Posted: 11/7/2002 10:07:54 AM EDT
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I just drove 45 minutes to a shop outside of Atlanta called DixieGuns (dixieguns.com) to purchase a Colt M4 postban civilian model for $1050 (serial number ended in 661). But, I was confused so I wanted to get a little help... Does Colt test fire their weapons with 2000, 3000, 4000 or 5000 rounds?? I asked Cletus (the proprietor) about this and he asured me that the weapon was NIB from the factory (that is what it said clearly on the tag). I own a BushyM4gery that has 3500-4000 rounds through it... This is what I see when I look close at it: 1. BRASS KISSES on the deflector (it would be blasphemy to remove them) 2. NO gouges or scratches on the upper or lower (except the ejection port and mag well which I will cover shortly) 3. Slight finish wear right at the point wear the forward assist protrudes from the upper receiver. The wear is a 'line' approximately 3/16th of an inch long that wraps the outward facing edge of the circumference. 4. The recess where the charging handle locks into the upper is abraided (not malformed just USED). 5. The mag well has finish wear INSIDE. NO gouges. 6. The ejection port has wear that I notice because it is MY weapon. You probably wouldn't see it... Maybe you would... But it is NOT significant. This is the state of the Colt: 1. There was a brass pattern on the deflector that covered approximatelty 50% of the surface. Someone had attempted to remove the marks but they were clearly visible as a dark shadow on the surface. 2. Visible horizontal scratches above the ejection port and just below the top rail. 3. The forward assist looked like someone had taken some fine sandpaper to it (i.e much wear over the whole circumference along the whole length). 4. The recess where the charging handle locks in was CHEWED much worse than mine. 5. I was so astounded that I forgot to look... 6. The ejection port looked as though a 7 year old had worked it with a screwdrive for no less than three hours. So... This is what I need help with: 1. How many rounds does Colt test fire their weapons with? 2. Could the wear as describedhave been caused by less use? 3. Do all NIB Colts look like this? (Like I said, I own a Bushy. Until now I hadn't shopped for a Colt in person...) 4. Did I get lucky and get the magic gun that doesn't wear with use? 5. Has anyone else been j_rked off by Cletus? |
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When I purchased my Colt AR it WAS NIB...and it had NONE of the indicators that you provided. I KNOW mine was new because my dealer had just got it in and it was still sealed up. The damn thing was perfect...pristine...virgin...get my drift? NO marks...nothing at all that would indicate it had ever been used. My guess is that is a second hand rifle. Now...how many rounds do they fire...if any? If they do, I suspect it isn't many. Sorry...can't give you a good answer. My opinion...RUN AWAY...FAST! [soapbox] |
| That is high as giraffe nuts for a postban. Especially new. Check out GON magazine, there in a dealer advertising new Colt ARs for $900, if you must have a Colt (dunno why). I'd get a Bushy if I wuz you. Cheaper, standard size pins, no RDIAS block, and now includes notoriety for even more anti-PC! [:D] |
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LWilde: Thank you for the reply! I was inclined to believe that was the truth. That is why me and my $1200 stack of twenty dollar bills walked out of that store. ========================= In truth, I spend way too much money for the things I buy. I just don't like to haggle. I am not good at it. Fortunately, I work hard and make a decent living so it doesn't hurt too bad. I have learned to live with it... The problem is when some scumbag-loser wants to treat me with great disrespect while ripping me off. It is as though they assume my polite/honest/timid behavior equates to stupidity. Yes, I admin I am naive... BY CHOICE! I don't always carry cash. But, I DO carry cash (and a big farging legally concealed handgun) when I go to buy. Hell, I would own twice as many weapons now if the operators were a bit more respectful. Most of the time I just walk out... |
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Have no experience at all with this dealer, but from your description of wear, this piece has been used a hell of a lot more than just test fire rounds. If I recall correctly (and I may not, cause it's been a lot of years) the standard Colt test fire is either 5 or 10 rounds, with every ??th piece (50th- 100th???) fired for one 20 round mag. Even if this was one of those fired more than the standard, it wouldn't show that kind of wear. Buy it if you want. Just understand that you're being woofed on the condition. It's claearly a used gun. |
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The owner's name is Cleve. I'm a little surprised about your encounter. I've purchased lots of stuff from Dixie Firearms, both guns and ammo, and have always been treated fairly. I've taken the liberty of printing out your post so I can personally take it to Cleve tomorrow evening (was going there anyway) and get his response. They do stock lots of used firearms. Are you sure the one he showed you was supposed to be brand new? (While I'm thinking of it, is there any way Colt could tell you to whom they sold the rifle?) I personally get REALLY PISSED when I go way out of my way only to find something other than what I was promised. I was going to purchase a DSArms SA-58 from Dixie next month. Maybe I'll buy from Bernies sports (bernies-sports.com) instead. Sorry about your encounter, but I'd really like any more info, if any, you have on it so I can decide whether this company should get my future business. |
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you guys should try B&B outdoors on Mansell Rd. guns popular with kids and homies have incredible mark-ups but most items are VERY fairly priced. example NIB 10/22 $299 SAR-1 $479 on the otherhand i got my 700PSS NIB for $620 and my CZ-75 for $349. best of all, theyare good guys to deal with. fair and honest. |
| Hrm. I ordered a Bushy from my local gun shop....after five months the rifle finally came in. They didn't even open the shipping box on it until I was in the store. Everything looked brand new, except that there were some markings on the deflector. Didn't think much of it but when I got it home and and did a quick run through of the bore to clear it of any possible obstructions, the patch came out pretty damn dark. Took another five or six patches before they'd go through without getting really dirty. Didn't think much of it, as I thought they were test-fired at the factory. She's shooting fine now, but I'm wondering...especially since it was a special order direct from Bushy.... |
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Unfortunately, I know his name is Cleve. I was being a bit juvenile about this afair and felt the need to be insulting by getting his name wrong. Maybe he has been good on other things... My Bushy was purchased NIB from him! It is written, "Let your Yes mean yes and your No mean No." And, I tell you yes, I am certain that the tag said "NEW." And, yes, the proprietor said the weapon was new from the factory. I will caution you, Cleve said his FAL was aDSArms lower with Austrian parts. That makes it a "STG58A Austrian FAL." Bernies has a SA58C (which is all US DSArms parts) for the same price though you don't get the 4 extra preban mags ($40 - $60 online)... I would encourage you and others to go look at the Colt for yourself. Look for the serial number ending 661 and you will see exactly what I saw... |
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How may does Colt test fire? According to the Armorer's course I went to: 30 rounds to check cyclic rate/timing (full-auto weapons only) 30 rounds to check zero and that accuracy is within tolerances. I just got some new M4A1 carbines at work. Some had a few minor dings, and all had brass shine on the case deflectors (although it scrubbed right off with a toothbrush). None were in the shape you described, and the actions were noticably tight. They were also well covered in oil. |
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Why buy a Colt? A Bushmaster or Armalite will outshoot any new Colt right out of the box. It's a shame to say since Colt used to be the standard by which all others were judged. Now that standard is Bushmaster. Instead of spending 1K+ check out SteyrAUGs Cav Arms group buy. [b]Today is the last day.[/b] At $620 it's hard to beat! Edited to add link and pic: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=61&t=138581[/url] [img]http://www.cavalryarms.com/images/black.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.cavalryarms.com/images/tank2.jpg[/img] |
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Quoted: you guys should try B&B outdoors on Mansell Rd. guns popular with kids and homies have incredible mark-ups but most items are VERY fairly priced. example (snip) SAR-1 $479 YEOW!- way too much- that's even more than the prices Up Nawth here in Teddy Kennedy Land. FREX, The Gun Room in Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, sells SAR-1s for $389.00, plus 5% sales tax. Internet: AIMSurplus [url]www.aimsurplus.com[/url] sells them for $299.00, plus FFL fees and shipping- can't be any more than $360.00, in total, by the time it's delivered to your FFL. |
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Quoted: Why buy a Colt? A Bushmaster or Armalite will outshoot any new Colt right out of the box. It's a shame to say since Colt used to be the standard by which all others were judged. Now that standard is Bushmaster. Instead of spending 1K+ check out SteyrAUGs Cav Arms group buy. [b]Today is the last day.[/b] At $620 it's hard to beat! Edited to add link and pic: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=61&t=138581[/url] [url]http://www.cavalryarms.com/images/black.jpg[/url] [url]http://www.cavalryarms.com/images/tank2.jpg[/url] [b]Correction! Tomorrow is the last day.[/b] |
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Quoted: you guys should try B&B outdoors on Mansell Rd. guns popular with kids and homies have incredible mark-ups but most items are VERY fairly priced. example NIB 10/22 $299 SAR-1 $479 on the otherhand i got my 700PSS NIB for $620 and my CZ-75 for $349. best of all, theyare good guys to deal with. fair and honest. I agree and disagree with you on this one. The guys at B&B are some of the nicest guys you'd ever want to deal with. Where I disagree with you is in your "VERY fairly priced" comment. These guys are without a doubt the HIGHEST, OVERPRICED store in the metro Atlanta area. They sell plain-jane Bushy's for $899! I can buy the same rifle at 10 places for $779 or less. Their standard Glocks are $589. I can buy those from 10 different places in Atlanta for $489 or less. Their ammo and accessories are also way OVERPRICED. I understand that the local gun shop needs to make a profit, but these guys are taking advantage of the rich North Fulton crowd. More power to them for being able to get as much as they do for their firearms. I'm all for capitalism and wish them the best with their business. I just refuse to pay those astronomical prices. As for Cleve at DixieGuns, I have worked with him several times. The Bushy JKiser has was originally purchased there by me. I sold it to JKiser and it was definitely NEW IN BOX. I have bought other pistols, ammo, accessories, etc. from Cleve and have never had an issue with him. I just bought a case of Q3131A from him earlier this week. If JKiser says this is a used gun, it is a USED gun. |