[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Tank vs. Redwood Tree (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/25/2015 12:55:08 PM EDT
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Could this
completely penetrate this 
with one of these? 
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Quoted:
So the turret of an Abrams is usually stated as 900mm RHAe (Rolled Homogenous Armor equivalent). RHAe is a measure of how the armor of the vehicle (which includes depleted uranium) stacks up against traditional steel that was used for armor circa WWII. According to Wikipedia, SAE 4340 steel is similar to MIL-DTL-46177 RHA steel. 4340 has a density of 0.284 lb/in³. Redwood has a density of 27.22 lb/in³. So, 4340 steel is 95.8 times as dense as redwood. That means 900mm RHAe (about 35.4 inches) is (in terms of density) the equivalent of 282.61 feet of redwood. I can't seem to find any information on whether the Abrams main gun can penetrate the armor of another Abrams (I suppose there's a reason for that) but it can certainly penetrate the armor of a T-72, which is estimated at 500-600 RHAe. So, by that information (assuming there aren't other factors in play) the tank should be able to penetrate the redwood easily. If you see a flaw in my thinking, please, by all means, tear it to pieces. Wait a minute....You cant be bringing math and shit into a question like this. You've completed ruined it. RUINED IT! |
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Wait a minute....You cant be bringing math and shit into a question like this. You've completed ruined it. RUINED IT! Quoted:
Quoted:
So the turret of an Abrams is usually stated as 900mm RHAe (Rolled Homogenous Armor equivalent). RHAe is a measure of how the armor of the vehicle (which includes depleted uranium) stacks up against traditional steel that was used for armor circa WWII. According to Wikipedia, SAE 4340 steel is similar to MIL-DTL-46177 RHA steel. 4340 has a density of 0.284 lb/in³. Redwood has a density of 27.22 lb/in³. So, 4340 steel is 95.8 times as dense as redwood. That means 900mm RHAe (about 35.4 inches) is (in terms of density) the equivalent of 282.61 feet of redwood. I can't seem to find any information on whether the Abrams main gun can penetrate the armor of another Abrams (I suppose there's a reason for that) but it can certainly penetrate the armor of a T-72, which is estimated at 500-600 RHAe. So, by that information (assuming there aren't other factors in play) the tank should be able to penetrate the redwood easily. If you see a flaw in my thinking, please, by all means, tear it to pieces. Wait a minute....You cant be bringing math and shit into a question like this. You've completed ruined it. RUINED IT! I suck. 
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You have a week to wait for it to fully burn? And a lot of extra gas? Quoted:
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Wouldn't a couple of Molotovs bring the tree down quicker? You have a week to wait for it to fully burn? And a lot of extra gas? Lot longer than that, there is a story out there one that got struck by lightning that burned for years. |
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Quoted:
So the turret of an Abrams is usually stated as 900mm RHAe (Rolled Homogenous Armor equivalent). RHAe is a measure of how the armor of the vehicle (which includes depleted uranium) stacks up against traditional steel that was used for armor circa WWII. According to Wikipedia, SAE 4340 steel is similar to MIL-DTL-46177 RHA steel. 4340 has a density of 0.284 lb/in³. Redwood has a density of 27.22 lb/in³. So, 4340 steel is 95.8 times as dense as redwood. That means 900mm RHAe (about 35.4 inches) is (in terms of density) the equivalent of 282.61 feet of redwood. I can't seem to find any information on whether the Abrams main gun can penetrate the armor of another Abrams (I suppose there's a reason for that) but it can certainly penetrate the armor of a T-72, which is estimated at 500-600 RHAe. So, by that information (assuming there aren't other factors in play) the tank should be able to penetrate the redwood easily. If you see a flaw in my thinking, please, by all means, tear it to pieces. The numbers you used indicate that redwood is almost 100x denser than the steel. Units matter. |
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Quoted:
So the turret of an Abrams is usually stated as 900mm RHAe (Rolled Homogenous Armor equivalent). RHAe is a measure of how the armor of the vehicle (which includes depleted uranium) stacks up against traditional steel that was used for armor circa WWII. According to Wikipedia, SAE 4340 steel is similar to MIL-DTL-46177 RHA steel. 4340 has a density of 0.284 lb/in³. Redwood has a density of 27.22 lb/in³. So, 4340 steel is 95.8 times as dense as redwood. That means 900mm RHAe (about 35.4 inches) is (in terms of density) the equivalent of 282.61 feet of redwood. I can't seem to find any information on whether the Abrams main gun can penetrate the armor of another Abrams (I suppose there's a reason for that) but it can certainly penetrate the armor of a T-72, which is estimated at 500-600 RHAe. So, by that information (assuming there aren't other factors in play) the tank should be able to penetrate the redwood easily. If you see a flaw in my thinking, please, by all means, tear it to pieces. Did you transpose some numbers or mislabel units? If 4340 has a density of 0.284 pounds per cubic inch, and redwood has a density of 27.22 pounds per cubic inch, the redwood is far denser, not the steel... |
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Lot longer than that, there is a story out there one that got struck by lightning that burned for years. Quoted:
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Wouldn't a couple of Molotovs bring the tree down quicker? You have a week to wait for it to fully burn? And a lot of extra gas? Lot longer than that, there is a story out there one that got struck by lightning that burned for years. Got a link to that story? |
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Did you transpose some numbers or mislabel units? If 4340 has a density of 0.284 pounds per cubic inch, and redwood has a density of 27.22 pounds per cubic inch, the redwood is far denser, not the steel... Quoted:
Quoted:
So the turret of an Abrams is usually stated as 900mm RHAe (Rolled Homogenous Armor equivalent). RHAe is a measure of how the armor of the vehicle (which includes depleted uranium) stacks up against traditional steel that was used for armor circa WWII. According to Wikipedia, SAE 4340 steel is similar to MIL-DTL-46177 RHA steel. 4340 has a density of 0.284 lb/in³. Redwood has a density of 27.22 lb/in³. So, 4340 steel is 95.8 times as dense as redwood. That means 900mm RHAe (about 35.4 inches) is (in terms of density) the equivalent of 282.61 feet of redwood. I can't seem to find any information on whether the Abrams main gun can penetrate the armor of another Abrams (I suppose there's a reason for that) but it can certainly penetrate the armor of a T-72, which is estimated at 500-600 RHAe. So, by that information (assuming there aren't other factors in play) the tank should be able to penetrate the redwood easily. If you see a flaw in my thinking, please, by all means, tear it to pieces. Did you transpose some numbers or mislabel units? If 4340 has a density of 0.284 pounds per cubic inch, and redwood has a density of 27.22 pounds per cubic inch, the redwood is far denser, not the steel... Meh. Cubic inches, cubic feet...close enough. |
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Could this https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRRfKY044rRzke1PR-BkqF05sfIQ4OprzEI5ligTvpX4Sh-UCWy completely penetrate this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/General_Sherman_2426497682.jpg/640px-General_Sherman_2426497682.jpg with one of these? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/120mm_M829A2_APFSDS-T.jpg Given the use of a sabot round I would bet money it could if it wasn't far away. |
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Quoted:
So the turret of an Abrams is usually stated as 900mm RHAe (Rolled Homogenous Armor equivalent). RHAe is a measure of how the armor of the vehicle (which includes depleted uranium) stacks up against traditional steel that was used for armor circa WWII. According to Wikipedia, SAE 4340 steel is similar to MIL-DTL-46177 RHA steel. 4340 has a density of 0.284 27.22 lb/in³. Redwood has a density of 27.22 0.284 lb/in³. So, 4340 steel is 95.8 times as dense as redwood. That means 900mm RHAe (about 35.4 inches) is (in terms of density) the equivalent of 282.61 feet of redwood. I can't seem to find any information on whether the Abrams main gun can penetrate the armor of another Abrams (I suppose there's a reason for that) but it can certainly penetrate the armor of a T-72, which is estimated at 500-600 RHAe. So, by that information (assuming there aren't other factors in play) the tank should be able to penetrate the redwood easily. If you see a flaw in my thinking, please, by all means, tear it to pieces. |
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Meh. Cubic inches, cubic feet...close enough. Quoted:
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Quoted:
So the turret of an Abrams is usually stated as 900mm RHAe (Rolled Homogenous Armor equivalent). RHAe is a measure of how the armor of the vehicle (which includes depleted uranium) stacks up against traditional steel that was used for armor circa WWII. According to Wikipedia, SAE 4340 steel is similar to MIL-DTL-46177 RHA steel. 4340 has a density of 0.284 lb/in³. Redwood has a density of 27.22 lb/in³. So, 4340 steel is 95.8 times as dense as redwood. That means 900mm RHAe (about 35.4 inches) is (in terms of density) the equivalent of 282.61 feet of redwood. I can't seem to find any information on whether the Abrams main gun can penetrate the armor of another Abrams (I suppose there's a reason for that) but it can certainly penetrate the armor of a T-72, which is estimated at 500-600 RHAe. So, by that information (assuming there aren't other factors in play) the tank should be able to penetrate the redwood easily. If you see a flaw in my thinking, please, by all means, tear it to pieces. Did you transpose some numbers or mislabel units? If 4340 has a density of 0.284 pounds per cubic inch, and redwood has a density of 27.22 pounds per cubic inch, the redwood is far denser, not the steel... Meh. Cubic inches, cubic feet...close enough. Yeah I got that wrong somewhere. The redwood has a density of 27.22 pounds per cubic FOOT, not inch. The steel has a density of 490.75 pounds per cubic foot. That's 18 times the density of redwood. That means the turret armor of the Abrams (based solely on density) would be equivalent to 53.1 feet of redwood. The thickest armor of the T-72 (which we know the Abrams can penetrate) would be 29.4 feet to 35.4 feet. So, since it can penetrate the T-72, it should still penetrate the redwood, although nowhere near as easily as I thought it would based on my bad math earlier. |
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Yeah I got that wrong somewhere. The redwood has a density of 27.22 pounds per cubic FOOT, not inch. The steel has a density of 490.75 pounds per cubic foot. That's 18 times the density of redwood. That means the turret armor of the Abrams (based solely on density) would be equivalent to 53.1 feet of redwood. The thickest armor of the T-72 (which we know the Abrams can penetrate) would be 29.4 feet to 35.4 feet. So, since it can penetrate the T-72, it should still penetrate the redwood, although nowhere near as easily as I thought it would based on my bad math earlier. Quoted:
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Quoted:
So the turret of an Abrams is usually stated as 900mm RHAe (Rolled Homogenous Armor equivalent). RHAe is a measure of how the armor of the vehicle (which includes depleted uranium) stacks up against traditional steel that was used for armor circa WWII. According to Wikipedia, SAE 4340 steel is similar to MIL-DTL-46177 RHA steel. 4340 has a density of 0.284 lb/in³. Redwood has a density of 27.22 lb/in³. So, 4340 steel is 95.8 times as dense as redwood. That means 900mm RHAe (about 35.4 inches) is (in terms of density) the equivalent of 282.61 feet of redwood. I can't seem to find any information on whether the Abrams main gun can penetrate the armor of another Abrams (I suppose there's a reason for that) but it can certainly penetrate the armor of a T-72, which is estimated at 500-600 RHAe. So, by that information (assuming there aren't other factors in play) the tank should be able to penetrate the redwood easily. If you see a flaw in my thinking, please, by all means, tear it to pieces. Did you transpose some numbers or mislabel units? If 4340 has a density of 0.284 pounds per cubic inch, and redwood has a density of 27.22 pounds per cubic inch, the redwood is far denser, not the steel... Meh. Cubic inches, cubic feet...close enough. Yeah I got that wrong somewhere. The redwood has a density of 27.22 pounds per cubic FOOT, not inch. The steel has a density of 490.75 pounds per cubic foot. That's 18 times the density of redwood. That means the turret armor of the Abrams (based solely on density) would be equivalent to 53.1 feet of redwood. The thickest armor of the T-72 (which we know the Abrams can penetrate) would be 29.4 feet to 35.4 feet. So, since it can penetrate the T-72, it should still penetrate the redwood, although nowhere near as easily as I thought it would based on my bad math earlier. Not only that, but the mechanism the sabot round uses to penetrate may not be as effective in wood of that thickness. The wood may may absorb the energy of the molten metal instead of being burned by it to some extent. Heck, the sabot round might not even melt when it hit's the wood, that would put you into completely uncharted territory. |
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I don't think it is as clear cut as people seem to think.
If you work with wood a lot, you know that softwoods ted to dull tools a lot faster than hard woods. Same thing with green sappy woods vs dry wood. Yes, DU is ablative, but I think it will shed mass pretty quickly. When it hits steel, it makes the steel ripple, and/or punches a section of armor out. I don't think that wood will react like that. I think the rod will make a temp cavity, then the sappy sticky wood will spring back and grab the rod like, uhm, use your imagination.  Living wood is quite different than lumber. I know a 7" loblolly pine will stop a M2 AP just fine. take 12" of cured pine, and it will go right through.
The other thing to consider is that a redwood has composite armor.
The bark is feet thick, then you have the cambium layer, the sapwood, then the heartwood. Something tells me that the penetrating rod will end up going sideways as it passes through the different density layers. |