Posted: 3/16/2014 5:19:52 AM EDT
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With all the technology out there, I've always wondered why there isn't some sort of buoy or box that is released on a cable when a plane hits the water. Even if it was too far for the cable, at least there would be some clue what happened. The black boxes are buried inside to survive a land crash, but don't do much when it's over water.
Seems pretty simple to me. cap |
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With all the technology out there, I've always wondered why there isn't some sort of buoy or box that is released on a cable when a plane hits the water. Even if it was too far for the cable, at least there would be some clue what happened. The black boxes are buried inside to survive a land crash, but don't do much when it's over water. Seems pretty simple to me. cap One thing with aviation is that any new or modified technology like you are suggesting has to be certified. If it's going to be an automatic system with apparatus permanently attached to the airframe, it'll be a long and expensive process. A manufacturer or airline cannot just install new systems without approval. |
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I often wonder why there isn't a telemetry type system that transmits data constantly instead of black boxes. We certainly have the technology to do that. I think part of the reason it isn't done, is because of what I posted above. New tech in aviation generally evolves slowly due to the high cost. Right now, a new communication network protocol to replace ACARS is being worked on. I imagine it will take forever to be implemented. I could see aircraft having a system similar to what you're describing in the future. I don't know enough about data storage to know how complex storing all that would be. Also, there's issues like equipment malfunction. Can the aircraft fly with this data system inop until it can be fixed? Airlines will be reluctant to adopt a new standard, if glitches are going to cause maintenance delays. For example, with the current flight data recorders, the airline I work for can fly the plane with the recorder inop, if certain conditions are met. |
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If the plane hit water (likely in my mind) there will be floating debris. If it crash impacted, it will be ripped apart and things such as seat cushions, etc will be floating. If it was in control and attempted a water landing, people got out, with deployed life rafts, etc
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I pretty much agree with the stupidity of a black box. This is 2014 and we have to still rely on finding a POS tape recorder. A 787 flight is going to produce half a terabyte of data. How much do you figure pushing all that data by satellite is going to add to your ticket? |
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They found it.
http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html |
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Hmmm. |
| The black boxes Ping underwater for a month or so from what I have read. But they have to have an idea of where it hit the water. The US navy recovered that black box from that Air France jet that went down a few years ago. I think it was a year or so after the jet went down that they found it. Obviously it was not pinging any longer but they were still able to access the data it recorded. |
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The black boxes Ping underwater for a month or so from what I have read. But they have to have an idea of where it hit the water. The US navy recovered that black box from that Air France jet that went down a few years ago. I think it was a year or so after the jet went down that they found it. Obviously it was not pinging any longer but they were still able to access the data it recorded. But then they KNEW where it was going: It didn't change its flight path. So, Yes, there were signals coming from the aircraft while it was flying. |
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Meh large commercial airliner crashes are so rare who cares? It's not the crashes that are of greatest concern. Flight accountibility is clearly lacking as we see playing out. So long as most any plane can be weaponized and disapear into the sky, nearly everything is a target by even primitive malcontents. |
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A 787 flight is going to produce half a terabyte of data. How much do you figure pushing all that data by satellite is going to add to your ticket? Quoted:
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I pretty much agree with the stupidity of a black box. This is 2014 and we have to still rely on finding a POS tape recorder. A 787 flight is going to produce half a terabyte of data. How much do you figure pushing all that data by satellite is going to add to your ticket? I know right. No one has spent any money trying to find a plane for the last week cause someone flipped off the switch of the ghetto tracking and tape recorder system. If you can remember the instructions on how to turn it off, then it's too easy to turn off. It's ghetto, sorry. |
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We just need a law that says you can't turn off the transponder, problem solved.  No they just need to hardwire the transponder so it can't be turned off. Like OnStar for a plane. The transponder should also be tracked via satellite not via antennas and waypoints on the ground. The fact that they don't know where this plane is stupid in this day and age. I can guarantee you that the NSA can track a person so why not a plane? Also if peoples phones were still working why didn't they triangulate the position? |
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This. Why can a pilot even turn it off? Quoted:
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We just need a law that says you can't turn off the transponder, problem solved. From what an airline pilot told me, among the emergency procedures given them after 9/11, was to turn off the transponder if there was a report of a possible missile in the air. The transponder gives an automated radio response (giving altitude and a 4 digit identifying code) to any inquiry pulse it receives. This amplifies the ability of air traffic control's radar to "see" the individual planes, and is the main purpose of the transponder. If it helps ATC's radar "see" the plane, it can theoretically help a missile's guidance system "see" the plane, if the guidance system is constructed to take that into account. As for why they were able to turn them off before 9/11, ALL avionic equipment has an off switch or breaker (usually both), to allow shutting it off if it malfunctions. It's a safety issue for various reasons. |
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This. Why can a pilot even turn it off? Quoted:
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We just need a law that says you can't turn off the transponder, problem solved. You ready for your mind to be blown? Over the lion's share of the country below 10,000 feet you don't even need to have a transponder installed in an aircraft. |
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I know right. No one has spent any money trying to find a plane for the last week cause someone flipped off the switch of the ghetto tracking and tape recorder system. If you can remember the instructions on how to turn it off, then it's too easy to turn off. It's ghetto, sorry. There's nothing in the jet that I work on that can't be shutoff by pulling a breaker. It's impossible to get around the need for circuit protection. |
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Quoted: There's nothing in the jet that I work on that can't be shutoff by pulling a breaker. It's impossible to get around the need for circuit protection. Quoted: Quoted: I know right. No one has spent any money trying to find a plane for the last week cause someone flipped off the switch of the ghetto tracking and tape recorder system. If you can remember the instructions on how to turn it off, then it's too easy to turn off. It's ghetto, sorry. There's nothing in the jet that I work on that can't be shutoff by pulling a breaker. It's impossible to get around the need for circuit protection. |
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You ready for your mind to be blown? Over the lion's share of the country below 10,000 feet you don't even need to have a transponder installed in an aircraft. Quoted:
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We just need a law that says you can't turn off the transponder, problem solved. You ready for your mind to be blown? Over the lion's share of the country below 10,000 feet you don't even need to have a transponder installed in an aircraft. There's quite a list of things that the general public seems to think are required on aircraft, that aren't (or aren't required for all aircraft). It's like the "Everybody knows you can't take a gun on a plane!" crowd. |
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There's nothing in the jet that I work on that can't be shutoff by pulling a breaker. It's impossible to get around the need for circuit protection. Quoted:
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I know right. No one has spent any money trying to find a plane for the last week cause someone flipped off the switch of the ghetto tracking and tape recorder system. If you can remember the instructions on how to turn it off, then it's too easy to turn off. It's ghetto, sorry. There's nothing in the jet that I work on that can't be shutoff by pulling a breaker. It's impossible to get around the need for circuit protection. Or have failures in flight that necessitate the need to selectivity shut off certain systems per the QRH. |
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This. But there is also the option to do it in a way that is only accessible from outside the plane. Quoted:
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I know right. No one has spent any money trying to find a plane for the last week cause someone flipped off the switch of the ghetto tracking and tape recorder system. If you can remember the instructions on how to turn it off, then it's too easy to turn off. It's ghetto, sorry. There's nothing in the jet that I work on that can't be shutoff by pulling a breaker. It's impossible to get around the need for circuit protection. Having access to the breakers allows them to be manipulated in an emergency. Although even if they were you are aware that the pilot is allowed access to the exterior of his plane before takeoff? |
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There's quite a list of things that the general public seems to think are required on aircraft, that aren't (or aren't required for all aircraft). It's like the "Everybody knows you can't take a gun on a plane!" crowd. Quoted:
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We just need a law that says you can't turn off the transponder, problem solved. You ready for your mind to be blown? Over the lion's share of the country below 10,000 feet you don't even need to have a transponder installed in an aircraft. There's quite a list of things that the general public seems to think are required on aircraft, that aren't (or aren't required for all aircraft). It's like the "Everybody knows you can't take a gun on a plane!" crowd. People would freak if they ever read the MEL or CDL for most large commercial A/C. |
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There's quite a list of things that the general public seems to think are required on aircraft, that aren't (or aren't required for all aircraft). It's like the "Everybody knows you can't take a gun on a plane!" crowd. Although it's slowly becoming less so there is a surprising amount of freedom left in the sky. |
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Everyone is getting too fancy. Just a simple buoy float would be more than there is now. Just a "you are here" message. I wonder if subs still have emergency buoys? cap Back in the day, the sub's buoys were sealed so they wouldn't release. They were there to appease the family. There was risk/fear that they would be released at the least opportune moment, like when your opponents were after you. Not that our boats ever went anyplace that they shouldn't be, or ever came back damaged. |
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This. But there is also the option to do it in a way that is only accessible from outside the plane. Quoted:
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I know right. No one has spent any money trying to find a plane for the last week cause someone flipped off the switch of the ghetto tracking and tape recorder system. If you can remember the instructions on how to turn it off, then it's too easy to turn off. It's ghetto, sorry. There's nothing in the jet that I work on that can't be shutoff by pulling a breaker. It's impossible to get around the need for circuit protection. That creates a safety problem. There are situations where the pilot would NEED the ability to turn things off. The pilot also has a HUGE FUCKING NEED to be able to reset the fucking breaker if it trips. Beechcraft's brilliant engineers apparently missed that one concept, when they put the breaker for the King Air landing gear motor UNDER THE COCKPIT FLOOR. So instead of resetting the breaker, extending the gear normally, and squawking the breaker as having popped in flight (check the breaker and replace it if weak, look for other causes if it is good), the pilot has to use the manual gear extension handle - disabling the retraction mechanism. The process then moves to putting the plane on jacks and often having to pull the interior of the plane and remove about half of the cockpit floor (instead of just the one access panel needed to get to the breaker), because the manual extension system is easily run past the point where it jams the entire system so badly that it cannot be disengaged without tearing the system apart. Putting breakers and switches where the cockpit crew cannot get to them, is one of the most retarded fucking ideas I have ever seen. If you think the above is a bit harsh, try getting assigned the job of unjamming that system a few times. |
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People would freak if they ever read the MEL or CDL for most large commercial A/C. Quoted:
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We just need a law that says you can't turn off the transponder, problem solved. You ready for your mind to be blown? Over the lion's share of the country below 10,000 feet you don't even need to have a transponder installed in an aircraft. There's quite a list of things that the general public seems to think are required on aircraft, that aren't (or aren't required for all aircraft). It's like the "Everybody knows you can't take a gun on a plane!" crowd. People would freak if they ever read the MEL or CDL for most large commercial A/C. Yep. |
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With all the technology out there, I've always wondered why there isn't some sort of buoy or box that is released on a cable when a plane hits the water. Even if it was too far for the cable, at least there would be some clue what happened. The black boxes are buried inside to survive a land crash, but don't do much when it's over water. Seems pretty simple to me. cap The ELT and CVR are both designed for crashes on land or water. They are placed in the section of the aircraft deemed most likely to survive in the event of a crash. And most often, that is the tail of the aircraft. The ELT is even designed with a switch to activate when submersed in water. |