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Posted: 11/9/2002 5:40:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 5:43:43 AM EDT
George Orwell only missed by 20 years, no?
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 5:47:28 AM EDT
Only parts, the Thought Police have been here a while as well as doublespeak... .
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 5:51:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 5:53:13 AM EDT
[b]"The vehicle is the Homeland Security Act"[/b] How many have read this? You better put your tin foil hat on first! After all, only a loony like me would write such a piece of drivel.
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 5:57:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2002 5:58:26 AM EDT by ilikelegs]
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 5:57:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 6:44:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 82ndAbn: From what I've gathered, its mostly been the Democrats fighting the Homeland Security Act. What's up with that? I totally disagree with this blatant violation of my privacy!
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Its either liberty or security. It doesn't much seem like people care about liberty, since they are willing to believe that the government will promise their security, so is this falling on deaf ears? People don't care about this stuff because they believe "it won't happen to me" and they honestly think that. When it happens to them, it'll be too late, then the "told you so's" will be worthless and we'll all be worried about who will be next.
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 7:07:17 AM EDT
This would never stand in a Libertarian legislative body. If this comes to pass I'll have all you fiery Republicans to thank.
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 8:01:50 AM EDT
Sounds like they found a really convenient vehicle for the carnivore and echelon (sp?) systems. Art Bell listeners now have permission to don their secret tinfoil headware and hide under their aluminum trailer tables. I too think that the Homeland Security Act is a big pile of $#!*. I don't need it, I don't want it. It's just the same crap they've been trying to do for years and now they have a new and improved reason to get us to jump all over it to feel "safe". Benjamin Franklin said it best, I paraphrase but.. "those who would choose security over freedom is neither deserving of security nor freedom". May not be a direct quote but the meaning is still there. There is one great lesson that I've learned watching the steaming pile that is modern humanity. There are three types of people in this world, wolves, sheep, and dogs. Those that victimize, those that are victimized and those that accept neither as a choice but are willing to prevent one from doing evil to the other. There's another great quote that sums this up, it's from the movie "Fierce Creatures". If you've seen the movie, you know the one I mean. If not, go rent it and "A Fish Called Wanda". Not only is Jamie Lee Curtis HOT in these flicks but they're funny as homemade hell.
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 8:09:09 AM EDT
The problem with any such database is the huge number of false hits it will produce. See, there are 300 million some odd people in the US, and only a tiny handful are actually terrorists--a few hundred. Thus, finding them by this means is like looking for a needle in a haystack. The amount of available data quickly gets out of hand and even with a statistical approach, everything is still open to interpretation. Finding terrorists who keep a very low profile, pay with cash, and go out of their way to avoid the state aren't going to be phased by this at all. The people who should worry are all those false positives--just like in the airports. Hassled "randomly" will take on an all new meaning. Luckily, I think time is running out for America as we know it. So don't worry about this...
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 8:12:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: Luckily, I think time is running out for America as we know it. So don't worry about this...
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Brother, there is an interesting statement if I ever heard one. True too! [img]http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/sadness.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 8:33:34 AM EDT
2 points: Some people have suggested that America, the great country, died in the 70s. Interesting suggestion though I'm not old enough to have an informed opinion on this Point 2: so much for internet porn
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 9:13:02 AM EDT
Anyone that does not willingly accept this important liberty preserving computer system, only helps the terrorists destroy our freedoms.
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 6:43:26 PM EDT
I would only be against something like this if it affected my television reception or caused the price of goods imported from China to skyrocket. cynic
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 6:57:09 PM EDT
Am I the only one to notice...? KGB (Committee for State Security) RSHA (Reichssicherheitshauptamt/Central Office for the Security of the Reich) MfS (the East German "Ministry of State Security" aka Stasi) and of course the Office for Homeland Security. [img]http://www.libertyartworx.com/images/heimatsicherung.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 7:09:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: Anyone that does not willingly accept this important liberty preserving computer system, only helps the terrorists destroy our freedoms.
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Imbroglio, I just gotta love ya guy. Always a smile thanks to you! [:)] Actually, maybe we will be better off under terrorist rule? Just think what the Democratic Underground would be doing with the Taliban in power. No way could Islam survive the onslaught!
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 7:24:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2002 7:26:53 PM EDT by Dave_A]
Here's my take: There *SHOULD* be an OHS. What it should be is the issue. What do I think it should be: It should be a consolidated SINGLE federal LE agency, replacing the DEA, FBI, ATF, Immigration, etc... We are wasting too much money and loosing information due to the duplicated desk-jockeys running each of these agencies. It should NOT absorb the CIA (that's getting too 'Committee for State Security'-ish... However, it should share information through some established protocol, and should be designed to eliminate the kind of inter-agency pissing matches that create the trouble we have now. Then disband the border patrol, and replace them with Army troops (National Guard, Reserve, whatever). That's OHS done right. Consolidation will save money, and the gain in efficiency is much more significant than what would happen with the current expand-their-powers-and-make-them-talk plan...
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Oh, BTW, although a lot of 'bad guy' countries have these agencies, plenty of 'good guys' do too: The 'Home Office' (MI-5): UK Shin Bet: Israel (unless you're pro-Pal) Almost every European country has a similar organization (usually reporting to the Ministry of the Interior).
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 7:30:47 PM EDT
Before I start, I want to say PLEASE DO NOT FLAME ME FOR THIS!!! It would appear that as much as the radical left and Delta Uniformers are our sworn enemies, we do have one thing in common with them, hatred of the Patriot Act. If ever their was a consensus in this country it is that this is absolutely the biggest atrocity against the Bill of Rights ever! I hate left-wing views, but I sometimes hope they find a way to effectively snivel about this, because in this ONE CAUSE, and one cause alone, I would ally myself with them. (This does not mean at the polls, of course!) Then, after the wrongs have been righted, continue my campaign against liberalism. It seems to me that the most important things we have at stake in the country are defended 50-50 by the parties, which is why ALL rights are being subverted. Any one else feel this way? FLAME AWAY!
Link Posted: 11/9/2002 7:33:14 PM EDT
I wonder if there is a way to make every email I write flagged somehow so that it has to be reviewed by a flesh and blood, well flesh anyway, government agent? And if so, how can I get the message's first line to read "Fuck you, bluebelly." every time?
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