Posted: 3/11/2015 1:23:08 PM EDT
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If you shoot M855 through a 16" 1:9 does it wear the barrel out quicker than just shooting XM193?
I went to BLM land the with guys and they were shooting piles of it through their 1:9 M4's. I brought XM193 and stuck with that. None of their barrels were chromed either. They were even doing it with Slidefire stocks until the barrels were too hot to touch. Does it matter? I've only shot Federal XM193 in my rifle so I don't know anything about M855. The only time I thought about buying it was because I was lazy and it was on stripper clips, but never did. |
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Quoted: No. 855 still has the copper jacket. No difference to the barrel. Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. |
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I bet as many AR pattern barrels have been killed by those shitty segmented cleaning rods as have been legitimately shot out. Quoted:
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Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. I bet as many AR pattern barrels have been killed by those shitty segmented cleaning rods as have been legitimately shot out. Care to explain? |
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Even steel jackets won't wear out a barrel faster. Low carbon steel is actually softer than work hardened gilding metal, the copper alloy used in bullet jackets. But copper coated steel jackets can contribute to copper fouling because it is most often pure copper. The 5% Zn added to gilding metal makes the jacket fouling friable due to zinc vaporizing from firing heat. Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. Quoted:
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No. 855 still has the copper jacket. No difference to the barrel. Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. Lucky Gunner has demonstrated otherwise. Those copper washed steel jackets wore out the bores very quickly. Otherwise heat is a major contributor. |
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High Temp " grilling pam tactical pam " or regular? 
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Were they using some kind of lube inside the bore? If so then it's fine. I usually shoot a PAM down the barrel prior to shooting M855. High Temp " grilling pam tactical pam " or regular?
Good point.... I edited my post to clarify. |
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Lucky Gunner has demonstrated otherwise. Those copper washed steel jackets wore out the bores very quickly. Otherwise heat is a major contributor. Quoted:
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No. 855 still has the copper jacket. No difference to the barrel. Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. Lucky Gunner has demonstrated otherwise. Those copper washed steel jackets wore out the bores very quickly. Otherwise heat is a major contributor. Agreed. I used to think steel didn't wear barrels faster... Several tests indicate otherwise. As for the mechanism which causes said wear... I don't think it is hardness actually (it shouldn't be). My guess is it may have to do with the resistance to deformation being far higher with steel than gilding alloy. But that is, again, just a guess. |
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I bet as many AR pattern barrels have been killed by those shitty segmented cleaning rods as have been legitimately shot out. Quoted:
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Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. I bet as many AR pattern barrels have been killed by those shitty segmented cleaning rods as have been legitimately shot out. Serious question: How can the soft brass of a cleaning rod do anything to hardened steel? |
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Serious question: How can the soft brass of a cleaning rod do anything to hardened steel? Quoted:
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Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. I bet as many AR pattern barrels have been killed by those shitty segmented cleaning rods as have been legitimately shot out. Serious question: How can the soft brass of a cleaning rod do anything to hardened steel? Its for those that got the pleaseure of gaurd duty and had a mag full of blanks. You had to shoot something to pick off those pesky oppossums. |
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Shsssssh. Play along it helps the cause. Quoted:
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Seeing the tank under your username, I take it this is a joke. Shsssssh. Play along it helps the cause. You aren't trolling. You are truly wondering about this. We all know that a tank doesn't ensure using a weapon. In fact, the chances are the opposite. 
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Even steel jackets won't wear out a barrel faster. Low carbon steel is actually softer than work hardened gilding metal, the copper alloy used in bullet jackets. But copper coated steel jackets can contribute to copper fouling because it is most often pure copper. The 5% Zn added to gilding metal makes the jacket fouling friable due to zinc vaporizing from firing heat. Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat gas erosion. Quoted:
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No. 855 still has the copper jacket. No difference to the barrel. Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat gas erosion. Did I really just get to correct KeithJ?!? I'll be famous! ETA - Although I guess ridiculously hot barrels (glowing) are made softer and thus more susceptible to gas erosion while hot. |
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Even steel jackets won't wear out a barrel faster. Low carbon steel is actually softer than work hardened gilding metal, the copper alloy used in bullet jackets. But copper coated steel jackets can contribute to copper fouling because it is most often pure copper. The 5% Zn added to gilding metal makes the jacket fouling friable due to zinc vaporizing from firing heat. Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. Quoted:
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No. 855 still has the copper jacket. No difference to the barrel. Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. Read this then get back to us. Luckygunner test |
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Serious question: How can the soft brass of a cleaning rod do anything to hardened steel? Quoted:
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Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. I bet as many AR pattern barrels have been killed by those shitty segmented cleaning rods as have been legitimately shot out. Serious question: How can the soft brass of a cleaning rod do anything to hardened steel? They are steel cleaning rods. |
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They are steel cleaning rods. Quoted:
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Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. I bet as many AR pattern barrels have been killed by those shitty segmented cleaning rods as have been legitimately shot out. Serious question: How can the soft brass of a cleaning rod do anything to hardened steel? They are steel cleaning rods. All mine are brass; I thought they all were either brass or aluminum. I had to look it up but apparently they make steel ones too. Who would use one of those? 
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No. 855 still has the copper jacket. No difference to the barrel. Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. Read this then get back to us. Luckygunner test Yup. |
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All mine are brass; I thought they all were either brass or aluminum. I had to look it up but apparently they make steel ones too. Who would use one of those? Quoted:
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Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. I bet as many AR pattern barrels have been killed by those shitty segmented cleaning rods as have been legitimately shot out. Serious question: How can the soft brass of a cleaning rod do anything to hardened steel? They are steel cleaning rods. All mine are brass; I thought they all were either brass or aluminum. I had to look it up but apparently they make steel ones too. Who would use one of those? Meh... I use one sometimes. I also clean my AR barrels about twice every never, so I'm not too worried. |
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Quoted: Lucky Gunner has demonstrated otherwise. Those copper washed steel jackets wore out the bores very quickly. Otherwise heat is a major contributor. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No. 855 still has the copper jacket. No difference to the barrel. Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. Lucky Gunner has demonstrated otherwise. Those copper washed steel jackets wore out the bores very quickly. Otherwise heat is a major contributor. |
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Quoted: All mine are brass; I thought they all were either brass or aluminum. I had to look it up but apparently they make steel ones too. Who would use one of those? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. I bet as many AR pattern barrels have been killed by those shitty segmented cleaning rods as have been legitimately shot out. Serious question: How can the soft brass of a cleaning rod do anything to hardened steel? They are steel cleaning rods. All mine are brass; I thought they all were either brass or aluminum. I had to look it up but apparently they make steel ones too. Who would use one of those? |
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Serious question: How can the soft brass of a cleaning rod do anything to hardened steel? Quoted:
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Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. I bet as many AR pattern barrels have been killed by those shitty segmented cleaning rods as have been legitimately shot out. Serious question: How can the soft brass of a cleaning rod do anything to hardened steel? The brass can pick up grit, which can cause wear. Aluminum oxidizes instantly; ever used aluminum oxide sandpaper or grinding stones? Chemically the same as sapphire. Most of this can be mitigated by proper cleaning technique, such as not letting the rod scritch down the crown, or simply not cleaning from the muzzle end. |
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He didn't compare bullets to bullets, he compared ammo. Powder has a GREAT DEAL of the total wear factor. general Julian Hatcher wrote extensively on this in his notebook. Quoted:
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No. 855 still has the copper jacket. No difference to the barrel. Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. Lucky Gunner has demonstrated otherwise. Those copper washed steel jackets wore out the bores very quickly. Otherwise heat is a major contributor. Off to read some more... |
| I am sure there is a difference in wear characteristics, but I am equally certain that the difference is unnoticeable. The bearing surface of the M855 projectile is longer, which means more friction, but the round is also slower, which means less friction. The jacket constructions, bearing surface areas, and velocities are so similar that any difference will be minimal. |
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He didn't compare bullets to bullets, he compared ammo. Powder has a GREAT DEAL of the total wear factor. general Julian Hatcher wrote extensively on this in his notebook. Quoted:
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No. 855 still has the copper jacket. No difference to the barrel. Barrels wear from excessive cleaning and heat. Lucky Gunner has demonstrated otherwise. Those copper washed steel jackets wore out the bores very quickly. Otherwise heat is a major contributor. Well, yes. However after 10,000 rounds the carbine run with bimetallic jacketed (steel and copper) bullets was keyholing and shooting 8" patterns at 50 yards, while the carbine that had shot 10,000 of regular copper jacketed bullets (Federal) shot the same as it did at round zero. On the carbine run with steel/copper jackets you could just drop a throat erosion gauge down the muzzle. So yes, powder is important and you are right - a scientifically rigorous test would involve ammo loaded with different bullets and the same powder. But those barrels were essentially smoothbores after 10K rounds of copper washed steel and the grossly different bullet construction makes a lot more sense as the primary cause. |