Posted: 10/2/2014 4:59:54 PM EDT
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Assume you are Secretary of Defense and have the full backing of POTUS and Congress to use all military assets necessary to annihilate ISIS in Syria and Iraq as quickly as possible.
How would you get the job done? |
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) but,.....
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Like I told my coworkers a few days ago;
Roll up on a village, bulldoze it and kill anyone who resists. Roll up on the next village and do the same. After about the 6th village, tell them if the attacks and violence stop, we won't bulldoze the village. They looked shocked and said, "What about the innocent people over there?" I said, "There are no innocent people over there." In the end, we can't win them over. They have a belief and they won't let it go. The answer then would be to simply kill them and rid the world of their pestilence. |
| MEU Any of em floating at the time. 31st has got to be tired of Darwin by now. Maybe a Camp L MEU could get some action too. 31st from the north, 22nd from the south. Employ some triple-7 message system then follow up with bacon strips on the end of bayonets... |
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Quoted:
Good point, how do you defeat an ideology, or can you? Quoted:
Quoted: As quickly as possible? Full scale invasion. But they'll just squirt elsewhere - tanks don't defeat an ideology.  Good point, how do you defeat an ideology, or can you? Remember how we defeated Communism? OP wanted ISIS defeated quickly, not an Islamic Reformation to bring Islam into the 21st Century. The US military can defeat ISIL. One week later, there will be a radical Islamic revolution in Saudi Arabia. How long does the United States want to involve itself in fundamental questions of Islamic theology?
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Quoted: Like I told my coworkers a few days ago;
Roll up on a village, bulldoze it and kill anyone who resists. Roll up on the next village and do the same. After about the 6th village, tell them if the attacks and violence stop, we won't bulldoze the village. They looked shocked and said, "What about the innocent people over there?" I said, "There are no innocent people over there." In the end, we can't win them over. They have a belief and they won't let it go. The answer then would be to simply kill them and rid the world of their pestilence. Bullshit. I'm trying to get a former worker for the US, his wife, and his 4 kids out of there now. Quit yapping your blood curdling little mouth and get down to the recruiter's office. If Uncle wanted you to have masturbatory visions of genocidal warfare, he would've issued them to you. |
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Quoted: Good point, how do you defeat an ideology, or can you? Quoted: Quoted: As quickly as possible? Full scale invasion. But they'll just squirt elsewhere - tanks don't defeat an ideology. Good point, how do you defeat an ideology, or can you? We whooped the shit outta the Nazi ideology - while we whooped the shit outta the Japanese and their Divine Emperor ideology. What we seem to have forgotten in the interim is that you have to start at 'Point A' , kill everybody that resists, destroy all the infrastructure, and leave no alternative but to adhere to our policies...all the way to 'Point B'. |
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We whooped the shit outta the Nazi ideology - while we whooped the shit outta the Japanese and their Divine Emperor ideology. What we seem to have forgotten in the interim is that you have to start at 'Point A' , kill everybody that resists, destroy all the infrastructure, and leave no alternative but to adhere to our policies...all the way to 'Point B'. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: As quickly as possible? Full scale invasion. But they'll just squirt elsewhere - tanks don't defeat an ideology. Good point, how do you defeat an ideology, or can you? What we seem to have forgotten in the interim is that you have to start at 'Point A' , kill everybody that resists, destroy all the infrastructure, and leave no alternative but to adhere to our policies...all the way to 'Point B'. Those were national ideologies - when their supporting nation state collapsed, the ideology was basically finished. Yet we still have neo-Nazis running around. Defeat the Islamic State, the ideology just squirts into another area - like the drug gangs from Columbia squirted into Mexico. |
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Quoted: Find a way to involve Russia in a war in Iraq that will severely fuck up their resources and economy.
And Iran. Or: Russia has found a way to involve the US in a war in Iraq that will severely fuck up our resources and economy. And we'll be allied with Iran in the effort.
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Quoted: http://recruitindevs.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/carpet-bomb-pickup3.jpg Carpet bomb the ever lovin shit out of them. |
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Quoted: Those were national ideologies - when their supporting nation state collapsed, the ideology was basically finished. Yet we still have neo-Nazis running around. Defeat the Islamic State, the ideology just squirts into another area - like the drug gangs from Columbia squirted into Mexico. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: As quickly as possible? Full scale invasion. But they'll just squirt elsewhere - tanks don't defeat an ideology. Good point, how do you defeat an ideology, or can you? What we seem to have forgotten in the interim is that you have to start at 'Point A' , kill everybody that resists, destroy all the infrastructure, and leave no alternative but to adhere to our policies...all the way to 'Point B'. Those were national ideologies - when their supporting nation state collapsed, the ideology was basically finished. Yet we still have neo-Nazis running around. Defeat the Islamic State, the ideology just squirts into another area - like the drug gangs from Columbia squirted into Mexico. |
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Quoted:
Good point, how do you defeat an ideology, or can you? Quoted:
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As quickly as possible? Full scale invasion. But they'll just squirt elsewhere - tanks don't defeat an ideology. Good point, how do you defeat an ideology, or can you? Reduce the adherents by any necessary means to a low enough population, that they are no longer a viable threat. Worked with Italian Fascists, Japanese Militarists, German Nazis and Commies in many areas. Look at the rise and fall of the KKK over the last hundred years. Look at the variety of fascist groups in the US and UK just before WW2 and where they are now. Look at the Shakers in the US. Although, believing in chastity is not going to guarantee a long lived ideology, no matter how good a chair you make. Stays that way when their is a competing ideology that the general public allows or believes and people won't kill you over it. Education by itself can often do it. How many Americans NOW believe the world is 6000 years old and that men and dinosaurs co-existed? |
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Those were national ideologies - when their supporting nation state collapsed, the ideology was basically finished. Yet we still have neo-Nazis running around. Defeat the Islamic State, the ideology just squirts into another area - like the drug gangs from Columbia squirted into Mexico. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: As quickly as possible? Full scale invasion. But they'll just squirt elsewhere - tanks don't defeat an ideology. Good point, how do you defeat an ideology, or can you? What we seem to have forgotten in the interim is that you have to start at 'Point A' , kill everybody that resists, destroy all the infrastructure, and leave no alternative but to adhere to our policies...all the way to 'Point B'. Those were national ideologies - when their supporting nation state collapsed, the ideology was basically finished. Yet we still have neo-Nazis running around. Defeat the Islamic State, the ideology just squirts into another area - like the drug gangs from Columbia squirted into Mexico. And outside their little dream world, how politically effective are the Neo-Nazis? died in the wool commies (outside east Asia)? Japanese Ultra-rightists? |
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Military solution in Iraq?
Remove their Command and Control systems, which is pretty much telephones, eliminate what, if any, air defense radars they might have. Highway of death their convoys and supply depots and then roll the up with good old fashioned armor and combined arms. It worked in Gulf War 1. They do have a pretty hard core hard corps of veterans, but most of their fighters have no experience of being on the wrong end of modern warfare. Suddenly being a soldier is not like being Billy Bad-Ass in London, when you know the enemy is there when everything around you blows up. You hear a helicopter and you see all the cars turn into scrap metal. You hear tanks, etc your boss exhorts you to die for Allah, and you don't know where your next meal is coming from, you don't have much ammo, etc If it then dissolves into what was feared if Lee's Army broke up and headed for the hills instead of surrendering, where you have roving bands of desperate men? The locals aren't going to readily feed you, they are going to call the cops on you. Be like the Northfield Minnesota Raid, you ride in to town to rob the bank and grocery store and every swinging dick in town that has been in an army or militia and has his own AK or AR is going to be potting at you. You can't fade in to the population when the population doesn't support you. The population is going to be pretty pissed at these guys, especially if they aren't Iraqi's. What's going to happen if Joe Abdul-Whakamole from Manchester, England and says "Allah commands you feed me", when ISIS shortened some people there a few months ago? |
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Quoted:
Assume you are Secretary of Defense and have the full backing of POTUS and Congress to use all military assets necessary to decimate ISIS in Syria and Iraq as quickly as possible. How would you get the job done? Expert Armchair General: First, isolate. Squeeze and siege. Cut off all outside support, of all kinds, and export smuggling. Wag war on all neighboring countries that collaborate or do business with them. Even if only clandestine/illegal smuggling. Too bad. Bomb and SF troops on the ground to destroy all supply lines in and out. Second, Psy ops. Heavy radio and infiltrator rumor campaign to blame the new "leadership" for every thing. Including rumors of slaughters, thefts, shortages, disease, etc. Third, devastate them internally. Destroy all infrastructure, supplies, crops, poison water supplies, etc. Yes, this means killing civilians who are supporters of the enemy. Defeats on the battle fields did not stop the enemy in WWII, it was the destruction of their home cities, industry and domestic work force that sapped their strength. Fourth Declare War formally. Warn other nations of interfering or supporting the enemy. Understand the wider war. Don't start what you can't finish. Don't tip toe around the Russians/Chinese/Arabs/etc. Once you start fighting, be prepared to finish all comers. No "limited war". All in, or not in. Be prepared to shoot down Russian support planes and the shit storm that will follow. Fifth, clean house in Syria and Iraq. Bomb, kill, destroy leadership and replace with post war/Martial plan style government. None of this "based on the Koran" BS. Secular Republic with an American style Constitution. Imposed. Not suggested. If you're not willing to do all these things then the only options are small covert actions and psy ops from a distance and hope that they will fold under their own weight once the realities of actually running a large state over come them. Seizing lots of territory is a lot easier than effectively ruling and maintaining it for the long haul. |
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You kill the enemy. Looks like a duck? Shoot it. Quacks like a duck? Bomb it. Smells like a duck? Well....its probably the nicest smelling thing in the country. The only way to win a war of ideology, is one of attrition. The only way to destroy an ideology is to kill everyone who subscribes to it before they can continue to spread it. |
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Quoted: Second Post nailed it in this instance. It is just like the movie War Games. The only way to win is to not play. Quoted: Quoted: As quickly as possible? Full scale invasion. But they'll just squirt elsewhere - tanks don't defeat an ideology. Second Post nailed it in this instance. It is just like the movie War Games. The only way to win is to not play. Yeah, letting them spread unchecked is a great idea. |
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Quoted:
Remember how we defeated Communism? OP wanted ISIS defeated quickly, not an Islamic Reformation to bring Islam into the 21st Century. The US military can defeat ISIL. One week later, there will be a radical Islamic revolution in Saudi Arabia. How long does the United States want to involve itself in fundamental questions of Islamic theology?Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: As quickly as possible? Full scale invasion. But they'll just squirt elsewhere - tanks don't defeat an ideology. Good point, how do you defeat an ideology, or can you? Remember how we defeated Communism? OP wanted ISIS defeated quickly, not an Islamic Reformation to bring Islam into the 21st Century. The US military can defeat ISIL. One week later, there will be a radical Islamic revolution in Saudi Arabia. How long does the United States want to involve itself in fundamental questions of Islamic theology?There are still a lot of real Communists in China, Russia Viet Nam, Cuba .... and a lot of other places. Nothing was defeated, it was changed. |
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"Decimate" means to reduce by 10%. I don't think you want to stop there.
(In Roman times, if a unit displayed cowardice or otherwise screwed up, the members would be forced to draw lots and one out of ten would be executed. For a modern version of this, see the Kirk Douglas movie "Paths of Glory.") |
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Quoted: Ideologies none the less. If you kill enough of them, you will eventually either sap their will to fight or reduce their numbers to manageable levels. Just gotta kill a bunch of the cocksuckers. Yeah. We've killed so may Al Qaeda adherents over the last 13 years that radical Sunni Islamists now have their own STATE, and are so brutal that Al Qaeda has revoked their Al Qaeda franchise. So while we can destroy the Islamic State, as we destroyed the Taliban government of Afghanistan, we have not succeeded in defeating the radical Sunni ideology, despite killing a bunch of the cocksuckers. I'd take some of you bloodthirsty lot a bit more seriously if you had tanks by your name, instead of posting from your comfortable armchair.
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