Posted: 11/8/2002 3:11:45 PM EDT
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Interesting article on ABC news. Seems there is a shortage of bugle players in the military. Funerals had started using boom boxes to play taps at veterans burials, but due to complaints have come up with a new twist. A computerized insert that goes inside a bugle and plays taps. You push a button on the device, hold the bugle to your lips and in 5 seconds it begins playing. The "bugler" just goes thru the motions. Sound really strange but I guess there will be no more sour notes. S-I |
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Quoted: Interesting article on ABC news. Seems there is a shortage of bugle players in the military. Funerals had started using boom boxes to play taps at veterans burials, but due to complaints have come up with a new twist. A computerized insert that goes inside a bugle and plays taps. You push a button on the device, hold the bugle to your lips and in 5 seconds it begins playing. The "bugler" just goes thru the motions. Sound really strange but I guess there will be no more sour notes. S-I From what I saw, It looked like a complete "electric bugle," as opposed to an insert. There is actually a speaker coming out from the end - so the bugle doesn't actually "play" - is is more or less a one tune-mausic player in a bugle shaped housing. As someone who used to have to strategically hide boom-boxes behind grave stones or trees, I feel this should be a definite improvement - assuming the military used decent quality amp / speaker so the sound is good. Incidentally, every real "bugler" we ever had actually played a trumpet. This new device is actually shaped like a genuine bugle. Adam |
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Quoted: Just another shameful example of how vets are treated by their country. I am actually rather curious what you would prefer - should the entire active military cease current operations and focus instead on burial details? I only ask this because I actually took serious FLACK form vets as an OIC for a funeral detail. At any given time, a significant amount of resources were committed to this - yet it was never enough for some of the vets. "I wanted pallbearers AND a firing party" (my guys did both as required) "Why don't we get a bugler" I don't know - anybody in your family play the trumpet? My point is, the active duty folks that do funeral do it becuase the local commanders feel it is right and good. It came out of real world OPTEMPO funds and was not in any way subsidized - this while the statistical peak of the WWII vet population was at that peak point in deaths while the active military was it's smallest in 50+ years. I want to make it clear - I am talking maybe 5-10% of the people we dealt with - but that tajes its toll on you when you do 100 funerals in a month. Since then, congress has mandated a mimimum of an officer and an NCO, plus flag and "bugle call." Still, I have seen no authorzations for additional people - they are all people pulled from their real jobs - and now at a time of war at that! We have probably more people in veterans groups than in the entire active military - many of them support their own. It seems to be the ones who had forgotten about the military for 40 years that suddenly expect a freakin! ticker tape parade beciase they did two years in the Air Force in the late '50s! Adam |
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Quoted: Quoted: Just another shameful example of how vets are treated by their country. I am actually rather curious what you would prefer - should the entire active military cease current operations and focus instead on burial details? I sincerely doubt that the operations of the military of the United States (comprising 1.3 million servicemembers) would come to a halt. "Why don't we get a bugler" I don't know - anybody in your family play the trumpet? General Eisenhower: I want someone to storm Omaha beach. Private Jones: Anybody in your family willing to do it? Nope, Private Jones did it. Sure is a shame he isn't important enough anymore to honor him properly. Guess that would be too much work. It came out of real world OPTEMPO funds and was not in any way subsidized - this while the statistical peak of the WWII vet population was at that peak point in deaths while the active military was it's smallest in 50+ years. So what you're saying is that Congress couldn't find the money to actually subsidize this. I would call that shameful. But, that's my point, isn't it? I want to make it clear - I am talking maybe 5-10% of the people we dealt with - but that tajes its toll on you when you do 100 funerals in a month. I have a relative who survived the Bataan Death March and spent the entire war in a Japanese POW camp. Please explain to him the toll this is taking on you. Since then, congress has mandated a mimimum of an officer and an NCO, plus flag and "bugle call." Still, I have seen no authorzations for additional people... No authorizations? Hmmm...I say "shameful" Adam Maybe you're right Adam. Maybe in today's world I am expecting too much. |
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Johnny-reno: I am willing to bet a sum of money that you are not serving in the active military. I would also be willing to bet that you, like many members of the board are fairly conservative, and want your government to use your tax dollars wisely - in addition to by and large staying out of your business. As a final assumption, I'd venture a guess that you would like to have a highly trained military that is prepared to do its nations bidding, and win, everytime it is called upon to do so. I make this assumption based on the fact that you have a relative who was in Bataan, something I pray me and my troopers never have to experience becuase we will so drastically overmatch our next enemy. I make those assumptions becuase I think you seem to misunderstand the amount of resources funeral details consume. Each military installation has one, count em, one band. Each band may have 1 bugler. As someone before me has pointed out, there are a lot of WWI, WWII, and I'd surmise, Korea vets who are passing away these days. I won't insult your intelligence by asking you to "do the math" but c'mon, we simply CANNOT have a bugler at every funeral the military is required to support. This new contraption, however, preserves the ceremonial quality of the funeral without the added expense of training thousands of new buglers to support our funeral detail requirements. So, are you willing to pay for a dedicated corps of funeral buglers (and benefits for them and their families etc etc etc.), or a few fancy bugle shaped tape recorders? Since I count myself among those destined to be a "veteran" someday, I understand that soldiers should be TRAINING FOR WAR and not spending weeks at a time planting old timers (someday) like me. Now, you can counter with a pithy quite from George Washington about respect for veterans equaling a society's will to serve - but I hope you won't do that, as good old GW didn't have nearly half as full a plate as a soldier in today's army does. I'm not sure I like being deployed 200 days out of the year either, but, right or wrong, that's the truth. As for some of the things you pointed out to another active duty soldier who has been a funeral detail OIC... I have to disagree with you there as well. I am an Cavalry Troop Commander. Each Tank takes a crew of four, and each Bradley takes a crew of three. When I have to cough up a funeral detail, that means that individual vehicles, platoons - and in some cases, my troop, has to almost cease operations to support funeral requirements. We're glad to do it, but I ask you, when we appear to be gearing up to go to war in the middle east, do you want my soldiers learing to play a bugle, or learing to fight? Your answer to that quesiton may determine how many more electornic bugles we need to buy in the next few months. LOAD SABOT!! Tanker |
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Quoted: Johnny-reno: I am willing to bet a sum of money that you are not serving in the active military. On November 5th, I completed 20 years of active duty service. I would also be willing to bet that you, like many members of the board are fairly conservative, and want your government to use your tax dollars wisely... Absolutely. I make those assumptions becuase I think you seem to misunderstand the amount of resources funeral details consume. You're wrong. I too have had the honor of allocating my "resources" to these details. I won't insult your intelligence by asking you to "do the math" but c'mon, we simply CANNOT have a bugler at every funeral the military is required to support. I completely agree. However, the government [b]can[/b] (but doesn't) allocate the resources to provide a bugler for it's vets. The bugler does not need to be a military member for these ceremonies. This new contraption, however, preserves the ceremonial quality of the funeral without the added expense of training thousands of new buglers to support our funeral detail requirements. A "contraption" just doesn't seem right in my view. It seems more like...well, a contraption. I appreciate your views, though I disagree. Consider these thoughts. How much effort and sacrifice did each individual serviceman provide for their country? Far more than the few hours or dollars it would take to honor a vet for his service to his country. As a matter of fact, I would say the effort to properly honor him on this one day would drastically pale in comparison to his combined sacrifices. How much in the way of resources by our country were expended to put our veterans in harms way? Far less than what it would take to honor a vet for his service to his country. My view on the treatment of US vets is certainly not contained to this one issue. Take a look at the sad state of affairs of our VA hospitals. Do a little research on the status of concurrent receipt of disability and retirement pay. I expect you will find the results dismaying. These are just some of the main issues that I find disturbing. There is a Bill Mauldin cartoon that sums up my feelings. In the cartoon, Mauldin's main characters, Willie and Joe visit a fellow WWII veteran still hospitalized with his injuries. The wounded vet says: "How's things outside, boys? Am I still a war hero or a drain on th' taxpayer?" I guess we know the answer. |
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They fire blanks in the gun salutes and nobody bitches (especially the people down range). I haven't seen the device but have seen the news story in the military's public affairs and seen the tv story. There are 11 of these things bought for and in use. They are only surveying what military member's families are thinking of them. From the video it did look pretty real. Typically at the services I've been to we put the saluting fire team a bit away from the guest to save them from jumping any more than they already do [:)] and the bugler stands next to or between them and the guests. In the video the guy blows into the horn, moves his fingers with the music (I played baratone and the trombone way way long ago) and it fooled me. The pitch and tone are perfect (though a TV speaker). Next time I'm at the national cemetary next to my base I'll ask if they have one of the 11 sample machines. If the surveys of the families come back negative I'm certain we'll have real bugles in use ... I just hope they leave the blanks in the rifles. |
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Quoted: There are 11 of these things bought for and in use. They are only surveying what military member's families are thinking of them. From the video it did look pretty real....In the video the guy blows into the horn, moves his fingers with the music (I played baratone and the trombone way way long ago) and it fooled me. Picture this the next time you go to a ballgame. You hear the Star Spangled Banner being sung and you see Milli Vanilli out on the field dancing around with dead mikes. This pseudo-bugle strikes me the same way. If the surveys of the families come back negative I'm certain we'll have real bugles in use.... I guess you already know that you can put me down as a "No, thank you." |
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I have lost too many long posts because the damn system logged me out while I was typing. It just happened again. [:(] At least, let me apologize for my typos earlier - I was trying to rush out the door. Paul: I'm sure you saw the same thing I saw - heck, I watched it on your channel. I'm not so sure I would judge ANYTHING through how it sounds on TV. I am one of those audiophile types, though. YMMV. Johnny_Reno: What service were you in? |