. I was leaving partially filled mags everywhere and only shooting targets twice. Also stopped pieing corners because in the rooms we built I already knew what was inside. Going easy too fast and not moving smart. |
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Yeah, a pair of NY State Police Officers were killed in a gunfight. They were both found with empty brass in their shirt pocket, just like they normally did at the range. Their training failed them.
Tactical Mythbusting: Revolver brass in the pocket |
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Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, a pair of NY State Police Officers were killed in a gunfight. They were both found with empty brass in their shirt pocket, just like they normally did at the range. Their training failed them. Tactical Mythbusting: Revolver brass in the pocket a·poc·ry·phal ?'päkr?f?l/ <input width="14" type="image" height="14" /> adjective adjective: apocryphal (of a story or statement) of doubtful authenticity, although widely circulated as being true. "an apocryphal story about a former president"
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Quoted:
Have any of you guys practiced any drills, live fire or dry, that have given you the derp? Example: I used to do Jason Falla's Foxtrot drill as part of dry fire practice. I figured it was a good drill that gave me dry fires, malfunction clearances, and reloads all in one drill. Here is some dude doing the drill.  https://youtu.be/9SeYAL7i-Ps
Now check out what I do during this course of fire. https://youtu.be/iSOXPEVgQNs
I don't do that Foxtrot drill anymore. You had good trigger finger discipline. The first guy did not. If your finger can't stay off the trigger slow down and quit trying to beat the timer. |
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Quoted: Guys, I know how I fucked it up. Here's a list of derps in the shit show of a video I posted: 1.) Tap, rack, bang on a reload. 2.) I stopped moving on the reload, (kept moving through the TRB miraculously). 3.) I failed to holster my weapon before picking up my magazine. 4.) I went into a retention posture as soon as the trigger reset. Did I miss anything? So I posted my shit up here for everyone to see, but that's not the point of the thread. A couple of posters get it, the rest not so much. Have YOU trained any derp into your defensive shooting skills that you had to unfuck later? |
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You need to come up with your own dryfire regimen that reflects what you're trying to accomplish. Taking one dryfire drill from instructor whoever and doing that all the time isn't a terribly effective way to structure your dryfire training.
I don't really dry practice malfunction clears. I do practice slide lock reloads. ...when I'm not too lazy to actually do dryfire practice. |
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Had a class where a guy would point the firearm straight down and complete a 360 before standing down. Quoted:
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Guys, I know how I fucked it up. Here's a list of derps in the shit show of a video I posted: 1.) Tap, rack, bang on a reload. 2.) I stopped moving on the reload, (kept moving through the TRB miraculously). 3.) I failed to holster my weapon before picking up my magazine. 4.) I went into a retention posture as soon as the trigger reset. Did I miss anything? So I posted my shit up here for everyone to see, but that's not the point of the thread. A couple of posters get it, the rest not so much. Have YOU trained any derp into your defensive shooting skills that you had to unfuck later?
Tactical ballet. |
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You need to come up with your own dryfire regimen that reflects what you're trying to accomplish. Taking one dryfire drill from instructor whoever and doing that all the time isn't a terribly effective way to structure your dryfire training. I don't really dry practice malfunction clears. I do practice slide lock reloads. ...when I'm not too lazy to actually do dryfire practice. Mostly now it's dry fire from concealment. I'm really trying to improve my trigger control. Striker fired weapons. They're reliable, but damn are they some shitty triggers!
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Yes. Too many USPSA matches. I was leaving partially filled mags everywhere and only shooting targets twice. Also stopped pieing corners because in the rooms we built I already knew what was inside. Going easy too fast and not moving smart. Quoted:
Quoted:
Guys, I know how I fucked it up. Here's a list of derps in the shit show of a video I posted: 1.) Tap, rack, bang on a reload. 2.) I stopped moving on the reload, (kept moving through the TRB miraculously). 3.) I failed to holster my weapon before picking up my magazine. 4.) I went into a retention posture as soon as the trigger reset. Did I miss anything? So I posted my shit up here for everyone to see, but that's not the point of the thread. A couple of posters get it, the rest not so much. Have YOU trained any derp into your defensive shooting skills that you had to unfuck later? Yes. Too many USPSA matches. I was leaving partially filled mags everywhere and only shooting targets twice. Also stopped pieing corners because in the rooms we built I already knew what was inside. Going easy too fast and not moving smart. I've always been hesitant about games because of stuff like that. |
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I've always been hesitant about games because of stuff like that. Quoted:
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Guys, I know how I fucked it up. Here's a list of derps in the shit show of a video I posted: 1.) Tap, rack, bang on a reload. 2.) I stopped moving on the reload, (kept moving through the TRB miraculously). 3.) I failed to holster my weapon before picking up my magazine. 4.) I went into a retention posture as soon as the trigger reset. Did I miss anything? So I posted my shit up here for everyone to see, but that's not the point of the thread. A couple of posters get it, the rest not so much. Have YOU trained any derp into your defensive shooting skills that you had to unfuck later? Yes. Too many USPSA matches. I was leaving partially filled mags everywhere and only shooting targets twice. Also stopped pieing corners because in the rooms we built I already knew what was inside. Going easy too fast and not moving smart. I've always been hesitant about games because of stuff like that. I stopped because of it. It was fun but I was building up enough training scars that had I done that shit in a shoot house when I was in the Army, I'd expect to relieved and busted down in rank. Typical USPSA shoots violate numerous basic fundamentals of gunfighting. You don't even mean to, but you end up instinctively do that sort of run and gun, when sometimes running fast is the worst thing you can do, even if you can shoot fast and accurate too. The brain is more important than the gun. |
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I inadvertently trained some derp into my shooting stance. When I first started practicing with a handgun I would roll my shoulders up like I was shrugging while aiming and didn't realize it for the longest. It took a lot of conscious effort to unfuck that habit but I finally did.
I video my practice sessions some times (at home, not the range) to check my form, it's helped quite a bit. |
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Quoted: Have any of you guys practiced any drills, live fire or dry, that have given you the derp? Example: I used to do Jason Falla's Foxtrot drill as part of dry fire practice. I figured it was a good drill that gave me dry fires, malfunction clearances, and reloads all in one drill. Here is some dude doing the drill. https://youtu.be/9SeYAL7i-PsNow check out what I do during this course of fire. https://youtu.be/iSOXPEVgQNsI don't do that Foxtrot drill anymore. |
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Jeez guys, it's pretty obvious if you watch both videos what happened. I dry drill trained the derp right into my reload. A little explanation would have helped for those of us who've never heard of that drill. If I want to practice a TRB drill I'll use dummy rounds mixed among live ones so my gun acts the way it would if I had a failure to fire. Now that I sort of understand the intent I'm struggling to figure out what the guy was hoping to do in the first video by dry firing then spastically jerking the slide to lock then doing a reload. That's not how you clear a double feed it's how you make it worse (unless you manually lock the slide back) because that slide isn't staying back in case of a stove pipe or double feed or FTE. Do you have an unbastardized video where Falla demonstrates the original drill with an explanation. |
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I inadvertently trained some derp into my shooting stance. When I first started practicing with a handgun I would roll my shoulders up like I was shrugging while aiming and didn't realize it for the longest. It took a lot of conscious effort to unfuck that habit but I finally did. I video my practice sessions some times (at home, not the range) to check my form, it's helped quite a bit. You mean like this: 
How did rolling your shoulders negatively affect your shooting? |
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A little explanation would have helped for those of us who've never heard of that drill. If I want to practice a TRB drill I'll use dummy rounds mixed among live ones so my gun acts the way it would if I had a failure to fire. Now that I sort of understand the intent I'm struggling to figure out what the guy was hoping to do in the first video by dry firing then spastically jerking the slide to lock then doing a reload. That's not how you clear a double feed it's how you make it worse (unless you manually lock the slide back) because that slide isn't staying back in case of a stove pipe or double feed or FTE. Do you have an unbastardized video where Falla demonstrates the original drill with an explanation. Quoted:
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Jeez guys, it's pretty obvious if you watch both videos what happened. I dry drill trained the derp right into my reload. A little explanation would have helped for those of us who've never heard of that drill. If I want to practice a TRB drill I'll use dummy rounds mixed among live ones so my gun acts the way it would if I had a failure to fire. Now that I sort of understand the intent I'm struggling to figure out what the guy was hoping to do in the first video by dry firing then spastically jerking the slide to lock then doing a reload. That's not how you clear a double feed it's how you make it worse (unless you manually lock the slide back) because that slide isn't staying back in case of a stove pipe or double feed or FTE. Do you have an unbastardized video where Falla demonstrates the original drill with an explanation. Falla took it down a long time ago. |
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You mean like this: http://files.harrispublications.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2010/03/haley-and-costa-demonstrate-shooter-communication-with-secondary-weapons.jpg How did rolling your shoulders negatively affect your shooting? Quoted:
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I inadvertently trained some derp into my shooting stance. When I first started practicing with a handgun I would roll my shoulders up like I was shrugging while aiming and didn't realize it for the longest. It took a lot of conscious effort to unfuck that habit but I finally did. I video my practice sessions some times (at home, not the range) to check my form, it's helped quite a bit. You mean like this: http://files.harrispublications.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2010/03/haley-and-costa-demonstrate-shooter-communication-with-secondary-weapons.jpg How did rolling your shoulders negatively affect your shooting? I noticed a reduction in muzzle rise when I kept my shoulders down. |
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Yeah you fucked up BUT.
A) you're practicing which is more than 90% of other gun people B) you learned from it and are moving forward while adjusting what you did wrong C) even with the fuck up you got the gun back into action rather quickly.. like less than a second quickly. no one is perfect no matter how much they train. The best we can do is continue to train and learn from our mistakes. You learned from it on the range and not real life. I consider that a win. |
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Yeah you fucked up BUT. A) you're practicing which is more than 90% of other gun people B) you learned from it and are moving forward while adjusting what you did wrong C) even with the fuck up you got the gun back into action rather quickly.. like less than a second quickly. no one is perfect no matter how much they train. The best we can do is continue to train and learn from our mistakes. You learned from it on the range and not real life. I consider that a win.
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