Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 4/1/2003 8:57:31 AM EDT
Source: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/04/01/BA81483.DTL Boss orders cops to hide flag scarfs Some officers wore bandannas under helmets at war protests Jaxon Van Derbeken, Chronicle Staff Writer Tuesday, April 1, 2003 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do these colors run? If they are red, white and blue and worn openly by San Francisco police officers, they will have to go. Acting police Chief Alex Fagan on Monday said it was inappropriate for officers to don American flag bandannas while policing war protests. On Monday, Fagan saw photographs showing about five officers who had taken off their helmets during a protest, displaying the colors underneath. He said the department had heard from anti-war protesters and those who support the war in Iraq that the bandanna-flags should not be displayed by officers. "I think it's inappropriate," Fagan said. "Here we are at war -- I just don't like it. The point is, we have a uniform. Even more troubling to me was that it is the flag. It offended not only the protesters, it offended the pro- war group." "We're not making a big issue of it," he said. "It's not going to happen again. If they are wearing those bandannas, they should keep their helmets on." The department has a strict policy that dictates what's acceptable to wear, Fagan said. None of the officers who wore the bandannas during the protests will be subject to discipline, he said. Bonnie Weinstein, co-founder of Bay Area United Against War, said flag- wearing cops "might seem like kind of a threat, like they're saying 'You know what side I'm on.' " "It's inflammatory, and it's obviously meant to annoy people," she added. "But I also feel police should have the right to express their opinions, even on the job. It's a matter of free speech." Chris Cunnie, president of the Police Officers Association, said officers wear bandannas -- red white and blue or otherwise -- under their helmets for one reason: comfort. "If somebody is wearing a bandanna for comfort, I don't see the issue," he said. Michele Grey, manager of Kaplan's Surplus, said her store had sold about 70 of the bandannas to police officers since the protests started. ''They came in a couple of times; they bought quite a few," she said, adding that the cost is a buck. ''They are all wearing them under their helmets." "It was something they did -- they said it got a lot of attention," she said. ''They just said people were all shocked when they took off their helmets." Grey was reluctant to wade into the debate about what police should or should not wear. "I don't know, it's not really for me to say," she said. "If they have rules about their dress code, they have to follow them." Chronicle staff writer Steve Rubenstein contributed to this report. / E-mail Jaxon Van Derbeken at jvanderbeken@sfchronicle.com.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 9:22:14 AM EDT
San Fagsisco sucks, but wearing the flag as a piece of clothing is inappropriate, especially wearing it as a sweat rag. Scott
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 10:01:45 AM EDT
Hmmm... dunno how I feel about this. I agree that using an image of the flag as a sweat rag is not the most respectful thing to do. But they are not actually using FLAGS themselves as a doo-rag. Just a bandana. And it's their way of expressing how they feel about the country and the war in an area that is anti-American enough to fit right in in Iraq, France, or China. Free speech is only a mantra in SF if it is the same socialistic, anti-America, anti-war speech as all the wingnuts there spew. I say, good for you cops down there. Evidentally Willy Brown hasn't replaced all the cops with pink-pantied whiners yet...
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 10:23:56 AM EDT
look, this is CA folks. CA=gangland. You wear red your on one side, blue on the other, green who knows. the old RWB stands for this country in general and unity amongst all cultures and backgrounds. So they are patriotic, so the fuck what? It's not like they had ripped a real flag and put it on their heads....people please, calm the fuck down.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 10:30:25 AM EDT
I think it was a good way to stick it to the anti-war protesters and show some patriotism.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 10:38:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 10:45:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 82ndAbn: San Fransicko didn't have a problem with it after the terrorist attacks! Now, all of a sudden, its bad. Damn, what a bunch of two-faced, hypocritical, drones.
View Quote
No arguement from me about the traitorous scumbags in the bay area. However, I think I recall that there were news stories after 9/11 about the SF area people showing their patriotic colors being chastised or something. Those in power down there are TOTAL commies thru and thru.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 11:15:20 AM EDT
I agree with the using the flag as a sweat rag is disrespectful. However, I think we should encourage the practice it if it inflames the Anti-American protestors.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 11:34:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scottman: San Fagsisco sucks, but wearing the flag as a piece of clothing is inappropriate, especially wearing it as a sweat rag. Scott
View Quote
I didn't read where the cops went to Flag Poles and took down the Flag to use as a sweat rag.... It's a bandana - Not a Flag. Next thing you know, drinking out of a paper cup on the 4th of July that has a flag on it would be a crime.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 11:41:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2003 11:41:53 AM EDT by Scottman]
Originally Posted By s0ulzer0: I didn't read where the cops went to Flag Poles and took down the Flag to use as a sweat rag.... It's a bandana - Not a Flag.
View Quote
Well gee...how big do the dimensions have to be before it counts as a flag....? [rolleyes] Scott
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 11:46:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2003 12:10:25 PM EDT by s0ulzer0]
Originally Posted By Scottman:
Originally Posted By s0ulzer0: I didn't read where the cops went to Flag Poles and took down the Flag to use as a sweat rag.... It's a bandana - Not a Flag.
View Quote
Well gee...how big do the dimensions have to be before it counts as a flag....? [rolleyes] Scott
View Quote
Were they flying them as flags and then putting them on their heads? The same kind of extreme scrutiny could be used to vilify a number of things. ~s0ulzer0
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 12:01:21 PM EDT
A uniform is just that. No embellishments are allowed (if you follow the letter of the law). The bandanas are being shown as a tool to inflame the sentiments of the "protesters". Not very professional. Wear the uniform and do your job. Let the protestors show themselves to be the assholes that they are without being provoked. And Chief Fagan is no pussy.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 12:03:33 PM EDT
And, yeah I wear a uniform. And no flags (or any other unauthorized embellishments) are allowed.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 12:34:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:
Originally Posted By Scottman: San Fagsisco sucks, but wearing the flag as a piece of clothing is inappropriate, especially wearing it as a sweat rag. Scott
View Quote
I didn't read where the cops went to Flag Poles and took down the Flag to use as a sweat rag.... It's a bandana - Not a Flag. Next thing you know, drinking out of a paper cup on the 4th of July that has a flag on it would be a crime.
View Quote
It already is. 36 USC 10 (the Flag Code) defines "flag" thus:
The words ''flag, standard, colors, or ensign'', as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.
View Quote
What this means is that anything that represents the flag is a flag. The bandannas, while not conforming to the flag specification rigidly, do clearly represent the flag. Looking at another section of the Flag Code, we have this very clear statement:
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.
View Quote
So, those that wrap themselves in the flag are doing so in clear violation of the Flag Code. Regarding your paper cup query, that too is specifically addressed in the Flag Code as well:
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. [red]It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.[/red] Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
View Quote
Clear as a bell. If the cops want to wear bandannas under their riot gear, I say let 'em. But to wear what is clearly a representation of the American Flag is improper, inappropriate, and in clear violation of the Flag Code. I fly my flag with pride, honor and respect. It sickens me sometimes to see the flag used in gaudy displays of fair-weather patriotism. If you mean to honor this great nation by flying our beautiful flag, please do so properly.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 12:55:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2003 1:02:42 PM EDT by s0ulzer0]
DzlBenz, With what you stated, then wearing an American Flag patch would be "apparel", even on a uniform, it's still apparel. To call those who like to wear flag hats, bandannas, flag painted gas tanks on motorcycles, and the like to be "fair weather" - I disagree. Why dosen't the government pass a ban on making "representations" of the US Flag? If it's not a flag, it is illegal to make. Those making or wearing said items subject to fine, jail and/or loss of liberty & property. Hell, while we're at it, lets start taking everything to the extreme, where does it end? What about the US postage stamp??? It's a "representation" of the flag.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 1:12:34 PM EDT
s0ulzer0: There is a specific section of the Flag Code that addresses patches on uniforms:
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
View Quote
A flag painted on the tank of a motorcycle is not at all the same as wearing a do-rag made to appear as if it were a flag. In the case of a flag affixed and displayed properly from a vehicle, the flag is shown fully, or represented to be flying as if on a staff. This would be a proper display of the flag. Wadded up on someone's head AND THEN COVERED UP WITH A RIOT HELMET is wholly inappropriate. The flag should not touch anything below it, and that includes a human head. If you are to accept a do-rag made of the flag, then you must be prepared to accept flag skivvies, too. And I pray that you are decent enough, and I'm sure you are, to find that prospect most objectionable. There is no need to enact new legislation to further protect our flag. The Flag Code already exists and is quite comprehensive in its scope and depth. The problem is that most people are too damn stupid, self-involved or lazy to actually take 5 minutes, read through the thing and pay the flag the respect that it's due.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 1:13:25 PM EDT
I have no problem with them burning American Flags. Oh... fLag Sorry nevermind.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 1:31:37 PM EDT
What you mean the protestors are offended by the flag??? I thought they said they love America and just don't want us to be in war hmmmmm interesting, so basically these protestors are against America hmmmm interesting idiots should just go home and stop blocking the streets its not like the protests are actually going to end the war, remember Vietnam? Those protests did nothing but make people hate other people and have people get injured and killed oy when the liberals ever learn (probably never i dont think they can thats why there democrats)
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 1:32:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DzlBenz: s0ulzer0: There is a specific section of the Flag Code that addresses patches on uniforms:
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
View Quote
A flag painted on the tank of a motorcycle is not at all the same as wearing a do-rag made to appear as if it were a flag. In the case of a flag affixed and displayed properly from a vehicle, the flag is shown fully, or represented to be flying as if on a staff. This would be a proper display of the flag. Wadded up on someone's head AND THEN COVERED UP WITH A RIOT HELMET is wholly inappropriate. The flag should not touch anything below it, and that includes a human head. If you are to accept a do-rag made of the flag, then you must be prepared to accept flag skivvies, too. And I pray that you are decent enough, and I'm sure you are, to find that prospect most objectionable. There is no need to enact new legislation to further protect our flag. The Flag Code already exists and is quite comprehensive in its scope and depth. The problem is that most people are too damn stupid, self-involved or lazy to actually take 5 minutes, read through the thing and pay the flag the respect that it's due.
View Quote
Thanks for giving me an informative answer and, yes, I can see your view. I would never wear flag underpants, no. I wouldn't be offended by those that did either. I - me personally - don't see it as a "flag". It's underpants, or a bandanna, and such, not meant to be an actual flag. I do not see that as desecration. But - take a real flag and burn it or further do desecrating acts to it, then that offends me. ~s0ulzer0
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 2:23:08 PM EDT
s0ulzer0: I must admit that the concept of "representation[b]=[/b]flag" is rather abstract, and hard to aply in a black-and-white sense. Like many of the laws and regulations that we, a free people, live by, the Flag Code is not so strict as to dictate every specific action. It is open to interpretation, and until some particular section of the Code is challenged in a court of law, that section will remain somewhat vague. With regard to underpants, I suppose the best thing is to not be too curious about the underpants of others. I think this is a good policy for life in general: "Don't ask others about their underpants." It never turns out well.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 3:23:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2003 3:29:50 PM EDT by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By Scottman: wearing the flag as a piece of clothing is inappropriate
View Quote
Cutting up an actual flag and wearing it as clothing would be inappropriate. But a bandana, or bikini for that matter, that resemble the flag are not in appropriate. [img]http://altura.speedera.net/ccimg.catalogcity.com/200000/203300/203395/products/3040068.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 3:37:58 PM EDT
[size=6]FLAG OF THE DAY!!!![/SIZE=6] IBTL! Good one, AR15fan!
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 9:23:30 PM EDT
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform.
View Quote
So Uncle Sam, and Rocky are both crooks?
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 9:34:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 9:40:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 9:58:59 PM EDT
I worked in the city for 2.5 years and Im here to tell ya, that is one assbackwards place, the Librals have taken over and it is a cesspool as far as I can see.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 10:06:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2003 10:12:10 PM EDT by SeaDweller]
If these scumbags are offended by the US flag then a big FU to them. Those pathetic losers gonna protest this flag too? Lifted from someone's site. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=9959[/img] I think this guy wants a few choice words with those taxpayer money wasting pukes. Wonder what those tubes are? Is this the Jesse James anti-riot vehicle( protest buster ) we've been awaiting? Soon to make it's debut.... [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=9957[/img]
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 10:09:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2003 10:27:56 PM EDT by SeaDweller]
SFPD got it going on! Bling! [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=9960[/img] Chances are they won't be thinking about the US flag inside on of these: [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=9961[/img]
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 10:16:16 PM EDT
I have to say this is quite appropriate: [img]http://www.allamericanbikini.com/shop/media/StarandStripesBikiniSwimFit.jpg[/img] Love the Flag, Respect the Flag. But don't get all freaky about it.
Link Posted: 4/1/2003 10:36:11 PM EDT
When we are finished in Iraq, can we PLEASE liberate Kalifornia from the wacked out, socialists hippies who are holding a entire US state hostage?
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 12:11:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 82ndAbn: San Fransicko didn't have a problem with it after the terrorist attacks! Now, all of a sudden, its bad. Damn, what a bunch of two-faced, hypocritical, drones. Just like Klinton, trying to please everyone, especially the leftist weirdos. Freedom of speech is only advocated by the left if its some whacked out comment - like that Columbia University professor's "I hope a lot of our troops get killed" garbage. But when it comes to simple patriotism like displaying the friggin' flag of your OWN COUNTRY, its inappropriate. [rolleyes] Damn!
View Quote
Gotta love this freedom of speach!
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 12:16:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: When we are finished in Iraq, can we PLEASE liberate Kalifornia from the wacked out, socialists hippies who are holding a entire US state hostage?
View Quote
Yes, Yes, Please do!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Top Top