Posted: 3/3/2003 2:10:07 PM EDT
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Hi, Some of you may be familiar with the "M School" offered by BMW to new owners of their high-performance M-series autos. A discussion with a colleague about his experience with the school (and others like it) led to this post: I wonder how many of you AR15.com visitors have attended a formal (non-military) training course that made a significant difference in your ability to handle a weapon. Something more intensive and exotic than a Hunters' Safety course? The NRA offerings? High Power training? I see that the tuition and travel costs may be prohibitive for many of us; but for those who have made the investment, I wonder: has the money been well-spent? Which type of course did you take, and with whom did you "study?" For those who have not taken the courses, has there been more than just the price that has kept you from enrolling? Seem to see many "M5 equvalent" rifles discussed (and photographed) on this site, and wonder what you guys have learned. Thanks for any replies, IMHO |
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good question. I've never been there, but I've thought about it a few times. Since they're endorsed by [url=www.lightfighter.com]lightfighter[/url] (plug for Brad ...), I'm quite interested in taking some OPS classes once I can afford them. they'll send you a free catalogue of classes if you e-mail them. they look like pretty good classes, too. their website is [url]www.optionsforpersonalsecurity.com[/url] |
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Does Boy Scout camp count? [:)] I went to some NRA Highpower training classes many many years ago, wish I could've stuck with it, but finances did not allow at the time. [shamlessplug]I'm trying to get enough guys together for an Options for Personal Security Class in Camden TN ('bout 1/2 way between Nashville and Memphis), anyone who is interested let me know. I talked to one of the instructors there and was favorably impressed.[/shamlessplug] |
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Tactical Handgun, tactical shotgun, carbine marksmanship, each three day courses. Plus another two day handgun course that included carjacking defences. We actually got to shoot from inside our own vehicles. [url]http://www.southernexposuretraining.com[/url] If your in central Fl. these courses are great bang for the buck. I have been a skydiving instructor for nearly twenty years, I know a good instructor when I see one. Randy Cain is an excellent instructor.[url]http://www.guntactics.com/[/url] Check his credentials, he has taught at many of the major schools. You can get the same knowledge at way less cost. JMHO |
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Ten Texas AR15.com folks took a Tactical Carbine course last weekend at ProTac Global in Waco, Texas. Our Instructor was a US Marine Certified Master Instructor. Some of us are going back in May for Precision Rifle training. Several of us have more extensive training. [red]**Edited to say you can read about it over in the Texas Hometown Forum. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=8&t=167495[/url][/red] The sight of The_Emu down in the mud engaging targets from UNDER THE BARRICADE was worth the price of admission. |
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Does para-military count as non-military? If so, I went through Basic Training when I was in Junior High. Complete with courses like "You and your NBC Suit", "Full-Auto with your KK-MPi: More than Fun." and "How not to get lost in the woods". Edited to add: Little Kar98, age 15: [img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/IG_LoadBioPic.asp?sAccountUnq=19313[/img] |
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My last vacation, I took a week long Advanced Carbine and Urban Tactics Course at [url=http://www.blackwaterusa.com/]Blackwater Training Facility[/url]. Ronin45 (John) put it together. I had a blast, blew through almost 3000 rounds of SS-109 and found out I COULD hit targets at 300+ meters [:D] He went back and took a High Presicion shooting class (sniper) that I'd love to try. My shooting definitely improved 10 fold. The only draw back is that Bench shooting seems so boring now. [:D] |
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I will tell you this... Men think they are born experts at: Sex, Shooting, and Driving. They (we) are not born experts at shit. If you carry a pistol (CCW) you need to go get trained. The rifle classes are fun, but are you really going to use a carbine ? Be realistic. Getting your firearms training from a magazine, book, video, ect, is kin to learning how to have sex from a porn video or magazine... Or learning how to drive from a Hollywood movie. Good places... Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, and a couple of others. What have I learned ? The more classes I attend, the more I realize how much I didn't know. Doing something under stress, is way different that reading about it. I will end this by saying that I have seen video of people, on the internet, whom I thought knew what they were doing... They didn't, they were a joke. Equipment experts on facts and girls in their backyard ? Maybe. Not shooters. |
| Although the management has gotten a lot of bad press, mostly deserving, the training at Frontsight in Nevada is good. I've taken a couple of handgun courses and the subgun course and plan on taking some rifle and shotgun as well. You do leave much improved over the way you arrived. |
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I’ve been through a couple of Smith and Wesson Academy schools. [url]www.smith-wesson.com/Training/new.htm[/url] While expensive, they were quite good and well worth the price. At the time their facilities were rather poor. They’ve since upgraded their facilities, so I assume their training is even better now. However - while I could care less about the S&W boycott - Massachusetts is such a hostile gun environment that, frankly, I’ll never go there again. Suggestion: While traditional shooting type schools are certainly worthwhile, if you’re serious about the defensive use of a firearm, you really must go through at least some training involving Simunitions, FATS simulators, or such. |
| All of my post military weapons training has been job related and nothing "high speed". I have competed in a two man "SWAT challenge" and won. But it was a competition, no training. I don't own homeland defense weapons with the intent of using them in a tactical scenario outside of my employment. I own them to shoot for fun. |
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Tactical Handgun, tactical shotgun, carbine marksmanship, each three day courses. Plus another two day handgun course that included carjacking defences. We actually got to shoot from inside our own vehicles. www.southernexposuretraining.com If your in central Fl. these courses are great bang for the buck. I have been a skydiving instructor for nearly twenty years, I know a good instructor when I see one. Randy Cain is an excellent instructor.www.guntactics.com/ Check his credentials, he has taught at many of the major schools. You can get the same knowledge at way less cost. JMHO Just to second captianpooby's recommendation. Have attended 2 carbine courses and 1 shotgun course and can attest to the high caliber of people Joe Seybold has come thru his facility. All Gunsite faculty IIRC. Bill Jeans, Randy Cain and Jim Crews are the instructors I've been fortunate enough to have taken classes with and there is just knowledge you could not have been exposed to without their help, excellent instructors available to give you the tools to make yourself better prepared to defend yourself, family, ect... . Warning- after your first class you will be hooked and will want to take more classes. Hoping to get in a Handgun class in June and another course before the end of the year. It is an exceptional learning opportunity and highly recommended to anyone wanting to learn defensive gun tactics. |
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Quoted: I’ve been through a couple of Smith and Wesson Academy schools. [url]www.smith-wesson.com/Training/new.htm[/url] While expensive, they were quite good and well worth the price. At the time their facilities were rather poor. They’ve since upgraded their facilities, so I assume their training is even better now. However - while I could care less about the S&W boycott - Massachusetts is such a hostile gun environment that, frankly, I’ll never go there again. Suggestion: While traditional shooting type schools are certainly worthwhile, if you’re serious about the defensive use of a firearm, you really must go through at least some training involving Simunitions, FATS simulators, or such. I think there's a Sig academy in NH that might be less difficult to go to. |
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Sig and S&W are both good schools. If I recall correctly, their prices are pretty low and they supply you with guns and ammo (included in the cost of the class.) While I think you should shoot your own gun, the ammo thing is great. There are some really great "traveling" instructors out there. Many teach at the big places too. |
| I've taken a 4-day handgun class at Front Sight, a 1-day basic pistol, 1-day carbine and 1-day handgun retention and disarming class (all at HALO in Concord, CA) and a 2-day tactical handgun class with Chuck Taylor. I'm signed up for a Chuck Taylor 2-day advanced tactical handgun and 2-day carbine class. All the firearm classes have helped my shooting tremendously. |
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While I have never been to a 'civilian' training class -- yet, I would NOT hesitate to recommend attending some, specially for those who have not had ANY training at all. My training is all military, that is what we did. To keep the 'edge' you have to train. TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN! Admittedly, I need to go back to school. I WANT to go back to school. I miss it. hows that saying go, about "beware the man with one rifle..." ???? I too have been swept up in this 'game' of acquisition, but maybe it's time we all focused on the main objective (?) [:)] |
| Two-day (16+ hours) tactical handgun course (minimum 1000 rds required). I'm scheduled for a two-day tactical carbine course upcoming, and a 12-hour shotgun course in April. As has been stated before, you soon become aware that you really know less than you thought, and you're expert at practically nothing. You also realize that in order to maintain the skills learned in a course like this, you must commit to practicing religiously and for the rest of your life if you ever intend - or need - to apply your newfound knowledge / skills. Otherwise, like anything, atrophy takes it toll over time and the money you spent on the course converts to expensive, memorable entertainment. |
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I once worked for a multi-billionaire family as a Paramedic. My job was to be close by where ever they travelled. Since I was going to be near them at all times, the executive security trained me (monthly) in tactical handgun (P226) and tactical shotgun (Mossberg 500) classes. I would take 1 or 2 classes per month in fire and maneuver techniques - both normal and low visibility. They included self protection and executive protection. I did that for 3.5 yrs. The training was fun, the money was better than excellent, but the job was boring as hell. I was ALWAYS away from my family. Great job for a single guy. |
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Quoted: 199-I considered going to S&W because it was within driving distance, but I couldn't figure whether I could legally bring a pistol in MA, how did S&W handle that? I think there's a Sig academy in NH that might be less difficult to go to. Don’t know – I was a Federal LEO at the time, so it was a non-issue for me. Now that I’m retired, I’ve joined the great, unwashed masses and it is an issue for me! [>Q] I do remember that even back then it was against state law to leave a firearm in a parked car. S&W will store them overnight during class. However, now that I can’t legally carry concealed, I wonder what I’m supposed to do if I’m in-transit with a firearm in my possession and need to have a bite to eat or go to the bathroom or such. I can’t leave the firearm in the car and I can’t take it with me!! [?] While I can’t find it on their website, it some of their other literature they say they have a limited number of firearms that they can loan students. However, you must make arrangements beforehand. Also, a few years ago Massachusetts passed a law making it illegal to sell ammo to non-state residents. At the time, this really messed up things for the academy. Per their website, they now supply ammo for most classes, so I guess maybe that’s been resolved. However, at the bottom of their Precision Rifle class is the statement: “Note: Student must provide their own ammunition for this course. Massachusetts law prohibits sale of ammunition to nonresidents.” So I’m confused!! [:\] Anyway, the heck with Massachusetts – there are too many good schools in other states to put up with this foolishness. I’ve only been to the Sigarms Academy for the armorer’s training, so I really can’t comment too much on the firearms training. The courses pretty much mirror the S&W Academy courses (not surprisingly – when the Sigarms Academy started up they hired an experienced S&W Academy instructor who seems to have brought a lot of training materials with him!!). I’ve been considering trying one or two Sigarms schools myself. Unfortunately, I’ll have to drive through Massachusetts to get there. I figure I’ll gas up and take a whiz right before I get to the state line and then drive straight through (carefully obeying all traffic laws). No offense to our members who live there – but I hate that state!! [:(!] Edited to add apologies to IMHO for wandering so far off his topic! |
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I've taken 3 urban rifle courses and a handgun course with [url=http://www.internationaltactical.com/]ITTS[/url]. Money well spent! We have a precision rifle course coming up in Sept. I'd like to do some more handgun and tactical shotgun courses. The head instructor is Scott Reitz, who just happens to be on the cover of the latest SWAT magazine. [img]http://www.swatmagazine.com/archive_2003/img_2003/apr03_cover_small.jpg[/img] |