Posted: 11/20/2015 11:34:39 AM EDT
ok so I have seem similar topics however never did tag for results. could you guys post some links to amazon for kits you think might fill the bill for a simple inexpensive addition to my BOB. thanks I'm sure GD won't disappoint 
|
|
I know it isn't ethical to use one of these on others, but in SHTF I want some of these. Already know how to use them, well enough to not kill myself or my family.
I want a few of these and some valves. Also some of these to treat sucking chest wounds. |
|
Quoted:
I know it isn't ethical to use one of these on others, but in SHTF I want some of these. Already know how to use them, well enough to not kill myself or my family. I want a few of these and some valves. Also some of these to treat sucking chest wounds. If you don't have either of those now, you should get them. They hold a place in my IFAK. |
|
Quoted:
If you don't have either of those now, you should get them. They hold a place in my IFAK. Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it isn't ethical to use one of these on others, but in SHTF I want some of these. Already know how to use them, well enough to not kill myself or my family. I want a few of these and some valves. Also some of these to treat sucking chest wounds. If you don't have either of those now, you should get them. They hold a place in my IFAK. Yeah I will order some very soon. One of those things I seem to never "get around" to. Need to make it a point to order. Are there any other items of that ilk that I should have? Other than Israeli bandages? |
|
Not sterile. Fine if that's all you have, but there are better choices. |
|
Quoted:
Yeah I will order some very soon. One of those things I seem to never "get around" to. Need to make it a point to order. Are there any other items of that ilk that I should have? Other than Israeli bandages? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it isn't ethical to use one of these on others, but in SHTF I want some of these. Already know how to use them, well enough to not kill myself or my family. I want a few of these and some valves. Also some of these to treat sucking chest wounds. If you don't have either of those now, you should get them. They hold a place in my IFAK. Yeah I will order some very soon. One of those things I seem to never "get around" to. Need to make it a point to order. Are there any other items of that ilk that I should have? Other than Israeli bandages? I would suggest a Nasal Flange. I forget what size mine was, I think a 28, but get the one that is most common for a full sized man. You could order a dozen different sizes if you really wanted to. |
|
Quoted:
I know it isn't ethical to use one of these on others, but in SHTF I want some of these. Already know how to use them, well enough to not kill myself or my family. I want a few of these and some valves. Also some of these to treat sucking chest wounds. Don't take this the wrong way, I know we all love gear, but you should take a course. If you're trying to treat open pneumothorax the same as tension pneumothorax, that person might die on you unexpectedly. My issue was originally I had a bunch of crap with the thought that at least someone nearby might know how to use it, but its really best to take a class. Preferably one based on or at least influenced by TCCC. |
|
Don't approach this from a kit perspective.
Approach it from a training perspective. Get some competent trauma training from someone who has attended SFMS or SOCM, is a good teacher, and all the gear questions will fall into place for you. Start by studying the circulatory system of the body, learning the main arteries and veins. If you don't understand the basic anatomy and physiology, trying to treat a serious bleeder is likely to fail. 
|
|
If SHTF, and you have a sucking chest wound, and do a needle decompression.... what are the odds, it being SHTF, that you'll be able to get to high enough medical care to fix the interior trauma?
Also, when we did training for chest wounds, the doc teaching said you can end up having to do multiple decompressions over and over until you get to surgery, so are y'all packing multiple needles? That said, I keep a tourniquet, a couple crevats, and a few rolls of kerlix and coflex around. Anything requiring more than that and I'm fucked anyways. |
|
http://www.amazon.com/Patrol-Officers-Pocket-Rescue-Essentials/dp/B006X6PA4Q/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_mrai_3_dp Not great or perfect, better than nothing and budget priced. |
|
Quoted:
Don't take this the wrong way, I know we all love gear, but you should take a course. If you're trying to treat open pneumothorax the same as tension pneumothorax, that person might die on you unexpectedly. My issue was originally I had a bunch of crap with the thought that at least someone nearby might know how to use it, but its really best to take a class. Preferably one based on or at least influenced by TCCC. Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it isn't ethical to use one of these on others, but in SHTF I want some of these. Already know how to use them, well enough to not kill myself or my family. I want a few of these and some valves. Also some of these to treat sucking chest wounds. Don't take this the wrong way, I know we all love gear, but you should take a course. If you're trying to treat open pneumothorax the same as tension pneumothorax, that person might die on you unexpectedly. My issue was originally I had a bunch of crap with the thought that at least someone nearby might know how to use it, but its really best to take a class. Preferably one based on or at least influenced by TCCC. I know how to use them. I have been taught. I also know the difference between tension and open pneumo. Not treated either on a live human before, although I'm certain I could. |
|
I know you're asking about prepackaged kits, but here's the contents of my personal GSW kit:
X8 4×4 gauze X2 8×4 gauze trauma dressings ×3 occlusive dressings (gauze coated with petroleum jelly wrapped in aluminum foil for sucking chest wounds) ×1 roll of cling wrap (similar to an ace bandage) ×1 Israeli trauma dressing (cling wrap with a handle for applying hands free direct pressure) ×10 A preps (alcohol wipes) ×1 1.5" cloth tape roll ×1 trauma shears All of it wrapped up with two rubber bands for compactness. I've been an EMT for 10 years, worked a metric shit ton of GSWs, this is about the best I can do for you in the prehospital environment at my level of training. If you're going to carry around one of these kits I highly recommend you get some form of training on how to use it, it's fuckin' useless if you don't. Don't expect the dispatchers to help talk you through it either because most of them (even the certified EMDs) are just phone jockeys and have never touched a real patient. |
|
Quoted:
If SHTF, and you have a sucking chest wound, and do a needle decompression.... what are the odds, it being SHTF, that you'll be able to get to high enough medical care to fix the interior trauma? Also, when we did training for chest wounds, the doc teaching said you can end up having to do multiple decompressions over and over until you get to surgery, so are y'all packing multiple needles? That said, I keep a tourniquet, a couple crevats, and a few rolls of kerlix and coflex around. Anything requiring more than that and I'm fucked anyways. Don't know the odds of getting to medical care in time to fix the trauma. I don't want to just give up though, so I'd treat. Get a needle with a valve, leave the needle in. |
|
I have four Tac Med Solutions IFAKs:
https://www.tacmedsolutions.com/product/ifak/ I've supplemented them with two packages of combat gauze, another Tac Med TQ, an extra pair of gloves, a sharpie, a better pair of shears, and some compressed gauze. It's a tight fit but it all goes in. |
|
Quoted:
If SHTF, and you have a sucking chest wound, and do a needle decompression.... what are the odds, it being SHTF, that you'll be able to get to high enough medical care to fix the interior trauma? Quoted:
If SHTF, and you have a sucking chest wound, and do a needle decompression.... what are the odds, it being SHTF, that you'll be able to get to high enough medical care to fix the interior trauma? A tension pneumothorax can happen from a number of different reasons...like perhaps the pressure wave from an explosion, or even a severe blow to the chest that causes a tear in the lung. How severe the TP is depends on the circumstances of the injury. Given that TP accounts for a big enough chunk of preventable combat deaths for the military to train people on it, the odds that it could kill you before blood loss does seems to be pretty good. 33% of preventable combat deaths studied by the military were due to TP. Also, when we did training for chest wounds, the doc teaching said you can end up having to do multiple decompressions over and over until you get to surgery, so are y'all packing multiple needles? A TP results from air getting into the chest cavity and not getting out, which will compress the heart and lungs...eventually killing the patient. The needle poke is designed to let the air out of the chest cavity. There's really only one space where a TP stick happens because sticking big needles at random places in the chest is a bad idea. Maybe want to get better training from somebody who knows something about combat casualty care. Many medical professionals have no training in it. |
|
Quoted:
I have four Tac Med Solutions IFAKs: https://www.tacmedsolutions.com/product/ifak/ I've supplemented them with two packages of combat gauze, another Tac Med TQ, an extra pair of gloves, a sharpie, a better pair of shears, and some compressed gauze. It's a tight fit but it all goes in. I use them nearly exclusively. |
|
Quoted:
Whatever you buy - ask yourself what training you have to understand when, why and how it is used. Its not a no-brainer. Word. In past threads like these I've seen people pack tools that shouldn't be used outside of a surgery center. If you don't know EXACTLY what you're doing, you could very well do more harm than good. Take a first aid class at the community college, or Boy Scouts, or something, and be honest with yourself about what you can and cannot do. |
|
Quoted:
If SHTF, and you have a sucking chest wound, and do a needle decompression.... what are the odds, it being SHTF, that you'll be able to get to high enough medical care to fix the interior trauma? Also, when we did training for chest wounds, the doc teaching said you can end up having to do multiple decompressions over and over until you get to surgery, so are y'all packing multiple needles? That said, I keep a tourniquet, a couple crevats, and a few rolls of kerlix and coflex around. Anything requiring more than that and I'm fucked anyways. Accept that there are multiple levels of SHTF. Your friend shooting themselves in the leg on the range is clearly Shit Hitting The Fan, but advanced medical care is still available. End of the World, yeah, your NCD won't do anything long run, because that fucker is going to die, either from the initial injury or from follow on infections, unless you've got Trauma One set up in your mud room at home and the skills to correct the injury. I carry 3" Tape, 1" tape, a tourniquet, combat gauze, trauma shears, 2 pairs of gloves and a 4" Izzy in my backpack. That will let me stop major extremity hemorrhage, pack and dress 1 penetrating wound, sling and swath, improvise a chest seal (tape + plastic). If someone has penetrating chest trauma, I live in a major metro with 3 level 1 trauma centers, I can be at an ER in 10 minutes from anywhere in the city, decompression is not a concern for me. OP - you said you want this for a BOB - so focus on the injuries you're planning on treating in that scenario (bugging out) and go from there. Probably more important to be able to stabilize a rolled ankle than to decompress a chest in that scenario, because if your buddy can't walk, you're going nowhere at all. When I go to the range, I bring my aid bag - but I also bring a lot of training in how to use it, we're 45 minutes from a level 2 trauma center and any life threatening injury is being flown from the range. Buying cool stuff is great, but the training/knowledge is the key. If you have a tourniquet but put it on the wrong place, that shit won't matter. |
|
As pressure dressings go, I greatly prefer the Cinch-Tight or the OLAES bandage, as both are easier to self-apply and get right.
While we are on that topic: Whatever med supplies you get, BUY SOME TO PRACTICE WITH. You do not want your first time applying a pressure dressing or TQ to be when somebody is bleeding, people. I highly recommend Active Response Training's Tactical First Aid and System Collapse Medicine class for a number of reasons, but one of them being that instructor Greg Ellifritz actually has boxes of all these items for people to use on themselves and each other...and you'd be fucking amazed how many people, even pros, who have been to a bunch of training but have never actually touched any of this equipment until shit goes wrong. http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/available-classes |
|
Quoted:
I know you're asking about prepackaged kits, but here's the contents of my personal GSW kit: X8 4×4 gauze X2 8×4 gauze trauma dressings ×3 occlusive dressings (gauze coated with petroleum jelly wrapped in aluminum foil for sucking chest wounds) ×1 roll of cling wrap (similar to an ace bandage) ×1 Israeli trauma dressing (cling wrap with a handle for applying hands free direct pressure) ×10 A preps (alcohol wipes) ×1 1.5" cloth tape roll ×1 trauma shears All of it wrapped up with two rubber bands for compactness. I've been an EMT for 10 years, worked a metric shit ton of GSWs, this is about the best I can do for you in the prehospital environment at my level of training. If you're going to carry around one of these kits I highly recommend you get some form of training on how to use it, it's fuckin' useless if you don't. Don't expect the dispatchers to help talk you through it either because most of them (even the certified EMDs) are just phone jockeys and have never touched a real patient. No tourniquet 
|
|
Quoted:
A tension pneumothorax can happen from a number of different reasons...like perhaps the pressure wave from an explosion, or even a severe blow to the chest that causes a tear in the lung. How severe the TP is depends on the circumstances of the injury. Given that TP accounts for a big enough chunk of preventable combat deaths for the military to train people on it, the odds that it could kill you before blood loss does seems to be pretty good. A TP results from air getting into the chest cavity and not getting out, which will compress the heart and lungs...eventually killing the patient. The needle poke is designed to let the air out of the chest cavity. There's really only one space where a TP stick happens because sticking big needles at random places in the chest is a bad idea. Maybe want to get better training from somebody who knows something about combat casualty care. Many medical professionals have no training in it. Quoted:
Quoted:
If SHTF, and you have a sucking chest wound, and do a needle decompression.... what are the odds, it being SHTF, that you'll be able to get to high enough medical care to fix the interior trauma? A tension pneumothorax can happen from a number of different reasons...like perhaps the pressure wave from an explosion, or even a severe blow to the chest that causes a tear in the lung. How severe the TP is depends on the circumstances of the injury. Given that TP accounts for a big enough chunk of preventable combat deaths for the military to train people on it, the odds that it could kill you before blood loss does seems to be pretty good. Also, when we did training for chest wounds, the doc teaching said you can end up having to do multiple decompressions over and over until you get to surgery, so are y'all packing multiple needles? A TP results from air getting into the chest cavity and not getting out, which will compress the heart and lungs...eventually killing the patient. The needle poke is designed to let the air out of the chest cavity. There's really only one space where a TP stick happens because sticking big needles at random places in the chest is a bad idea. Maybe want to get better training from somebody who knows something about combat casualty care. Many medical professionals have no training in it. False There are two sites, and you can use multiple needles as long as you understand where you are going with them. You can also "blow out the clots" that are occluding the catheter if it stops venting instead of using another. FWIW neither the Military nor the civilian "tactical" med people are teaching using a valve anymore. |
|
Quoted:
No tourniquet Quoted:
Quoted:
I know you're asking about prepackaged kits, but here's the contents of my personal GSW kit: X8 4×4 gauze X2 8×4 gauze trauma dressings ×3 occlusive dressings (gauze coated with petroleum jelly wrapped in aluminum foil for sucking chest wounds) ×1 roll of cling wrap (similar to an ace bandage) ×1 Israeli trauma dressing (cling wrap with a handle for applying hands free direct pressure) ×10 A preps (alcohol wipes) ×1 1.5" cloth tape roll ×1 trauma shears All of it wrapped up with two rubber bands for compactness. I've been an EMT for 10 years, worked a metric shit ton of GSWs, this is about the best I can do for you in the prehospital environment at my level of training. If you're going to carry around one of these kits I highly recommend you get some form of training on how to use it, it's fuckin' useless if you don't. Don't expect the dispatchers to help talk you through it either because most of them (even the certified EMDs) are just phone jockeys and have never touched a real patient. No tourniquet Civilian EMS was anti-tourniquet for a very long time, it is back in the protocols but many still don't have them in their bags/on the truck, don't train on their use and don't really believe in them. |
|
Quoted:
False There are two sites, and you can use multiple needles as long as you understand where you are going with them. You can also "blow out the clots" that are occluding the catheter if it stops venting instead of using another. FWIW neither the Military nor the civilian "tactical" med people are teaching using a valve anymore. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If SHTF, and you have a sucking chest wound, and do a needle decompression.... what are the odds, it being SHTF, that you'll be able to get to high enough medical care to fix the interior trauma? A tension pneumothorax can happen from a number of different reasons...like perhaps the pressure wave from an explosion, or even a severe blow to the chest that causes a tear in the lung. How severe the TP is depends on the circumstances of the injury. Given that TP accounts for a big enough chunk of preventable combat deaths for the military to train people on it, the odds that it could kill you before blood loss does seems to be pretty good. Also, when we did training for chest wounds, the doc teaching said you can end up having to do multiple decompressions over and over until you get to surgery, so are y'all packing multiple needles? A TP results from air getting into the chest cavity and not getting out, which will compress the heart and lungs...eventually killing the patient. The needle poke is designed to let the air out of the chest cavity. There's really only one space where a TP stick happens because sticking big needles at random places in the chest is a bad idea. Maybe want to get better training from somebody who knows something about combat casualty care. Many medical professionals have no training in it. False There are two sites, and you can use multiple needles as long as you understand where you are going with them. You can also "blow out the clots" that are occluding the catheter if it stops venting instead of using another. FWIW neither the Military nor the civilian "tactical" med people are teaching using a valve anymore. Interesting, good to know. |
|
Quoted:
No tourniquet Quoted:
Quoted:
I know you're asking about prepackaged kits, but here's the contents of my personal GSW kit: X8 4×4 gauze X2 8×4 gauze trauma dressings ×3 occlusive dressings (gauze coated with petroleum jelly wrapped in aluminum foil for sucking chest wounds) ×1 roll of cling wrap (similar to an ace bandage) ×1 Israeli trauma dressing (cling wrap with a handle for applying hands free direct pressure) ×10 A preps (alcohol wipes) ×1 1.5" cloth tape roll ×1 trauma shears All of it wrapped up with two rubber bands for compactness. I've been an EMT for 10 years, worked a metric shit ton of GSWs, this is about the best I can do for you in the prehospital environment at my level of training. If you're going to carry around one of these kits I highly recommend you get some form of training on how to use it, it's fuckin' useless if you don't. Don't expect the dispatchers to help talk you through it either because most of them (even the certified EMDs) are just phone jockeys and have never touched a real patient. No tourniquet Forgot, X3 rubber tourniquet(the small blue ones for starting IVs), plus I always,wear a belt away from the house, so there's that too. ETA: Bacon is on it here, but to correct part of his statement, I actually have been trained on the tourniquet for GSWs but it is the absolute last option before you lose the pt. We like direct pressure for trauma(in most cases), the tourniquet is more for severed appendages in my training (National Registry). We're usually not more than 15 - 20min from a hospital so we're generally not trained in continuing care like .mil medics/corpsmen. |
|
Quoted:
Forgot, X3 rubber tourniquet(the small blue ones for starting IVs), plus I always,wear a belt away from the house, so there's that too. ETA: Bacon is on it here, but to correct part of his statement, I actually have been trained on the tourniquet for GSWs but it is the absolute last option before you lose the pt. We like direct pressure for trauma(in most cases), the tourniquet is more for severed appendages in my training (National Registry). We're usually not more than 15 - 20min from a hospital so we're generally not trained in continuing care like .mil medics/corpsmen. Quoted:
Quoted:
No tourniquet Forgot, X3 rubber tourniquet(the small blue ones for starting IVs), plus I always,wear a belt away from the house, so there's that too. ETA: Bacon is on it here, but to correct part of his statement, I actually have been trained on the tourniquet for GSWs but it is the absolute last option before you lose the pt. We like direct pressure for trauma(in most cases), the tourniquet is more for severed appendages in my training (National Registry). We're usually not more than 15 - 20min from a hospital so we're generally not trained in continuing care like .mil medics/corpsmen. LOL, the two things called "tourniquet" in EMS always cracks me up. National Registry has changed their tune... Current National Registry Skills Sheet for bleeding control unfortunately the military side is just as short sited, we're too used to "MEDEVAC bird in 20" that there isn't as much emphasis on long term care as there should be. |
|
Quoted:
False There are two sites, and you can use multiple needles as long as you understand where you are going with them. You can also "blow out the clots" that are occluding the catheter if it stops venting instead of using another. FWIW neither the Military nor the civilian "tactical" med people are teaching using a valve anymore. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If SHTF, and you have a sucking chest wound, and do a needle decompression.... what are the odds, it being SHTF, that you'll be able to get to high enough medical care to fix the interior trauma? A tension pneumothorax can happen from a number of different reasons...like perhaps the pressure wave from an explosion, or even a severe blow to the chest that causes a tear in the lung. How severe the TP is depends on the circumstances of the injury. Given that TP accounts for a big enough chunk of preventable combat deaths for the military to train people on it, the odds that it could kill you before blood loss does seems to be pretty good. Also, when we did training for chest wounds, the doc teaching said you can end up having to do multiple decompressions over and over until you get to surgery, so are y'all packing multiple needles? A TP results from air getting into the chest cavity and not getting out, which will compress the heart and lungs...eventually killing the patient. The needle poke is designed to let the air out of the chest cavity. There's really only one space where a TP stick happens because sticking big needles at random places in the chest is a bad idea. Maybe want to get better training from somebody who knows something about combat casualty care. Many medical professionals have no training in it. False There are two sites, and you can use multiple needles as long as you understand where you are going with them. You can also "blow out the clots" that are occluding the catheter if it stops venting instead of using another. FWIW neither the Military nor the civilian "tactical" med people are teaching using a valve anymore. We carry valves but don't really practice with them. The ones I've done were straight needle. Haven't heard of blowing out the cath, just taught to stick again right next to it. As for the TQ, when I went through it wasn't taught. Then a few years later suddenly we were being taught go straight to TQ. Most places carry them now, rarely get used. I know every cop here is issued them though. When you do good training there is a lot you learn to do with what you have. Had a doc teach needle trachs with an 18g, and 5cc syringe without the plunger as a bvm adapter. |
|
Quoted:
LOL, the two things called "tourniquet" in EMS always cracks me up. National Registry has changed their tune... Current National Registry Skills Sheet for bleeding control unfortunately the military side is just as short sited, we're too used to "MEDEVAC bird in 20" that there isn't as much emphasis on long term care as there should be. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No tourniquet Forgot, X3 rubber tourniquet(the small blue ones for starting IVs), plus I always,wear a belt away from the house, so there's that too. ETA: Bacon is on it here, but to correct part of his statement, I actually have been trained on the tourniquet for GSWs but it is the absolute last option before you lose the pt. We like direct pressure for trauma(in most cases), the tourniquet is more for severed appendages in my training (National Registry). We're usually not more than 15 - 20min from a hospital so we're generally not trained in continuing care like .mil medics/corpsmen. LOL, the two things called "tourniquet" in EMS always cracks me up. National Registry has changed their tune... Current National Registry Skills Sheet for bleeding control unfortunately the military side is just as short sited, we're too used to "MEDEVAC bird in 20" that there isn't as much emphasis on long term care as there should be. We have 60-90 min ground to a trauma center. When the weather is shit and no birds will fly, you learn fast. |
|
Quoted:
LOL, the two things called "tourniquet" in EMS always cracks me up. National Registry has changed their tune... Current National Registry Skills Sheet for bleeding control unfortunately the military side is just as short sited, we're too used to "MEDEVAC bird in 20" that there isn't as much emphasis on long term care as there should be. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No tourniquet Forgot, X3 rubber tourniquet(the small blue ones for starting IVs), plus I always,wear a belt away from the house, so there's that too. ETA: Bacon is on it here, but to correct part of his statement, I actually have been trained on the tourniquet for GSWs but it is the absolute last option before you lose the pt. We like direct pressure for trauma(in most cases), the tourniquet is more for severed appendages in my training (National Registry). We're usually not more than 15 - 20min from a hospital so we're generally not trained in continuing care like .mil medics/corpsmen. LOL, the two things called "tourniquet" in EMS always cracks me up. National Registry has changed their tune... Current National Registry Skills Sheet for bleeding control unfortunately the military side is just as short sited, we're too used to "MEDEVAC bird in 20" that there isn't as much emphasis on long term care as there should be. That's us too, never more than 20min from a helicopter(with a flight medic and nurse, Higher Level of Care, except for shitty weather). On really fucked up patients, we're really dependent on the helicopter because of protocols and/or state laws. |
|
My point earlier was more that in the end of the world etc, taking penetrating trauma to the chest is gonna be the end of you without higher care. Also, that if you're alone and take a hit like that, the likely hood of being able to self treat, especially if still under threat, is probably gonna be pretty slim.
If as bacon said, you are simply prepping for shtf as an acute event and not the world ending, you've got more of a chance. Edit: then again, I'm from the Internet and just passing through here. |
|
Quoted:
My point earlier was more that in the end of the world etc, taking penetrating trauma to the chest is gonna be the end of you without higher care. Also, that if you're alone and take a hit like that, the likely hood of being able to self treat, especially if still under threat, is probably gonna be pretty slim. If as bacon said, you are simply prepping for shtf as an acute event and not the world ending, you've got more of a chance. Soooooo, what? We just shouldn't prepare then? That's a lot like saying "if you hit a wall at 150mph no seat belt is going to save you. So why wear seat belts?" Maybe you're not trying to come across that way, but that's the way I perceive it. |
|
Quoted:
Soooooo, what? We just shouldn't prepare then? That's a lot like saying "if you hit a wall at 150mph no seat belt is going to save you. So why wear seat belts?" Maybe you're not trying to come across that way, but that's the way I perceive it. Quoted:
Quoted:
My point earlier was more that in the end of the world etc, taking penetrating trauma to the chest is gonna be the end of you without higher care. Also, that if you're alone and take a hit like that, the likely hood of being able to self treat, especially if still under threat, is probably gonna be pretty slim. If as bacon said, you are simply prepping for shtf as an acute event and not the world ending, you've got more of a chance. Soooooo, what? We just shouldn't prepare then? That's a lot like saying "if you hit a wall at 150mph no seat belt is going to save you. So why wear seat belts?" Maybe you're not trying to come across that way, but that's the way I perceive it. I see how it can come across that way. Everyone should prepare. Look at what mass cpr training has done for survival rates, when damn near everyone walking around now knows to do compressions. I guess my point is if you're gonna stock up on Med supplies and carry them, go learn how to use them and the basic anatomy involved. But have a plan past the point of immediate self treatment, if that's possible. |
|
Quoted:
My point earlier was more that in the end of the world etc, taking penetrating trauma to the chest is gonna be the end of you without higher care. Also, that if you're alone and take a hit like that, the likely hood of being able to self treat, especially if still under threat, is probably gonna be pretty slim. If as bacon said, you are simply prepping for shtf as an acute event and not the world ending, you've got more of a chance. Edit: then again, I'm from the Internet and just passing through here. It looks to me like most of the people here asking about these kits have little to no actual training. The recommendation of those of us who have some training (in my case, EMT-Basic) is to go get some kind of basic first aid training first, then decide what you are capable of doing then assemble a kit tailored to your skill level. Notice how there are untrained folks asking about needle decompressions? Also notice a lack of Paramedic level gear in my kit as a experienced EMT. If I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, I'm not doing it. "Do no harm, do know harm". If you don't want or can't get training, I would recommend you get some gauze and tape and apply direct pressure until skilled help arrives. This isn't going to help if there is no access to higher levels of care in a TEOTWAWKI scenario and you or someone in your party takes a hit anymore than a graze. Most folks on here asking about this just need to attend a basic first aid class, get a small first aid kit, and try not to pretend you're Dr. House. |
|
Quoted:
We carry valves but don't really practice with them. The ones I've done were straight needle. Haven't heard of blowing out the cath, just taught to stick again right next to it. As for the TQ, when I went through it wasn't taught. Then a few years later suddenly we were being taught go straight to TQ. Most places carry them now, rarely get used. I know every cop here is issued them though. When you do good training there is a lot you learn to do with what you have. Had a doc teach needle trachs with an 18g, and 5cc syringe without the plunger as a bvm adapter. Quoted:
We carry valves but don't really practice with them. The ones I've done were straight needle. Haven't heard of blowing out the cath, just taught to stick again right next to it. As for the TQ, when I went through it wasn't taught. Then a few years later suddenly we were being taught go straight to TQ. Most places carry them now, rarely get used. I know every cop here is issued them though. When you do good training there is a lot you learn to do with what you have. Had a doc teach needle trachs with an 18g, and 5cc syringe without the plunger as a bvm adapter. The "standard training" is just dart them again, but generally the reason that a catheter that was providing decompression stops working is a clot or mucus occludes it, blowing it out with 1cc or so of air should open the cath back up. Our ambulances carry 2 needles, it might be necessary to conserve those resources. Check on the improvised needle trach, I will for sure look at that! We have 60-90 min ground to a trauma center. When the weather is shit and no birds will fly, you learn fast. No shit, right? On the small chance you're in Eagle Pass, shoot me a PM |
|
Quoted:
The "standard training" is just dart them again, but generally the reason that a catheter that was providing decompression stops working is a clot or mucus occludes it, blowing it out with 1cc or so of air should open the cath back up. Our ambulances carry 2 needles, it might be necessary to conserve those resources. Check on the improvised needle trach, I will for sure look at that! No shit, right? On the small chance you're in Eagle Pass, shoot me a PM Quoted:
Quoted:
We carry valves but don't really practice with them. The ones I've done were straight needle. Haven't heard of blowing out the cath, just taught to stick again right next to it. As for the TQ, when I went through it wasn't taught. Then a few years later suddenly we were being taught go straight to TQ. Most places carry them now, rarely get used. I know every cop here is issued them though. When you do good training there is a lot you learn to do with what you have. Had a doc teach needle trachs with an 18g, and 5cc syringe without the plunger as a bvm adapter. The "standard training" is just dart them again, but generally the reason that a catheter that was providing decompression stops working is a clot or mucus occludes it, blowing it out with 1cc or so of air should open the cath back up. Our ambulances carry 2 needles, it might be necessary to conserve those resources. Check on the improvised needle trach, I will for sure look at that! We have 60-90 min ground to a trauma center. When the weather is shit and no birds will fly, you learn fast. No shit, right? On the small chance you're in Eagle Pass, shoot me a PM I'm much further East. If you're down in that area I feel for ya on finding a trauma center. Unless they have one now? I worked with a guy that worked out west years and years ago and would tell stories about having to stop and get gas on the way to and from the hospital at the halfway point. |
|
Quoted:
I'm much further East. If you're down in that area I feel for ya on finding a trauma center. Unless they have one now? I worked with a guy that worked out west years and years ago and would tell stories about having to stop and get gas on the way to and from the hospital at the halfway point. It was just an unrelated thought. I'm in the Denver area, but I totally realize how spoiled we are having so many good hospitals so close. be safe out there |
|
Quoted: It looks to me like most of the people here asking about these kits have little to no actual training. The recommendation of those of us who have some training (in my case, EMT-Basic) is to go get some kind of basic first aid training first, then decide what you are capable of doing then assemble a kit tailored to your skill level. Notice how there are untrained folks asking about needle decompressions? Also notice a lack of Paramedic level gear in my kit as a experienced EMT. If I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, I'm not doing it. "Do no harm, do know harm". If you don't want or can't get training, I would recommend you get some gauze and tape and apply direct pressure until skilled help arrives. This isn't going to help if there is no access to higher levels of care in a TEOTWAWKI scenario and you or someone in your party takes a hit anymore than a graze. Most folks on here asking about this just need to attend a basic first aid class, get a small first aid kit, and try not to pretend you're Dr. House. Quoted: Quoted: My point earlier was more that in the end of the world etc, taking penetrating trauma to the chest is gonna be the end of you without higher care. Also, that if you're alone and take a hit like that, the likely hood of being able to self treat, especially if still under threat, is probably gonna be pretty slim. If as bacon said, you are simply prepping for shtf as an acute event and not the world ending, you've got more of a chance. Edit: then again, I'm from the Internet and just passing through here. It looks to me like most of the people here asking about these kits have little to no actual training. The recommendation of those of us who have some training (in my case, EMT-Basic) is to go get some kind of basic first aid training first, then decide what you are capable of doing then assemble a kit tailored to your skill level. Notice how there are untrained folks asking about needle decompressions? Also notice a lack of Paramedic level gear in my kit as a experienced EMT. If I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, I'm not doing it. "Do no harm, do know harm". If you don't want or can't get training, I would recommend you get some gauze and tape and apply direct pressure until skilled help arrives. This isn't going to help if there is no access to higher levels of care in a TEOTWAWKI scenario and you or someone in your party takes a hit anymore than a graze. Most folks on here asking about this just need to attend a basic first aid class, get a small first aid kit, and try not to pretend you're Dr. House.  Its popular to Tier 1™ one's way into buying gear - but you can't BS your way to a fix when someone is seriously hurt. Don't buy anything that you haven't had hands-on training (and I don't mean the Internet) with. Whipping out an Izzy bandage or thinking you're going to snake an airway or slap on a tourniquet isn't a "uhhhh...which end...ummm how tight, uhhh how much pressure...errr how does this...." moment. And FWIW - QuikClot isn't Magic Fairy Dust. |