Posted: 2/9/2003 4:35:51 PM EDT
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What would the average citizen say if it were proposed that police officers be assigned to a neighborhood which was inhabited by no one but criminals and those officers would be unarmed,patrol on foot and be heavily outnumbered? I wager that the overwhelming public response would be that the officers would have to be crazy to accept such an assignment.However as you read this,such a scenario is being played out in all areas of the country. I am a New York State Peace Officer, a Nassau County Correction Officer, not a guard, who is a person that watches school crossings.I work in a Maximum Security Correctional Facility.I am empowered by the State of New york to enforce it's Penal Laws and the Rules and Regulations of the Department of Correctional Services.In short,I am a Policeman.My beat is totally inhabited by convicted felons,who by definition are people who tend to break laws,rules and regulations.I can be outnumbered by as many as 70 to 1 at various times during my workday,and contrary to popular belief,I work without a sidearm.In short my neck is on the line every minute of the day. A Correctional Facility is a very misunderstood environment.The average person has little knowledge of it's workings.Society sends it's criminals to Correctional Facilities and as time passes,each criminal's crime fades from our memory until the collective prison/jail population becomes a vision of hordes of bad people being warehoused away from decent society in a place wherethey can cause no further harm.There is also the notion that prison/jail inmates cease to be a problem when they are incarcerated. Correctional Facilities are full of violence perpetrated by the prison populationagainst each other and the Correctional Staff.Felonies are committed daily but they are called "unusual incidents" and rarely result in public prosecution.Discipline is handled internallyand as a rule the public is never informed of these crimes. In the course of maintaing order in these facilities,many officers have endured the humiliation of being of being spit uponand having urine and feces thrown at them.Uncounted Correction Officers have been punched, kicked,bitten,stabbed and slashed with homemade weapons,taken hostage and even murdered in the line of duty,all the while being legally mandated to maintain their professional composure and refraining from any retaliation which could be the basis for dismissal from service. In addition to these obvious dangers,Correction Officers face hidden dangers in the form of AIDS,tuberculosis.Hepatitis B and C. The Prison population is increasing far beyond the system's designed capacity.As the public demands more police on the street and longer and stiffer sentences for criminals,Governments everywhere are handcuffing police in prisons where violence reigns supreme,jeoprdizing all those working behind prison/jail walls. Althogh you will never see me on "Rescue 911" or "Top Cops" I am a Law Enforcement Professional.I am THE FORGOTTEN COP hidden from public view,doing dangerous thankless duty on the world's most dangerous beat.Hoping someday to receive the respect and approval from the public whom I silently serve. |
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Whaa. You took the job knowing the environment. As for the weapons, if an inmate got ahold of your gun, do you honestly think that he would just unload it for you and tell you that firearms and criminals don't mix? No. He would kill you. Dead. Game Over. We would have another Attica type of riot and people would be killed. let them kill each other. Less for the liberals to turn loose. BTW, are you afraid that the inmates will riot over the new "Smoke Free" rules? DO you think that they will somehow follow that stupid rule, like they follow the "No Drugs", "No Booze", "No Sex" or "No Weapon" rules? They ain't called criminals for nothing.... |
| Yeah that's right I took the job knowing it wouldnt be a walk in the park.But when I started 13 years ago it was different.If an inmate stepped out of line he got stepped on,HARD! Now that the liberals (local and federal DOJ)have taken over it's different.Inmates right are all the rage now.They're important people! As far as weapons goes the point is that we are unarmed.With the exception of pepper spray on ocassion.On a routine patrol down a tier or in a dorm you only have a body alarm if that.(small pager type device that when depressed signals to a main location of trouble)NO radios or batons it's just you. I'd like to see you run into a dorm with 60 inmates when a couple of them are fighting and try to separate the combatants and restore order.Around 1993 or 94 we did impose a Non-Smoking rule.We stopped selling them cigarettes and within a few weeks after their supply dried up that was that. |
| While I agree with the policy of CO's not being armed with firearms, I do feel that at the least batons and pepper spray along with anti-stab body armor should be among the equipment issued for CO's. While you may feel forgotten, you're not. Keeping the animals caged and controlled is a frightening task and requires an immense amount of courage and integrity. I follow several boards and everywhere the subject of CO's and respect comes up, Police Officers are unanimous in their praise. If it seems that CO's don't come in for their fair share of expressed respect as compaired to Police, neither do they seem to come in for the same amount of abuse either. Perhaps the highest compliment is that as a rule, CO's do their difficult job so well, that no-one can find cause to critizise. Faint comfort I agree, but I think there's truth there also. I used to shoot with a couple of CO's and some of the tales they told of inmates behavior was pretty chilling. Frankly, dangerous is a pretty trivial word to describe the environment you work in. You have to be harder and tougher than the hardest and toughest you control, all the while maintaining a degree of balance and justice. You and all your fellow officers have my respect and deepest thanks. |
| I appreciate the kind words.For the most part it is a thankless job.Mainly because we are not in the public eye.My facility houses around 1800 inmates.The number varies between 1600 and 2000.I spend half my time inside the jail and the other half at the local hospital.When I transport off the compound I am armed.(Glock 19)Very rarely do we take a shotgun along for the ride.My sheriff ( appointed asshole,not elected)has failed to supply me with a bulletproof vest for my transport duties.Inside there are no Stab vests except for the CERT team.After 13 years I think I'm starting to suffer from PTSD.Too much violence, too much blood ,too much of having to take shit from lowlife criminals.For example we got one guy he's been coming to our jail since 1981 he's been incarcerated at our jail 44 times.Since 1981 he's only spent 28 months on the street.Imagine that.Our sheriff hates us and is totally incompetent and our union is not fighting for us as hard as they should be.Every day is like walking into the unknowm,the uncertain.When they let us run the show without scrutinizing every little incident it was a safer place.Inmates know they can get away with abusing us so they do.One day I hope the pendulum swings the other way.Until then I can only soldier on. |
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Having been on both sides of the walls, I think I'm somewhat qualified to comment on this. While I will say you are a LEO, I wont go as far to say a CO is a Policeman. True, there are many similarities in the professions, but there are as many differences. Being a "veteran" of a couple of prison riots and several "hairy" fubar'd calls on the street, the pucker factor certainly can be equitable. And yup, the idea of keeping a dorm full of felons in order while unarmed, in the middle of the night, is daunting. It's true that many folks assume CO's are armed, and are surprised to hear they arent(while inside). I can say that there would be a lot more problems if CO's were allowed to carry inside. This is the reason why CO's usually shine when it comes to verbal judo. To make it official, you have my respect. WTF is up with having no radio? And no tune ups? |
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kay9 inside the jail radios are usually in the office not on your person.Luckily the other night I happened to be paying attention when the call came over "Officer needs assistance B1A" I was right down the hall so I grabbed the radio and ran like hell.When I got to the dorm a guy a know Hans ( he just came off 15 months active duty and it was his first night back)was trying to break up a fight.About 30 guys were milling around about 60 guys total in the dorm.He was alone me and my partner Kenny got ther first.Kenny went to help Hans and I started screaming at the top of my lungs for every one to fid their bunks and have a seat .Then about 15 more guys showed up and it was over.Radio communication isvery important and that's why I monitor it.Oh BTW tuneups are a thing of the past. Soylent i think my friend Eddie could give me a link.On another note a certain state I think it was Colorado not sure refused to let a Correction Officers name ( who was killed in the line of duty ) be put on the Law enforcement memorial in that state.That's bullshit. |
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Quoted: On another note a certain state I think it was Colorado not sure refused to let a Correction Officers name ( who was killed in the line of duty ) be put on the Law enforcement memorial in that state.That's bullshit. Agreed. My uncle Phil was a CO in Nevada for 20+ years. He said he felt safer inside than outside sometimes and I have heard other COs mirror that statement. Have you ever felt that way? I am under the impression most guys incarcerated are just interested in serving their time and getting out. It is rare in the extreme that they target COs or their families once they leave from what I have been told. I wouldn't know firsthand, I am just curious. Any truth to that? |
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Again thanks for the kind words from fellow board members who took the time to post and had the brains to comprehend my post. Nobody growing up says I want to be Correction Officer.A Policeman,a Fireman,a Doctor,Truck Driver etc.Not a Correction Officer.After serving in the Army I came home like most guys worked a couple odd jobs wound up in a machine shop.Took a few civil service tests,and eventually took the Sherrif's Dept job.After a couple years took a small leave of absence went to S.Dakota to help settle some family business.I would have stayed but jobs just dont pay.Went back to the Sherrif's Dept.soon after.In 1996 I took a police exam and scored 100.They never hired because they said the test was unfair to minorities.I never intended to make this my career but that's the way things work out.With 13 years invested I'm not about to just leave.There that's my dignified response. |
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Quoted: Another Jackass statement by another Jackass that didn't get the point of the post. Again thanks for the kind words from fellow board members who took the time to post and had the brains to comprehend my post. Nobody growing up says I want to be Correction Officer.A Policeman,a Fireman,a Doctor,Truck Driver etc.Not a Correction Officer.After serving in the Army I came home like most guys worked a couple odd jobs wound up in a machine shop.Took a few civil service tests,and eventually took the Sherrif's Dept job.After a couple years took a small leave of absence went to S.Dakota to help settle some family business.I would have stayed but jobs just dont pay.Went back to the Sherrif's Dept.soon after.In 1996 I took a police exam and scored 100.They never hired because they said the test was unfair to minorities.I never intended to make this my career but that's the way things work out.With 13 years invested I'm not about to just leave.The that's my dignified response. QCMGR I believe you flamed me once in the past.Do me a favor go troll somewhere else you skid. Chill dude, It is just my opinion. You’re right, it is a shitty job. Am I glad you do it? No, I wish you could pursue a vocation that is more to your liking. I have an undergraduate degree in Criminology. (I have a Master degree in a different field). I had the same job options you have. It is miserable work, I just wish people would recognize it and leave it at that. I had my turn with the field of law enforcement and corrections. I hated it; everyone in the business hated it. You are exposed to things that normal people never experience, and it diminishes each of us. Yes I bashed your profession. I wish you did not have to do it. Everyone needs a job. I understand that. All I ask is to call a spade a spade. I know it sucks, you can’t correct people. I just get pissed when people in the field make it sound like more than it is. I feel the same about LE. People in your profession pontificate about the sacrifice. I say, do something else. I did and I am happier for it. As far as criminals, we should look at Pareto’s law, i.e. the chronic 20% of criminals commit 80% of crime. Lock the f-ckers up and loose the key. Make people who commit property crimes make restitution, treat drug addicts. Keep violent offenders in lockdown (the Penitentiary model) and execute sex offenders. Return policing to the people and remember, “ an armed society is a polite society” Again I stand by my opinion, you know the old saying. Don’t let my bullshit views diminish anyone on a personal level. Happy shooting, QCMGR |
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Quoted: Do you have a link to the number of COs KLD each year? I did a quick view and found 2 in 2002 that were victims of homicide. A couple died in crashes, and I think two from heart attacks. [url]http://www.odmp.org/[/url] Site should be on every cops "favorite" list. |
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Quoted: Soylent I'd much rather be on the outside transporting than inside.Also it's rather unnerving when you run into an ex-inmate on the street and you recognize each other.Not a good feeling.Gotta run check in tomorrow. I can see how that might be uncomfortable. You have my respect. |
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In California State prison gaurds are kinda sorta cops. City jail gaurds are rarely cops, and county jail gaurds are mostly cops. By "cops" I mean 831.1 status or equvilent under the penal code. That said, I've worked in corrections and it's nothing like being a street cop. Two things that make corrections easy mindless work is you know everyone in your beat is a scumbag, So you treat them in the manner prescribed by law, not an ounce better. Much easier than trying to pick the scumbags out of a crowd of decent people on the street. The other huge difference between a jail beat and street beat is prisoners have no reasonable expectation of privacy. |
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I worked at a county jail for 26 months before hitting the street. Imagine standing in front of 64 inmates while you are by yourself and armed with a can of pepper spray. If you don't have good verbal judo (or gerbil voodoo) skills and good command presence, things can go to shit right quick. Kudos to Turnkey and his bretheren, who keep the animals away from us. It takes balls, to work behind the walls.... |
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Quoted: If you don't have good verbal judo (or gerbil voodoo) skills and good command presence, things can go to shit right quick. 100% True. Gerbil VooDoo...that's funny!!! It takes balls, to work behind the walls.... You guys got my respect, once I'm done processing a perp he's all yours. I can't handle being with my collar for more than a few hours, I don't know how you guys do it. Thanks. |
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Turnkey, I do not know how long you have been posting or reading on this site but if you are looking for sympathy or respect you are on the wrong site. This site is full of cop hating, cop bashing scumbags that turn my stomach. Many don't even have anything nice to say when the cop's get killed except " you knew it could happen going in". However if you came hear for the gun talk you are in the right place. Many, many people here know what they are talking about when it comes to guns. I have met several in person and they are great people. You just can't discuss politics. I know that this is confusing but life is confusing. You work on Long Island. You probably live on Long Island. Hook up with the Long Island shooters here, Wave is the unofficial group leader, they are a great bunch. I hook up with them as much as my schedule allows. MIKE. |
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Any time someone wants to try Turnkey's job on for size, Corrections everywhere is almost always hiring...ever wonder why? For those of you who don't know, street cops just think they know about fighting...CO's fight more some weeks than many street cops do in a year. The good ones who move on to the street also make great detectives because they know how to handle themselves verbally and they usually have extremely good sources. Corrections IS the forgotten part of LE work, and thank God there are good men and women still willing to do it. Nothing like handing off a real asshole to an experienced booking officer and watching him "tend to business". You guys on the street might also be surprised at just how many guns, knives, shanks, etc. make it past your frisks and get discovered by CO's. My hat's off to you, Turnkey. Like Wave, I don't know how you guys do it. Stay Safe |
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Quoted: Turnkey, I do not know how long you have been posting or reading on this site but if you are looking for sympathy or respect you are on the wrong site. This site is [red]full of[/red] cop hating, cop bashing scumbags that turn my stomach. Many don't even have anything nice to say when the cop's get killed except " you knew it could happen going in". [i]Full of???[/i] [>:/] Oh, [b]Turnkey[/b], you have my full respect. [u]Thank you[/u] for what you do! [:)] |