[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Any small engines experts in here? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/22/2015 2:03:17 PM EDT
My gas power washer was working yesterday no problems. Used it today for about five minutes and it just randomly turned off by itself. Tried to start it again and the cord is extremely hard to pull back and basically no slack. I checked and made sure to relieve some pressure in the line but the cord is still incredibly hard to pull back. At one point while trying I did get a good easy pull but the thing backfired loudly and blew a flame out of the exhaust. Checked to make sure there was plenty of gas in it. I'm at the point of changing the oil because I am pretty sure its never been changed in close to 10 years.
I drained the oil by unscrewing the gray plug circled on the left. Am I supposed to fill it back up through the black plug on the right? Both plugs say OIL on them. I can't seem to get a funnel in there to fill it up. 
However the manual I found online says here is where you fill it and drain it. The top red is to fill, the bottom black is to drain. But I can't even fit a 1" wrench to take the plugs off here? 
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You can use either plug on the engine itself. They put two plugs in so you can access them for different applications. Eg-- you may not be able to reach one plug on a roto-tiller application or the other on a power washer. It's for convienience.
The plugs on the pump itself are for the pump unit, not the engine. Sounds like the engine may have "hydrauliced" or "hydro-locked" on fuel. When this happens, the cylinder fills with fuel and as we all know, you can't compress a liquid making it very hard to turn over. When it did fire, the excess fuel exploded inside the muffler. Pull the spark plug and carefully and slowly pull the starter cord and see if any fuel comes out. Did the motor oil smell like fuel? Was it "watery" and thin like it had gas in it? ETA -- The little circular "window" on the end of the pump is a sight window for oil level. Fill the pump unit until oil is at the little red dot in the center of the window. |
| The first 2 plugs you circled should be for the crankcase oil ie the engine. Unless I'm mistaken, the red plug you circled should be for the pump unit and the engine and pump shouldn't be sharing oil. Changing the oil while good, is not going to fix that. Sounds like you may have hydro-locked/flooded it. Remove the spark plug and see if the electrode is wet. Let it sit for 20-30 minutes with the spark plug out. As far as changing the oil, it will be a lot easier if you remove the unit from the cart unless there is a drain plug underneath. |
| Sounds like the engine may have locked up on you. It may be that the carb float stuck open allowing gas to get into the crackcase thus making to much pressure to pull the recoil. Drain the engine oil, not the pump oil and see if the engine oil is thin or smells like gas. That is a good pressure washer with good components. I hardly dougbt that Honda 5.5 just blew up, those things are very durable. |
How small are you talking?
ETA: I have a Montgomery Ward tiller that my parents bought when I was born. It's never had the oil changed and still runs just fine with the original plug. Not saying that's a good maintenance practice, but it's an interesting example. I've had to replace drive belts, rusted out mufflers, gas tanks, and throttle cables, but the engine itself is chugging along just the same as it did when I was a kid. Pull your plugs, check for flooding. Dry the plugs, check for consistent spark. Don't confuse crankcase oil with pump oil. They should be separate systems and will need separate attention. |
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It's a Honda GX engine.
Did you tip it ofer? coz when that happened oil gets into the cylinder and hyrdraulics the piston. Talke the spark plug out and pull it over.....but stand out of the way of the spark plug hole 
ETA re-reading, the air filter could be clogged with oil causing the backfire. Take the filter off and see what happens |
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Alright I managed to get the oil out of the pump. I am going to grab some straight 30w oil and refill it (did it before I got back to read this thread). How much oil goes into the black plug I circled? Is that the engine oil? Guessing 30w for that too?
I will pull the plug after and see what that is like. |
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My gas power washer was working yesterday no problems. Used it today for about five minutes and it just randomly turned off by itself. Tried to start it again and the cord is extremely hard to pull back and basically no slack. I checked and made sure to relieve some pressure in the line but the cord is still incredibly hard to pull back. At one point while trying I did get a good easy pull but the thing backfired loudly and blew a flame out of the exhaust. Checked to make sure there was plenty of gas in it. I'm at the point of changing the oil because I am pretty sure its never been changed in close to 10 years. http://s16.postimg.org/ti3ms23ol/0422151356.jpg I drained the oil by unscrewing the gray plug circled on the left. Am I supposed to fill it back up through the black plug on the right? Both plugs say OIL on them. I can't seem to get a funnel in there to fill it up. http://s29.postimg.org/9sl7nbguf/0422151357.jpg However the manual I found online says here is where you fill it and drain it. The top red is to fill, the bottom black is to drain. But I can't even fit a 1" wrench to take the plugs off here? http://s29.postimg.org/e0fzw2i9z/0422151357a.jpg That filler is for the washer pump, not the engine. Fill it through either, but the grey one has a dipstick on it |
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Alright I managed to get the oil out of the pump. I am going to grab some straight 30w oil and refill it (did it before I got back to read this thread). How much oil goes into the black plug I circled? Is that the engine oil? Guessing 30w for that too? I will pull the plug after and see what that is like. Put it in until it comes back out |
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And looking at your pics, it looks like you have it at full choke atm. Should only be choked for 1-2 pulls on initial start-up. Most of the Honda 6.5s I work on start in one pull fully choked, not sure if you were trying to run it that way or not. Good spot |
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Pull the spark plug.
Turn engine over. If it is still binding, the pump shit the bed, or the motor is toast. If it turns easy, rebuild the carb, as the float needle/seat took a shit. The Local Small engine shop should be able to hook you up for like 90 bucks, or sell you a carb kit for 20. Pumps and motors are not worth rebuilding on consumer models. Yours appears to be a piston pump and GX motor...so it may very well be worth rebuilding if it is smoked. The first pics show the engine oil fill and drain. Open one, turn the whole thing on it's side and dump out the old oil. Turn back upright, and refill until overflowing. Done. The second pics show the Pump oil window, fill and drain. It's low on oil. Not good. Check the owners manual, drain and refill with Manufacturer recommended oil. I'm hoping you have a bad float needle/seat or gunk in the carb keeping it from seating, and causing it to flood/Hydraulic lock. Good luck!! |
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The pump calls for 30w oil. I can't find the weight for engine anywhere. What say ye hive? Hit a small engine shop, Tractor supply, or real hardware. Straight 30wt. is common. Just not at Box stores in your area apparently. Honda GX series run on 5w-30 and 10w-30 just fine. Ours even run on 15W40 for prolonged use. They aren't fussy. |
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Here is the plug. I think this was installed new last season. http://s23.postimg.org/c2mey3t63/0422151435a.jpg Does the motor turn over easier with the plug out? The 6.5 also has a decomp IIRC...I havn't fussed with ours in a couple years. That may also be the culprit. |
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The pump calls for 30w oil. I can't find the weight for engine anywhere. What say ye hive? 10W-30 for a Honda GX most likely - http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/engines/pdf/manuals/31ZH7600.pdf |
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Could have sheered the woodruf key and out of time causing it to backfire.
Like many others have said, pull the spark plug and turn it over see if any oil and / or fuel comes out. Pump could have locked up and sheered the key. Remove pump and turn engine over. Results? Try turning removed pump shaft by hand. Is there water in the pump oil? |
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The pump calls for 30w oil. I can't find the weight for engine anywhere. What say ye hive? Use whatever motor oil you have around. 5w20 10w30. Dont use 30w. If no dipstick, fill engine oil to bottom of threads on the plug. Pump oil should have a sight glass maybe. If not then about half full. eta- I see it does have a sight glass.So yea do that. ETA2 Oil in pump looks gray. Water in there? Bad pump seals? |
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Alright so all oils changed to appropriateness. The first two pulls were nice and perfect. Machine didn't start and got one backfire. Now the cord is hard to pull again.
Yanked the spark plug out and the cord is easy to pull. What should I do next? Local shop won't fix or touch the pump since there are so many "variations" of them. They will service the engine though. No idea what to do. |
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How does one do that? When I was slowly pulling the cord with the plug out I didn't see any gas/oil coming out of the hole. Quoted:
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Hydro locking ? Check to see if gas is pouring into the intake, could be the float is stuck open.
How does one do that? When I was slowly pulling the cord with the plug out I didn't see any gas/oil coming out of the hole. So it's not that then. Have you tried removing the air filter? Seriously, there's some good advice here, go and try some of the ideas so we can move on |
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Quoted: Alright so all oils changed to appropriateness. The first two pulls were nice and perfect. Machine didn't start and got one backfire. Now the cord is hard to pull again. Yanked the spark plug out and the cord is easy to pull. What should I do next? Local shop won't fix or touch the pump since there are so many "variations" of them. They will service the engine though. No idea what to do. 1. Turn the choke completely off 2. Remove the spark plug 3. Pull the engine through at least 10 times 4. Dry the spark plug gap with a rag 5. Replace spark plug 6. Remove air filter 7. Squeeze the trigger on the washer wand to release pressure from the pump 8. Try to start the motor while watching the throat of the carb for signs of excess gas. I shouldn't need to say this, but keep your face away from the carb while doing this... Try this and report back with what happens. |
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It really does sound like it's flooded. Here's what I would do: 1. Turn the choke completely off 2. Remove the spark plug 3. Pull the engine through at least 10 times 4. Dry the spark plug gap with a rag 5. Replace spark plug 6. Remove air filter 7. Squeeze the trigger on the washer wand to release pressure from the pump 8. Try to start the motor while watching the throat of the carb for signs of excess gas. I shouldn't need to say this, but keep your face away from the carb while doing this...
Try this and report back with what happens. Quoted:
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Alright so all oils changed to appropriateness. The first two pulls were nice and perfect. Machine didn't start and got one backfire. Now the cord is hard to pull again. Yanked the spark plug out and the cord is easy to pull. What should I do next? Local shop won't fix or touch the pump since there are so many "variations" of them. They will service the engine though. No idea what to do. 1. Turn the choke completely off 2. Remove the spark plug 3. Pull the engine through at least 10 times 4. Dry the spark plug gap with a rag 5. Replace spark plug 6. Remove air filter 7. Squeeze the trigger on the washer wand to release pressure from the pump 8. Try to start the motor while watching the throat of the carb for signs of excess gas. I shouldn't need to say this, but keep your face away from the carb while doing this...
Try this and report back with what happens. Cool will do. Just for note I did try removing the air filter and still the same issue. The first few rips the cord is fine then binds up. I will try this out a bit later. Quoted:
Please tell me you let the pressure off of the wand..... Reading is fundamental 
I checked and made sure to relieve some pressure in the line |
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Quoted: Cool will do. Just for note I did try removing the air filter and still the same issue. The first few rips the cord is fine then binds up. I will try this out a bit later. Reading is fundamental Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Alright so all oils changed to appropriateness. The first two pulls were nice and perfect. Machine didn't start and got one backfire. Now the cord is hard to pull again. Yanked the spark plug out and the cord is easy to pull. What should I do next? Local shop won't fix or touch the pump since there are so many "variations" of them. They will service the engine though. No idea what to do. 1. Turn the choke completely off 2. Remove the spark plug 3. Pull the engine through at least 10 times 4. Dry the spark plug gap with a rag 5. Replace spark plug 6. Remove air filter 7. Squeeze the trigger on the washer wand to release pressure from the pump 8. Try to start the motor while watching the throat of the carb for signs of excess gas. I shouldn't need to say this, but keep your face away from the carb while doing this... Try this and report back with what happens. Cool will do. Just for note I did try removing the air filter and still the same issue. The first few rips the cord is fine then binds up. I will try this out a bit later. Quoted: Please tell me you let the pressure off of the wand..... Reading is fundamental I checked and made sure to relieve some pressure in the line |
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Just had this same problem on my Ridgid gas-powered pressure washer...turns out the pump was siezed. I'm at work so can't see your pics (work server blocks image-hosting sites). But if it's a horizontal pump, it's likely the older sealed units that can't be repaired & must be replaced. I checked on my pressure washer, and turns out that it uses a fairly common horizontal pump unit that is known to sieze up after sitting too long...minerals in water buildup inside & pump siezes, requiring replacement. When I called my parts guy, he already knew the part # without me having to describe anything other than "gas-powered pressure washer." You can look up your pressure washer model number in an Interwebz search; then look up online parts diagrams for a part #. If the part number is 309515001, this has been replaced by a more reliable unit 309515003 and is usually in stock at most parts houses. I always like to try to tinker with old parts to see if I can get them working again, but from what I am told this pump has a factory pressed-in seal that will be destroyed if you try to remove it, and none of the internal parts can be obtained/purchased individually anyway. HTH. |
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My gas power washer was working yesterday no problems. Used it today for about five minutes and it just randomly turned off by itself. Tried to start it again and the cord is extremely hard to pull back and basically no slack. I checked and made sure to relieve some pressure in the line but the cord is still incredibly hard to pull back. At one point while trying I did get a good easy pull but the thing backfired loudly and blew a flame out of the exhaust. Checked to make sure there was plenty of gas in it. I'm at the point of changing the oil because I am pretty sure its never been changed in close to 10 years. http://s16.postimg.org/ti3ms23ol/0422151356.jpg I drained the oil by unscrewing the gray plug circled on the left. Am I supposed to fill it back up through the black plug on the right? Both plugs say OIL on them. I can't seem to get a funnel in there to fill it up. http://s29.postimg.org/9sl7nbguf/0422151357.jpg However the manual I found online says here is where you fill it and drain it. The top red is to fill, the bottom black is to drain. But I can't even fit a 1" wrench to take the plugs off here? http://s29.postimg.org/e0fzw2i9z/0422151357a.jpg since you seem big on preventative/routine maintenance  and also live in MA, one question: did the the pressure washer stay outside over the winter, say in a shed?
if so, did you run antifreeze through the pump? ps you are looking at two different oil fills/drains above -- one for the engine, and one for the triplex pressure pump. don't confuse things. the top RED fill/bottom BLACK drain is for the triplex pump. if that doesn't have oil in it the pump is done, over and done. what you have there is a premium CAT triplex pump attached to a premium Honda engine; taken care of properly you should get 20 years of homeowner service out of them. my guess by the way is that your compression release on the engine may be hosed up, or something is broken in the triplex pump. what you will need to do is disconnect the pump from the engine, and diagnose by splitting up the problem. if the engine starts easily without the pump attached, you know where you are at. ar-jedi |
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This may have ran for 10 or 15 mins not connected to a water supply. But it was working fine after that for a half hour. Just today it randomly shut off. Do I need to drain the oil in the pump or engine again if I take the pump off? Never run a pressure washer without a water supply. The pump should unbolt from the engine without leaking any oil. I think you should get some hands on help working on it. |
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Never run a pressure washer without a water supply. The pump should unbolt from the engine without leaking any oil. I think you should get some hands on help working on it. Quoted:
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This may have ran for 10 or 15 mins not connected to a water supply. But it was working fine after that for a half hour. Just today it randomly shut off. Do I need to drain the oil in the pump or engine again if I take the pump off? Never run a pressure washer without a water supply. The pump should unbolt from the engine without leaking any oil. I think you should get some hands on help working on it. Ahhh what's the worst that can happen
Going to take it off a bit later. |
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Pumps off the unit completely. Haven't opened up the pump itself to look inside yet though. Should I be able to start this thing without the pump? yes, of course. see if it starts and runs OK. if so, that's telling you the triplex pump is locking up and you will have to get the triplex pump repaired or replaced. those CAT brand commercial-duty triplex pumps are not cheap, so i would see if it can be repaired/rebuilt first. ps if you don't know what you are doing, don't take the pump apart. a high pressure, high volume ceramic plunger triplex pump is built like a swiss watch. ar-jedi |
