Posted: 3/5/2003 11:17:38 PM EDT
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Australia. Qualifying Friday at 7pm pst and race Sat. at 6:30pm pst. Ah, after Malaysia back to waking up at four in the morning to catch the races live. Sad thing is they just removed the last of the great race tracks, Spa, Belgium. Monoco is interesting but leads to boring races, Suzuka is a good track, but too much of a test type track. Malaysia makes for great races, but is too modern. Spa was a great, long track full of elevation changes and trees. I'll miss it. Especially since they destroyed the only other great high speed track, Hockenheim. Oh well, hopefully the racing will be a bit more balanced this year. Go Ralf. |
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Hey Ratter, Don't tell me about the Formula 1! The track is actually the road we use to get to work! We now fight the other 3 million commuters to get around it. Nah! I love formula 1! I will hear the engine roar from home as well as watch it on TV. I would go but I saw the Indy Cars on the Gold Coast, Australia and it is better on TV ... you see more. |
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Like most things, it is better seen on TV. But the sound is wonderful. Went to see a race in France a few years back, the sound was very impressive. I can imagine that it is pretty disruptive having one on your hometown streets though. Speaking of yawn and limp wristed, let's see: Standing starts, not the wimpy rolling start, run in the rain, where the nascar guys are too scared, actual use of brakes and shifting, turning right, best drivers in the world (WRC very close), pinnacle of technology, turning 19,000 revs, not 40 year old pushrod tech. Yeah, nascar rules. [rolleyes] As far as Ferrari always winning, that was not the case for a very long time. Mostly it is Schumacher who made the difference for them. The past few years have been actually very competetive speed wise, just the Ferrari's have been more reliable. Should be an interesting year this year. |
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Quoted: Say, when does Formula 2 start? Well, Formula 2 doesn't exist anymore, but was replaced by Formula 3000 in 1985. Here is the schedule: [url]www.formula-3000.net/schedule_2003.php[/url] Here is a photo of a McLaren Formula 2 car: [img]www.bruce-mclaren.com/images/M4BRM.jpg[/img] |
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F1's only "problem" is that they insist on each team building its own chassies. That has become too expensive. If you screw up, you are done for a whole season at least. That is really what has happened with McLaren the last couple of years, and they are one of the best funded teams out there. Yet even they cant afford to junk a entire batch of cars and start over from scratch. Think of what this means to someone like Minardi or Arrows when they get it wrong. If they let teams buy chassies from each other it would both prop up the back of the grid and let the big teams counter rising costs through vheicle sales. |
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Don't get yer panties in a bunch. It's okay that NASCAR is more popular than F1. It is also okay that NASCAR is growing at a rediculous rate and that F1 has seen stagnant growth. As far a NASCAR being a redneck sport, I'm not even white. None of my friends who watch NASCAR are rednecks because half of them are not white. I will not argue that the technology in NASCAR in obsolete and that stock cars are anything but stock. However, when it comes to RACING, you will not find a higher quality of racing on the planet than in Winston Cup racing. Yes, WRC drivers are awsome. F1 has a great deal of talent. But it is a terrible sport to watch. I was in Monaco in 1996 and was at turn 4 (?) and I couldn't tell what the hell was going on. F1 and WRC are terrible spectator sports because you can't tell what the hell is going on with the rest of the race track. In NASCAR, even if you have crappy seats, you can at least tell whats happening on half the track. If you have good seats, you can see the entire race and see every battle. As far as turning both ways, right turns are over rated. The more turns there are, the fewer the passing opportunities. A slower car can make itself pretty damn near impossible to pass when there are 14 turns in a course. Try blocking when you are going in 4 wide at Atlanta. You can't do it. If you check up high, you'll get beat on the low line. If you block low, you'll get taken on the outside. In NASCAR, there will always be a high, low and mid line. Cars can make contact with eachother without disintegrating into a million peices, which makes battles all the more interesting. There is more passing in a single race at NASCAR than in the entire F1 season (okay, slight exageration, but you get the point). The rules of F1 stack the decks against the racer. For example, on a caution the entire course goes yellow at the drop of the yellow rather than letting lapped cars race to the start/finish. This handicapps lapped cars. Last week, Ryan Newman was able to come back from 2 laps down to finish in the top ten. you can't tell me that that wasn't exciting. I just checked the betting lines on the first F1 race this season. Schumacher the favorite at 1.66 to 1. 1.66 to 1???? Thats practically a lock!! The second favorite is Barrichello at 4.33 to 1. Hmmm... Wait a minute. Those are both Ferrari guys!!! The very same guys who won last year and the year before? Ferrari is a 1.1 to 1 favorite to win it all again this year. Again, thats a lock. The bottom 2/3 of the field is a 101 to 1 shot at best with the last two at 501 to 1 to win in Austrailia. Winston Cup this week looks something like this. The top 15 racers are within 10 points of eachother with the favorite at 8 to 1. Second and third favorite are 9 to 1. F1 compared to Winston Cup is hardly competative racing. Ferrari is a shoo in for the championship as it has been in recent memory. The technology that drives F1 is also hurting its ability to attract spectators and viewers. I don't care how wonderful the technology is or how talented the drivers are if the racing isn't competative. That is afterall why we watch: to see competition. Pairity is what has made NASCAR and the NFL so successful. The lack of pairity is what is killing the NBA, MLB and is hurting F1. I can't watch it because there isn't anything to watch. It is practically a parade with the occasional pass. The battles are not nearly as interesting as with stock cars because the battles are primarily between two cars. Very seldom will you be able to see four different cars in a battle for the same position on the final lap like at Las Vegas last week. Lets see your F1 do that. Now that all the mfgs. in NASCAR have to go off the same template, it further ensures that the racing will be purely driver against driver which is what makes it so interesting and exciting to watch. Again, the technological dominance of F1 is undisputed. However, if you took Micheal Schumacher and put him in a winston cup car and put Jeff Gordon into a F1 car, neither would strive. F1 racers have tried in the past to cross over to NASCAR and were met with limited success. The talent is equal. The quality of the racing in F1 is terrible. There has to be some form of control to insure that the race isn't as lopsided as it is. The reason that I will no longer watch F1 is the same reason I wouldn't watch that terrible "Man vs. Beast" monstrosity of a TV show. There is no contest and it is boring. Again, NASCAR rules. Flame away. [flame][flame]flame][flame][flame][flame]flame][flame][flame][flame]flame][flame][flame[flame]flame][flame] edited for flame |
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I'm there, love F1, although expect from the off season news, that again this year, it will Micheal Schumacher/Ferrari Show. Ditto, Campy, ther are no limp wristed drivers in F1. Hoping that Barichello, Coulthard and Montoya can give "the man" a run for his money this year. Speed Channel rocks..... Mike |
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I hope Ferrari doesn't screw Barichello again this year and actually let him and MS race. It's comical when you look at the amount of mechanical failures RB has compared to Michael. He is the #2 guy, but come on. There was a nice little game last year on one of the F-1 websites, "Guess which way Ferrari will screw Reubens this week." McClaren should be more competitive this year. |
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Quoted: I don't care how wonderful the technology is or how talented the drivers are if the racing isn't competative. That is afterall why we watch: to see competition. Pairity is what has made NASCAR and the NFL so successful. The lack of pairity is what is killing the NBA, MLB and is hurting F1. I can't watch it because there isn't anything to watch. It is practically a parade with the occasional pass. The battles are not nearly as interesting as with stock cars because the battles are primarily between two cars. Very seldom will you be able to see four different cars in a battle for the same position on the final lap like at Las Vegas last week. Lets see your F1 do that. Now that all the mfgs. in NASCAR have to go off the same template, it further ensures that the racing will be purely driver against driver which is what makes it so interesting and exciting to watch. edited for flame Although I'm a car entusiast, I'm not a huge fan of most motorsports. Here are example of why: 1) F1, like you said, is not competitive enough to be interesting to watch. 2) Winston Cup uses waaaaaaaaay to many unnecessary rules to FORCE competition. Is Ford winning too much? Take away spoiler on the short tracks and add spoiler on the superspeedways. Is the field too open this early in the race? Bring out the yellow because of "debris" on the track. That will close up the field nicely for more "competitive" racing. Cars going too fast on superspeedways? Add a restrictor plate between the intake manifold and carb to drop engine output by 300 hp. By the way, how is it possible for cars to go too fast during a race? Safety you say? This is auto racing. If you want safety, go play table tennis. Bill Elliot will always hold the record for fastest lap speed (IIRC, 212.xxx at Talledega, 1989) because the NASCAR weenies want to make sure everyone "plays safe". What use is such heavily controlled auto racing? It reminds me of professional wrestling. Obviously not to the same extent, but still fake competition. |
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Finally! Real race cars on real race tracks. With the cut back on electronics in F1 this year, Michael is a given for the Championship, he already was the best before the electronics, which was why Ferrari pays him $50+ mil a year!! The reason F1/CART/WRX doesn't catch on in the US, is the MATH!!! Why try to figure out what's happening, when you can just watch the NASCAR/IRL "spec racers" drive around in formation until someone starts the big demolishion derby, crash and burn, pyrotechnics display!!![rolleyes] "Who won? Who cares!... did you see that crash! it was sooo kewl!!" |
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What are the rule changes that will make F1 more competative? I don't follow it closely enough to know what is going on in F1. I stopped following it in 1999 after I went to Fontana CA and saw a Winston Cup race. After that is was "F what?". I used to think that NASCAR was a redneck sport until I watched a race. Restrictor plates on super speedways are a necessary evil. When you have upwards of 800 hp, the cars will easily go 300 mph unrestricted. Wrecking at 300 mph can't kill you any deader. I'm no physics expert, but I do know that force grows exponentially when speeds get that high. As far as cautions for debris on the track, that happened on the last race last season, when Tony Stewart was in danger of loosing the points championship to Mark Martin. However, there was a fuel catch can on turn 2 along with the fuel. That was a legitimate caution. But I agree that NASCAR isn't perfect, but it is close. The rules do need some changing. F1 needs more help than NASCAR. An analagy that I would draw would be NASCAR vs. F1 is like the NFL vs. MLB. In the NFL, there is an hour of action in a two hour time span. In Baseball, there is 5 minutes of action crammed into three hours, only you already know at the start who the winner will be. When I was at Fontana, I had good seats so I could watch multiple battles for position because I was able to see the entire race track. At Monaco, I only was able to see about 2-300 yards of track. The entire race, I saw only a handful of passes. Granted, watching the cars go by at blinding speeds, and feeling the "WHOOOSH" as they flew by was entertaining but passing is what racing is all about. Otherwise, we would all watch qualifying for fun. The rules that restrict stock cars are what make the sport so interesting and competative. In the above posts, you will see at least three people who admited that Schumacher/Barrichello will dominate this year. Nobody who knows anything about F1 will disagree. I used to watch F1, but after seeing the light, I will never go back. By the way, the whole "panty waisted, limp wristed fags" comment was just to get ya riled up. As I have posted before, there is a great deal of talent in all forms of racing. That includes F1 guys. I have yet to see a WRC race. The problem with WRC is that coverage is limited by the track setup. Again, NASCAR rules. It is the most driver/mfg/competative, spectator friendly, accessable form of racing in the world. edited for clairity |
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Quoted: Restrictor plates on super speedways are a necessary evil. When you have upwards of 800 hp, the cars will easily go 300 mph unrestricted. No flames intended here: It is my understanding that Winston Cup engines with no restictor plate make ~750 hp at the flywheel, not 800+. With this level of power, these cars won't come close to 300 mph. Even at Talladega (the fastest track), they would only peak out at maybe 230-240 at the end of the back straight without plates. In the pre-plate days they would hit 225-ish but the current cars are a bit more aerodymanic. Not THAT much more aerodynamic, though. |
| A year ago, before conforming to more IRL-ish engine restrictions, CART cars had the highest HP of any current race series: turbocharged 2.5 L engines with between 1100-1200 HP. CART cars run oval tracks, and the highest speed achieved was just over 240 by Bruno Junqueiro in a qualifying session, who later said "I don't see any reason to go that fast again." I don't think a heavier Winston Cup car with 400 less HP is going to exceed 300 mph. F-1 cars in the late 80's early 90's, when turbos were allowed, also exceeded the 1000 HP mark. |
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Did someone say WRC???? [:D] [url]http://www.wrc.com[/url] Now that's entertainment. but only the highlights. [:D] Cars flying, rolling, parts hanging off all over, international raceways, turns both directions, Air Time, slides, e-brake turns, and mere hay bales seperating you from some crazy-ass mofo's getting to drive a car like you'll only dream about. |
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Race starts in 20 minutes. New qualifying rules were interesting. Not sure if I like it yet. If they give them only one lap they should be able to set the car up for it, I think. The pre-race should be good with all the explanations. Hopefully it will be an interesting race, though it is not one of my favorite tracks. Malaysia always seems to put on a good show though, so that is in a couple weeks. |
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Quoted: When are they going to realize that removing technology from the cars and making them more difficult to drive only increases Michael Shumachers advantage? What I think they are looking for is putting a greater emphasis on driver talent than on team's money for new technology. Either way the big dollar teams always find some way to win. I don't begrudge Schumacher a thing though. His first win was with Benetton, what a crap team that was, till he got a championship with his talent. Then he took Ferarri from over a decade of loserdom to the top, with his talent. He deserves everything he gets. Best part is that after every win, he is still looks as excited on the podium as his first. |
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Well they found a way to slow Michael down today- a half-wet half-dry road and a Bridgestone "intermediate" tire designed for this kind of uncertain condition that is apparently crap. Barachello has already crashed out after just seven laps and his tires were almost bald. Then they screwed up Michaels pitstop-14 seconds. Thanks to the wierd conditions there has been the most passing since- well since that last F1 race in the rain. Real racing-just add water. |