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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:02:31 PM EDT
35 American Mariners aboard. Their last communication said they had lost power and had a 15 degree list.
My deep sea brothers need some prayers. Two ocean going tugs have been sent out to help them and the CG is searching as well. https://gcaptain.com/tote-maritime-us-cargo-ship-el-faro-missing-in-hurricane-joaquin/#.Vg6nVxNViko |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:05:47 PM EDT
[#1]
sucks...
Not the place to be in any ship right now. edit: |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:10:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Is 15 degrees really that bad?
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:12:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? Yes. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:12:55 PM EDT
[#4]
They were going from Jacksonville to Puerto Rico. Is it normal from them to sail off into a hurricane like that ?
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:13:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? 1" tall, no. 150' tall, that's a whole lot of lean. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:14:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? Loaded down with over 300 containers on deck and more containers and cars below. I'd imagine the list plus the weight up top would be bad. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:14:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Built 1975? That's really old for a container ship, isn't it?
http://www.worldshipping.org/about-the-industry/liner-ships/container-ship-design
Container ships have an approximate lifespan of 26 years. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:15:02 PM EDT
[#8]
What kind of lifeboats do they have on those? Any chance they could've gotten off the ship?
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:16:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? Depends. In flat calm seas it's worrisome; in the middle of a hurricane it's pretty bad. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:16:46 PM EDT
[#10]
prayer sent
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:18:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kind of lifeboats do they have on those? Any chance they could've gotten off the ship? Usually this style and inflatables. 
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:18:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kind of lifeboats do they have on those? Any chance they could've gotten off the ship? With a ship like that im guessing it capsized pretty catastrophically if it did go over... so hopefully they realized they needed to get off before that happened if that is the case. Hope its not a WCS and they lost coms or something... prayers for those on board. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:19:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were going from Jacksonville to Puerto Rico. Is it normal from them to sail off into a hurricane like that ? The Navy will send its ships out to sea if a hurricane is approaching, better to ride it out at sea than get battered alongside a pier. However, they usually will route those ships away from a hurricane and not towards it. I'm guessing that merchants will do the same. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:19:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Loaded down with over 300 containers on deck and more containers and cars below. I'd imagine the list plus the weight up top would be bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? Loaded down with over 300 containers on deck and more containers and cars below. I'd imagine the list plus the weight up top would be bad. and no propulsion according to the article. Not good with a storm around. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:21:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Usually this style and inflatables. http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RByTKcbWrelM/Totally-Enclosed-FRP-Lifeboat-Rescue-Boat.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What kind of lifeboats do they have on those? Any chance they could've gotten off the ship? Usually this style and inflatables. http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RByTKcbWrelM/Totally-Enclosed-FRP-Lifeboat-Rescue-Boat.jpg Here are pictures of the ship. Cant see any on it... It would have to have some somewhere though. Edit: Looks like white hulls w/open tops maybe top and each side of the tower/superstructure/whatever. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:21:58 PM EDT
[#16]
Prayers for all involved. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:23:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Usually this style and inflatables. http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RByTKcbWrelM/Totally-Enclosed-FRP-Lifeboat-Rescue-Boat.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What kind of lifeboats do they have on those? Any chance they could've gotten off the ship? Usually this style and inflatables. http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RByTKcbWrelM/Totally-Enclosed-FRP-Lifeboat-Rescue-Boat.jpg 
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:25:18 PM EDT
[#18]
If El Faro (the lighthouse) has been lost, I hope her crew is alive in the lifeboats. Aren't modern lifeboats equipped with some sort of transponder that will emit an emergency beacon?
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:25:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Doesn't El Faro mean "the lighthouse"? |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:26:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends. In flat calm seas it's worrisome; in the middle of a hurricane it's pretty bad. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is 15 degrees really that bad? Depends. In flat calm seas it's worrisome; in the middle of a hurricane it's pretty bad. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:28:40 PM EDT
[#21]
I'm not an ocean guy... is it common to continue steaming INTO a hurricane?
Or, if not for the engineering problems, would they normally have deviated? |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:35:56 PM EDT
[#22]
This is a small industry. I pray the get the plant back up and get to port safely.
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:36:01 PM EDT
[#23]
20-30' waves and no power - no bueno.
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:36:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Built 1975? That's really old for a container ship, isn't it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Built 1975? That's really old for a container ship, isn't it? http://www.worldshipping.org/about-the-industry/liner-ships/container-ship-design
Container ships have an approximate lifespan of 26 years. US port to US port; the ship must be built and flagged in the US. (The Jones Act) Since we aren't competitive at shipbuilding, a lot of that fleet is very old. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:54:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
US port to US port; the ship must be built and flagged in the US. (The Jones Act) Since we aren't competitive at shipbuilding, a lot of that fleet is very old. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Built 1975? That's really old for a container ship, isn't it? http://www.worldshipping.org/about-the-industry/liner-ships/container-ship-design
Container ships have an approximate lifespan of 26 years. US port to US port; the ship must be built and flagged in the US. (The Jones Act) Since we aren't competitive at shipbuilding, a lot of that fleet is very old. TOTE is building a pair of CNG-powered ships at NASSCO to replace these. One of them has already launched and should be near delivery. The other should be ready to launch very soon. I know NASSCO was having problems with the ships, though. If their problems are anything like my problems, they need all the help they can get. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:57:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? Yes. No expert here but these things come to mind 35 Crew means it is a sizeable ship . 15% roll is one thing but a 15% list means sizeable cargo shifting or a good deal of flooding (possible both ) I agree on the bad. Not sure what happens if a container ship gets to the point where it is sinking . To a certain extent the containers themselves would have a fair bit of buoyancy but they could be breaking loose at some point |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:58:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depends. In flat calm seas it's worrisome; in the middle of a hurricane it's pretty bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? Depends. In flat calm seas it's worrisome; in the middle of a hurricane it's pretty bad. I wonder what the metacentric height is with all of those containers. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:59:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not an ocean guy... is it common to continue steaming INTO a hurricane? Or, if not for the engineering problems, would they normally have deviated? If you're already IN the hurricane, then yes. You heave to... Point your bow into the winds and seas to get the best possible ride and maintain headway. Ideally, you look at weather forecasts and go around as best you can. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 3:59:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Prayers sent.
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:00:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
20-30' waves and no power - no bueno. Despite modern technology, the sea is still a dangerous place. Definitely not a good position to be in. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:00:16 PM EDT
[#32]
yes this ship was old, TOTE had slated this ship and it's sistership for replacement next year, there are 2 newbuilds coming out. this ship carried enclosed lifeboats but not freefall lifeboats 15 degee list when you've lost the plant can be very bad news especially on a RO-RO with lots of open interior deck areas for water to move adding the danger of free surface effect. this one is hitting pretty close to home, I went to school with 3 pf the people onboard.
USCG has 2 C-130's searching. http://www.joc.com/maritime-news/container-lines/coast-guard-searches-missing-tote-ship-bahamas_20151002.html |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:00:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Tag for updates
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:02:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were going from Jacksonville to Puerto Rico. Is it normal from them to sail off into a hurricane like that ? Isn't the storm quite a bit north of Jacksonville? As they head south to PR they should have been moving away from the storm but I am not sure of the timing as far as where they and the storm was when they left. With a sizeable ship being in port or near shore is no place to be in a storm |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:09:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isn't the storm quite a bit north of Jacksonville? As they head south to PR they should have been moving away from the storm but I am not sure of the timing as far as where they and the storm was when they left. With a sizeable ship being in port or near shore is no place to be in a storm Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They were going from Jacksonville to Puerto Rico. Is it normal from them to sail off into a hurricane like that ? Isn't the storm quite a bit north of Jacksonville? As they head south to PR they should have been moving away from the storm but I am not sure of the timing as far as where they and the storm was when they left. With a sizeable ship being in port or near shore is no place to be in a storm The eye is still in the Bahamas. It hasn't moved north at all really |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:11:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The eye is still in the Bahamas. It hasn't moved north at all really Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They were going from Jacksonville to Puerto Rico. Is it normal from them to sail off into a hurricane like that ? Isn't the storm quite a bit north of Jacksonville? As they head south to PR they should have been moving away from the storm but I am not sure of the timing as far as where they and the storm was when they left. With a sizeable ship being in port or near shore is no place to be in a storm The eye is still in the Bahamas. It hasn't moved north at all really which is whats making the coast guard's job so difficult. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:12:44 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? The Interstate Highway system allows a 6% grade - three degrees - because any more than that is too steep an incline. Fifteen degrees is very bad. The Tower Of Pisa had to be restored when the lean angle was five and a half degrees. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:15:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Interstate Highway system allows a 6% grade - three degrees - because any more than that is too steep an incline. Fifteen degrees is very bad. The Tower Of Pisa had to be restored when the lean angle was five and a half degrees. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? The Interstate Highway system allows a 6% grade - three degrees - because any more than that is too steep an incline. Fifteen degrees is very bad. The Tower Of Pisa had to be restored when the lean angle was five and a half degrees. bear in mind we're not talking about roll, we're talking about list. BIG difference. 15 degree list, loss of the powerplant plus the vessel reported flooding. very, very, very bad. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:16:51 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? Roll, no. List yes, especially without power. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:17:51 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
bear in mind we're not talking about roll, we're talking about list. BIG difference. 15 degree list, loss of the powerplant plus the vessel reported flooding. very, very, very bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? The Interstate Highway system allows a 6% grade - three degrees - because any more than that is too steep an incline. Fifteen degrees is very bad. The Tower Of Pisa had to be restored when the lean angle was five and a half degrees. bear in mind we're not talking about roll, we're talking about list. BIG difference. 15 degree list, loss of the powerplant plus the vessel reported flooding. very, very, very bad. I wonder what the cause of the flooding is. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:19:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Built 1975? That's really old for a container ship, isn't it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Built 1975? That's really old for a container ship, isn't it? http://www.worldshipping.org/about-the-industry/liner-ships/container-ship-design
Container ships have an approximate lifespan of 26 years. No not really. US Merchant fleet has been driven into the ground. Yes there are younger vessels, but there are PLENTY that are much older. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:23:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder what the cause of the flooding is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? The Interstate Highway system allows a 6% grade - three degrees - because any more than that is too steep an incline. Fifteen degrees is very bad. The Tower Of Pisa had to be restored when the lean angle was five and a half degrees. bear in mind we're not talking about roll, we're talking about list. BIG difference. 15 degree list, loss of the powerplant plus the vessel reported flooding. very, very, very bad. I wonder what the cause of the flooding is. with RO-RO's the loading/unloading ramps are often the culprit. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:23:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If El Faro (the lighthouse) has been lost, I hope her crew is alive in the lifeboats. Aren't modern lifeboats equipped with some sort of transponder that will emit an emergency beacon? They should have EPIRBS in them. One of my old engineers went to SUNY Maritime with the El Faro's chief engineer. It's a small community, more so for the deep sea guys. It doesn't take to many degrees of separation to know of someone who knows someone on this ship. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:26:12 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They should have EPIRBS in them. One of my old engineers went to SUNY Maritime with the El Faro's chief engineer. It's a small community, more so for the deep sea guys. It doesn't take to many degrees of separation to know of someone who knows someone on this ship. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If El Faro (the lighthouse) has been lost, I hope her crew is alive in the lifeboats. Aren't modern lifeboats equipped with some sort of transponder that will emit an emergency beacon? They should have EPIRBS in them. One of my old engineers went to SUNY Maritime with the El Faro's chief engineer. It's a small community, more so for the deep sea guys. It doesn't take to many degrees of separation to know of someone who knows someone on this ship. yes lifeboats have EPIRB's in them. this ship had the old open style boats and old school gravity davits. they work except for the fact that someone has to stay on deck to work the davit to get the boat to the water. then climb down a jacobs ladder to the water and then board the lifeboat |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:27:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
bear in mind we're not talking about roll, we're talking about list. BIG difference. 15 degree list, loss of the powerplant plus the vessel reported flooding. very, very, very bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? The Interstate Highway system allows a 6% grade - three degrees - because any more than that is too steep an incline. Fifteen degrees is very bad. The Tower Of Pisa had to be restored when the lean angle was five and a half degrees. bear in mind we're not talking about roll, we're talking about list. BIG difference. 15 degree list, loss of the powerplant plus the vessel reported flooding. very, very, very bad. I know the difference. I wonder what the captain was thinking. They went straight into the worst part of the storm. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:27:54 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yes lifeboats have EPIRB's in them. this ship had the old open style boats and old school gravity davits. they work except for the fact that someone has to stay on deck to work the davit to get the boat to the water. then climb down a jacobs ladder to the water and then board the lifeboat Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If El Faro (the lighthouse) has been lost, I hope her crew is alive in the lifeboats. Aren't modern lifeboats equipped with some sort of transponder that will emit an emergency beacon? They should have EPIRBS in them. One of my old engineers went to SUNY Maritime with the El Faro's chief engineer. It's a small community, more so for the deep sea guys. It doesn't take to many degrees of separation to know of someone who knows someone on this ship. yes lifeboats have EPIRB's in them. this ship had the old open style boats and old school gravity davits. they work except for the fact that someone has to stay on deck to work the davit to get the boat to the water. then climb down a jacobs ladder to the water and then board the lifeboat That's what I thought too but I wasn't sure. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:28:27 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:28:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Tough time to be east of the Bahamas I'd imagine. Seas are flat come on our coast. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:29:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the difference. I wonder what the captain was thinking. They went straight into the worst part of the storm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is 15 degrees really that bad? The Interstate Highway system allows a 6% grade - three degrees - because any more than that is too steep an incline. Fifteen degrees is very bad. The Tower Of Pisa had to be restored when the lean angle was five and a half degrees. bear in mind we're not talking about roll, we're talking about list. BIG difference. 15 degree list, loss of the powerplant plus the vessel reported flooding. very, very, very bad. I know the difference. I wonder what the captain was thinking. They went straight into the worst part of the storm. while it's ultimately the captains call to leave port. corporate likes ships to move on schedule also this storm rapidly intensified. weathering a tropical storm as sea? not that big a deal. weathering a cat 4 hurricane at sea. totally different story. and at a certain point you can't turn tail and run anymore, you gotta just ride it out. |
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