Posted: 5/13/2014 2:02:02 PM EDT
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http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/05/robert-farago/safs-alan-gottleib-on-background-checks-lets-make-a-deal/
As some of you may remember, Alan Gottlieb, founder of SAF and CCRKBA, teamed up with Sen. Charles Schumer to push expanded background checks after Newtown. Gottlieb maintained that we won more than we lost by such a deal, even after noted gun rights advocates such as Dave Kopel and others pointed out major flaws in Schumer-Toomey-Manchin and it was opposed by the NRA. As a lifetime member of SAF who had donated four figures worth of cash to them over the years and was very proud of their litigation work, I hoped Gottlieb had learned his lesson and would stay out of the legislative arena in the future. As the above link shows, he didn't learn his lesson and he is still pushing universal background check, i.e. registration. I hate being placed in a position where I have to choise between SAF's excellent litigation work until now and a guy who is going to use my donations to push for a policy that I think will be tremendously harmful to gun rights at this juncture; but I can't support SAF in good faith any longer if they aren't able to figure out why they are wrong on his issue. |
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I want my damn cake back Quoted:
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Fuck making a deal. No compromise. The antigun folks can go fuck themselves. Exactly! (Someone find the jpg, please) Here's the deal: We give up no more rights, and in exchange we don't shoot the fuckers trying to steal our rights in the face. |
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So we have been consistently expanding CCW, expanding the list of states that recognize NFA, have record sales of guns, have more and more first time gun buyers.....including women, have made major inroads in the cultural war, but suffer a few defeats at the state level, and he thinks we should lead by compromising. Dude needs a figurative baseball bat to his skull.
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Quoted: Fuck em. Sellouts. Stop donating money to them. Let the NRA hire their lawyers instead after SAF goes bankrupt.  Quoted: Quoted: That's unfortunate. But they have done some fantastic work on the litigation front. Fuck em. Sellouts. Stop donating money to them. Let the NRA hire their lawyers instead after SAF goes bankrupt. |
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NRA tried to stop Heller
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That's unfortunate. But they have done some fantastic work on the litigation front. Fuck em. Sellouts. Stop donating money to them. Let the NRA hire their lawyers instead after SAF goes bankrupt.
Anybody who has read a book knows that NRA had concerns about Parker (later Heller after Parker was dropped as a Plaintiff) - and considering that two of the final 5 vote majority on Heller were not even Supreme Court Justices during Parker, their concerns were not entirely unreasonable. Heller was funded by Robert Levy of the CATO Institute, not SAF. And when the chips were down and SAF was screaming "compromise now!" in 2013, NRA not only held fast, they won. Personally, if SAF would stick to what they were good at, I wouldn't have a problem with them; but if you give SAF or CCRKBA money, you are giving them money to push universal background checks - and not even a Tom Coburn style-system; but instead a Chuck Schumer-approved UBC. |
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Exactly! (Someone find the jpg, please) Here's the deal: We give up no more rights, and in exchange we don't shoot the fuckers trying to steal our rights in the face. Quoted:
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Fuck making a deal. No compromise. The antigun folks can go fuck themselves. Exactly! (Someone find the jpg, please) Here's the deal: We give up no more rights, and in exchange we don't shoot the fuckers trying to steal our rights in the face. This. |
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Well, as a SAF member, I find this disconcerting.
I joined the SAF because I liked what they were doing legally. I figured it was a good 'combo' to go with my Life NRA membership. I was even thinking about going Life in 2AF. Guess I will re-think that. I'll have to email them and see what their response is. I'm really hoping this is just some kind of .... brain fart. A very serious one. |
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The Second Amendment community are the only ones who ever make any compromises at the Federal level and we've done so over and over. Enough is enough. There is gun control in this country and a substantial amount of it already in place. None of it has ever been proven to have any impact on crime and in some cases you could show a correlation between it and rising crime rates.
The background checks involving mental health and private sales will not impact criminals who already smuggle into the country or manufacture literally tons of illegal contraband every single year. Criminals will continue to do straw purchases. Criminals will continue to steal firearms and purchase stolen firearms. If they can't get their guns that way they'll simply smuggle them across our extremely wide open border as they do literally metric tons of drugs every month or they'll manufacture them since the tooling and technology involved to make a basic firearm is not that complex. We see criminals set up labs, pirate software, counterfeit money, and on and on...firearms would be no different if the demand was there to justify their investment. Plus, background checks involving mental health risks the doctor/patient relationship. It will prevent many people from seeking help for their conditions and will increase the number of people who "self-medicate" using alcohol and illegal narcotics. What it will also do is give the government an avenue to each year expand what can disqualify you from possessing a firearm. Also, it takes a right away from people without due process of law placing it on the individuals to carry the burden of trying to restore their rights. That's just un-American and against every principle of justice we've stood for since 1776. The private sales requirements place at risk criminally family members and close friends. The required background checks on private party sales would also make it harder to dispose of an unwanted firearm by someone and lead to more careless care of the unwanted item making it easier to fall into the hands of criminals. The old widow who doesn't want to keep the pistol of her husband, but doesn't know what else to do with keep its laying around until her grandson steals it to use in a crime. I've seen the real deal world of the criminal justice system. I can say without a doubt that none of the proposed measures would have stopped any of those criminals. They are not going to suddenly be productive citizens and stop killing people simply due to one more codified law. All those shit proposals will do is get honest citizens killed. |
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Instead, feel free to donate to
http://calgunsfoundation.org/ .....fighting to bake a new cake.... |
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No compromise. The antigun folks can go fuck themselves. This. When two parties agree on the end but disagree on the means, then both can compromise on the means. When two parties have different end goals, then there is no way to compromise on the means. |
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Well, as a SAF member, I find this disconcerting. I joined the SAF because I liked what they were doing legally. I figured it was a good 'combo' to go with my Life NRA membership. I was even thinking about going Life in 2AF. Guess I will re-think that. I'll have to email them and see what their response is. I'm really hoping this is just some kind of .... brain fart. A very serious one. Same here. I guess ill stop giving them money. No compromise, none. |
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Compromise implies quid pro quo, which is Latin for "something for something."
They NEVER give us anything. That illustrated cartoon is dead on. We've never been given a damn thing in exchange for giving up our gun rights. It hasn't purchased us one ounce of safety or security. The 1934 NFA, 1968 GCA, the Hughes Amendment to FOPA in 1986, the dozens of hundreds of ATF regulations...none of it stopped a school massacre and none of the shit they're proposing would have stopped it or will stop the next one. All it does is take erode our freedoms and shift the balance of power even more in favor of the Federal government, which is exactly what it is designed to do. Anyone who thinks that those who propose gun control are honestly sincere about seeking more security for Americans are just naïve. |
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Exactly! (Someone find the jpg, please) Here's the deal: We give up no more rights, and in exchange we don't shoot the fuckers trying to steal our rights in the face. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuck making a deal. No compromise. The antigun folks can go fuck themselves. Exactly! (Someone find the jpg, please) Here's the deal: We give up no more rights, and in exchange we don't shoot the fuckers trying to steal our rights in the face. Or we could fucking ignore em and take our rights instead of whining about it. Fuck, maybe grow some balls and violate the COC! |
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Quoted: I hope the SAF members are raising hell via email right now. They have ignored me thus far. Now I just hang up on them when they cold call for donations. Doesn't help they are reading a shitty script, horribly, to the point you might as well be listening to an infomercial.
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They have ignored me thus far. Now I just hang up on them when they cold call for donations. Doesn't help they are reading a shitty script, horribly, to the point you might as well be listening to an infomercial.
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I hope the SAF members are raising hell via email right now. They have ignored me thus far. Now I just hang up on them when they cold call for donations. Doesn't help they are reading a shitty script, horribly, to the point you might as well be listening to an infomercial.
You aren't being called by the SAF, you are being called by a contract Telemarketer. |
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Quoted: Instead, feel free to donate to http://calgunsfoundation.org/ .....fighting to bake a new cake.... lawls |
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Quoted: You aren't being called by the SAF, you are being called by a contract Telemarketer. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I hope the SAF members are raising hell via email right now. They have ignored me thus far. Now I just hang up on them when they cold call for donations. Doesn't help they are reading a shitty script, horribly, to the point you might as well be listening to an infomercial. You aren't being called by the SAF, you are being called by a contract Telemarketer. Of course. The tone, lack of confidence, and total inability to convey the scare 'message' gives it away (uh, umm, day gunna take ur gunz). Never mind the person on the phone trying to convince me to 'upgrade' my membership when I have have been a lifer well before they jumped shark.
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Quoted: They have ignored me thus far. Now I just hang up on them when they cold call for donations. Doesn't help they are reading a shitty script, horribly, to the point you might as well be listening to an infomercial. Quoted: Quoted: I hope the SAF members are raising hell via email right now. They have ignored me thus far. Now I just hang up on them when they cold call for donations. Doesn't help they are reading a shitty script, horribly, to the point you might as well be listening to an infomercial. That's screwed up. And I've felt guilty for a while now for not being a member of SAF.  |
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Quoted: The Second Amendment community are the only ones who ever make any compromises at the Federal level and we've done so over and over. Enough is enough. There is gun control in this country and a substantial amount of it already in place. None of it has ever been proven to have any impact on crime and in some cases you could show a correlation between it and rising crime rates. The background checks involving mental health and private sales will not impact criminals who already smuggle into the country or manufacture literally tons of illegal contraband every single year. Criminals will continue to do straw purchases. Criminals will continue to steal firearms and purchase stolen firearms. If they can't get their guns that way they'll simply smuggle them across our extremely wide open border as they do literally metric tons of drugs every month or they'll manufacture them since the tooling and technology involved to make a basic firearm is not that complex. We see criminals set up labs, pirate software, counterfeit money, and on and on...firearms would be no different if the demand was there to justify their investment. Plus, background checks involving mental health risks the doctor/patient relationship. It will prevent many people from seeking help for their conditions and will increase the number of people who "self-medicate" using alcohol and illegal narcotics. What it will also do is give the government an avenue to each year expand what can disqualify you from possessing a firearm. Also, it takes a right away from people without due process of law placing it on the individuals to carry the burden of trying to restore their rights. That's just un-American and against every principle of justice we've stood for since 1776. The private sales requirements place at risk criminally family members and close friends. The required background checks on private party sales would also make it harder to dispose of an unwanted firearm by someone and lead to more careless care of the unwanted item making it easier to fall into the hands of criminals. The old widow who doesn't want to keep the pistol of her husband, but doesn't know what else to do with keep its laying around until her grandson steals it to use in a crime. I've seen the real deal world of the criminal justice system. I can say without a doubt that none of the proposed measures would have stopped any of those criminals. They are not going to suddenly be productive citizens and stop killing people simply due to one more codified law. All those shit proposals will do is get honest citizens killed. And then, what good is trying to run a background check on every firearms transfer throughout the states, when the information made available by those states is incomplete? I have often wondered why WA, for instance, just can't seem to ever qualify for part of the $60,864,885 in grants that have been awarded since 2009, under the NICS Improvement Act of 2007. Rather than addressing improving mental health records reporting, UBC opted for creating a flood of information requests, which would now only overload that same flawed system if it was to pass, using the apparently garbage data that UBC wants to apply to all above-board firearms transactions. http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=491#summaries |