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Posted: 12/11/2002 9:25:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 9:33:49 AM EDT
I don't believe that smokeless powder is considered to be an explosive. It burns too slow. Primers may be, however... Rocko
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 9:38:53 AM EDT
Anyone stocking up?
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 9:40:58 AM EDT
Think they will twist this around and apply it towards stockpiles of ammo, since ammo can be disassebmled?
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 9:42:43 AM EDT
Smokeless powder is classified as a propellant, not an explosive. That makes all the difference in the world. However, this is a foot in the door.
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 9:44:08 AM EDT
I don't care about that stuff. I'm not a re-loader. [grenade] Scott
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:01:52 AM EDT
Although it's another stupid law on the books, after reading it, I don't see how it applies to reloaders in any way.
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:01:55 AM EDT
That sucks . I cant not even think about what this USA of ours is going to be like in 10 years.
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:04:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:05:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:09:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:09:19 AM EDT
(He was being sarcastic)
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:11:44 AM EDT
Has this been confirmed by any of the activist organizatons? Or is this just another internet chain letter?
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:12:24 AM EDT
Great, now I have to get a permit for my rocket propellent components. JEEZ!! You guys think the Bureau of Anything That Functions is rough on guns, try Amateur rockets, sheesh. And I was about to petition for a waiver for 75,000 ft. ::grumble::
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:12:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:13:21 AM EDT
What are you all going to do about it?
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:14:01 AM EDT
Smokeless powder is classified as a flamable solid, and not an explosive, so it wouldn't apply. It still sucks as it is more restrictions on a "free" society.
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:14:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:15:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:15:59 AM EDT
Lets see 25lbs, 6 times a year. If they are trying to prevent stock piling of black powder; thats 150lbs in a year. Enough to make a very large explosive. Just another soccer mom law. "Its black, ugly looking, and explosive, oh dear we must ban it"
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:17:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:25:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DriftPunch: Smokeless powder is classified as a flamable solid, and not an explosive, so it wouldn't apply.
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Look at the label on any container of Alliant Powder. It plainly says: [b]CAUTION! CONTENTS EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE & EXPLOSIVE[/b] Woo hoo!
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:25:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2002 10:33:10 AM EDT by DBrewer842]
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:32:36 AM EDT
Well, it seems to me the poor American Farmer will now be under the thumb and hobnailed boot of the ATF. After all, they are big users of fuel oil and fertilizer. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 11:16:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf: (He was being sarcastic)
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Yes indeedy. See the little smile-guy blow himself up? [:)] Scott
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 11:36:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: Look at the label on any container of Alliant Powder. It plainly says: [b]CAUTION! CONTENTS EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE & EXPLOSIVE[/b]
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That too could apply to a propane tank or even a propane bottle at Lowes, but it matters not! Unless it's officially classified as an explosive by the regulating agency, in this case the ATF, it isn't an explosive. That doesn't mean it can't explode. Hey, I'm not complaining.
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 12:00:05 PM EDT
It does not apply to small arms ammunition or ammunition components, including powder, and primers. Here is a key paragraph in the act: Nothing in this Act shall be construed to affect the exception in section 845(a)(4) (relating to small arms ammunition and components of small arms ammunition) or section 845(a)(5) (relating to commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed 50 pounds intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms) of title 18, United States Code.
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 12:44:58 PM EDT
Maria Cuntwell (Senator from my state...pretty piss poor) was one of the sponsers of the original bill that INCLUDED gunpowder in it. The bill as filed deleted the existing exemption for smokeless powder, primers, and up to 50# of black powder. The version that passed the Senate ADDED the pre-existing exemption back in. (info from Joe Waldron)
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 12:58:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2002 1:02:02 PM EDT by magnum_99]
Why don't you change the title of this thread. If you would read the Act it clearly excepts small arms ammunition and components from the provisions. It's ok to be pissed about things that are unfair, when they are indeed unfair, but please attempt to address the substance of the issue with the facts, not knee-jerk hyperbole.
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 1:04:33 PM EDT
I'll make sure to buy powder through acquantances and friends from now on.
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 1:27:17 PM EDT
I think this act is mainly about the 37mm, 15mm, and 12 ga bird bombs that were being sold. The ATF changed the rules and required everyone purchasing them from the manufacture to have an explosives license...but it didn't say anthing about that person reselling them. Now it looks the forms are required for every transaction of them.
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 1:27:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 1:57:19 PM EDT
This part was interesting...
Additionally, on January 24, 2003, ATF will be moved to the Department of Justice and will be known as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATFE).
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Link Posted: 12/11/2002 2:22:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 3:59:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TomJefferson: Geez! Sounds like to me us Black Powder guys will have to start making out own. Anybody know where some good bat dung is?
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Black powder (up to 50 pounds) is exempt. What a lot of you don't understand is that this law is not new. It has been around for years. The only thing the new act did was bring intrastate sales under the law.
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 4:11:33 PM EDT
Meanwhile... some overpaid office slug is wondering what's with the sudden spike of hits and interest in the explosives section of the BATF(E) website. All your IP's have been duly noted and expect a knock on your door sometime in the coming week. [:D]
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 4:16:34 PM EDT
They've been watching you since you were just a lurker.
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 2:41:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 2:55:17 AM EDT
No exemption for Hollywood special effects teams? Tsk, tsk, tsk. If anyone is going to be pissed, it's them because they now have to give up the names of their employees for background checks. And that includes Miguel the truck driver and Jose the security guard who are probably here illegally. I am amazed they would do this to the chosen few.
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 3:12:59 AM EDT
Not only concerning this, but I think the fine folks over at the NRA also need a boot in their ass for not informing us of the transition that BATF is making to Dept. of Justice! [pissed] Please tell me if they have in the past 6 months as I have not been able to get near an issue of [i]American Rifleman[/i] lately.
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 6:41:08 AM EDT
The list of materials the BATF considers "explosive" is published annually in the Federal Register by law. This year's is here: [url]www.atf.treas.gov/explarson/notices/notice_943.pdf[/url] If you read it, "Smokeless powder" [i]is[/i] listed. However, as EOD_Guy pointed out, there is an exception for small-arms ammunition and components, and black powder up to 50 lbs. for use in antique arms under Title 18, Part I, Chapter 40, Section 845. But hey, "stroke of the pen, law of the land." It's good to pay attention to this stuff.
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