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Posted: 10/22/2002 8:38:35 AM EDT
Seems to me that the people on this board have a lot of knowledge about how bullets act when they hit something in theory, but in real life it's a lot easier to see. Just because you read that a .223 remington, or the mostly equivelent military version, put a hole in a dead monkey at 250 meters doesn't mean anything. I have shot a lot of animals, never a human, but I think that the best way to see the effects of a bullet is to shoot something and try to kill it. For instance, someone gave a report about how the .223 caliber bullet caused devistating wounds on one of the snipers victoms. I have shot hundreds of coyotes, prarie dogs, etc. and even some big game with .223 caliber guns. The first thing noticed is that speed is absolutly everything. If you load a .223 remington and a .22-250 remington with the same bullet and spit one out at about 500 feet per second faster, you would not even begin to believe the difference in devistation. Also if you find a good hollowpoint and load it as hot a you can get it. When you shoot even somthing as small as a coyote the bullet usually will not even come out the other side due to it fragmenting and mushrooming out so badly. The type of bullet used makes a huge difference in what happens. As for larger game, bear, deer, elk, it has been my experience that to kill something you have to shoot it in the right place. I have friends that use .300 ultra mags and .338 weatherbys for all big game hunts. I use a .270. Killed all my animals with no more than two shots with it. All would have died with one shot, but as I am not going to let something that appears it could run and suffer do so. The second shots have all been insurance shots. The point is, yeah a bigger gun will help kill a bigger animal because it has to get through tougher bone and hide do tear the insides, but it doesn't take a bigger gun to kill a bigger animal. You have to place your shot. The bigger gun only gives you a little more leniency as to where you can put the bullet to still have an effective kill. This sniper has made very good shots so far. With those shot placements it could be arguable that a .22 mag would to the same job, obviously there would be less damage due to the speed difference, but it would have probably worked. And yes, I have shot thousands of animals with a .22 lr/mag, so I feel I can have an opinion about this. I realize that shooting gelatin and dead monkeys gives a good approximation about what would happen when a person is shot, probably the monkey more so, unless you clothed the gelatin. Anyways, I do realize that there are people on this board who have killed things and expieremented with different techniques, but shooting a wet phone book doesn't do it for me. And for those who have defended me and my family by having to take human life, you know more than me and god bless you, this is just my opinion on the matter.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:07:54 AM EDT
I have killed game animals with several different projectiles from different caliber firearms and bow and arrow. I have killed deer with .22 long rifle solids and stingers out of my Colts Woodsman and Stevens bolt action and Glenfield bolt action. I killed a deer with a head shot from a 9mm Llama. Haven't killed anything with my AR yet but hope to hunt coyote with it this winter. .30-06 is my weapon of choice for deer even if it is big enough for moose.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:12:40 AM EDT
I have killed many types of game and nongame animals. There is satisfaction in a well placed shot, even more when a shot is difficult. I like bustin' coyotes best. The get that OH SH!T look when they realize they are about to get rolled across the pasture. Lebrew
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:14:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:19:02 AM EDT
I stepped on an ant, once. Does that count?
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:19:11 AM EDT
I've kill a large variety of insects and spiders. I've run over my share of squirl, cat and bird with my car. Never actually killed anything with a gun. At least not to my knowledge. USPC40 [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/line.gif[/img] [url=www.nra.org][b][red]NRA[/red][/url] [url=www.nra.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][b][red]GOA[/red] [/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.saf.org][red]SAF[/red][/url] [url=www.saf.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][red]SAS[/red][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/b][/url] [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/alabamaflag.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:20:51 AM EDT
I killed two flies yesterday with a newspaper but missed another one. Poor shot placement on my part.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:23:23 AM EDT
killed a fair number of deersize animals. as well as a crapload of ducks doves squirrels rabbits etc... shotgun mostly for the latter group. .243 only for the deersize animals, and them 100 gr Noslers are one kick ass bullet-drops em right in their tracks.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:26:20 AM EDT
Every animal in texas I ve killed. Whather it flies, slides or walks. I was a big JOY HUNTER before. GG
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:32:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By guns762: I stepped on an ant, once. Does that count?
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How fast was your shoe moving? What size was your shoe? Were you wearing a shoe? If not, what size was your foot? You have to look at the details.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:37:50 AM EDT
jackrabbit on the run, incredibly lucky shot....and a lizard or two.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:40:16 AM EDT
I hurt a man's feelings once..... Scott
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:40:24 AM EDT
why clothe the gelatin and not the monkey? too sentimental?
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:45:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By imposter: I killed two flies yesterday with a newspaper but missed another one. Poor shot placement on my part.
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Yup, ya gotta hit 'em in the eye. Hunting and controlling varmints/pests for almost forty years, shot a few, what's the question?
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:51:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2002 10:52:06 AM EDT by ArchersGrin]
I hurt someones feelings once. Dscott beat me to it.......anyone guess the movie?
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:58:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MadProfessor:
Originally Posted By guns762: I stepped on an ant, once. Does that count?
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How fast was your shoe moving? What size was your shoe? Were you wearing a shoe? If not, what size was your foot? You have to look at the details.
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The BC of your average shoe is so low I don't think it could penetrate an ant's exoskeleton or its vital organs. However if you were wearing highheels with a ballistic tip then the ant would be dispatched humanly. Therefore you couldn't have killed the ant unless you were wearing highheels. Confess! :) Shok
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 11:07:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArchersGrin: I hurt someones feelings once. Dscott beat me to it.......anyone guess the movie?
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Ronin
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 11:08:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 11:13:15 AM EDT
Killed a six-pack last night! I have killed 2 animals with a .223. In both cases I was using Remington 55gr PSP factory ammo. The first was a squirrel. The second was a deer (head shot). I don't hunt with a .223 anymore, now I use a .308. Older and wiser......
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 11:13:39 AM EDT
I have taken a few whitetails with my 243, using 85g Sierra HP BT, (loaded up pretty hot) Woodchucks, I have taken with my 243, 223(Rem700), 6mm, 222, even got one with my 445 supermag[:O] Since we can't use a semi or a fmj in PA for hunting, I havent shot any woodchucks with my AR15, XM193, or 69g SMKs. But my 243 w/ 58g VMAX make the biggest holes in woodchucks. I did recently got a 40XB in a 220 swift, I havent worked up any loads for it yet, but I cant wait to take that out for woodchucks. The person who I bought it from had some 55g spitzers and some 55g Nosler BT loaded up for it, the noslers w/4064 shot a few nice one hole groups. I am pretty confident that that load in this rifle will play a good role in reducing the woodchuck population on the farm[;)]
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 11:17:49 AM EDT
I have dispatched my share of critters and I believe that larger animals are best hunted with larger bullets. I have shot them with the smaller stuff and while I may get some pretty good wounds, they just are not as quick and humane as the larger bullets. I am glad that someone is having good luck with Nosler 100 gr. .243s. I once shot a 100 lb. deer at point blank range with one. It went through the heart, but the deer ran several hundred yards with no sign of any problem before stopping at the end of a pasture. I usually hunt anything as large as deer with a 30.06 or maybe a .308. The reason is that a deer is four legged and the bullet may have to travel a good ways through the animal. I shot one head on just under the throat once with a 30.06 and the bullet went the full length of the animal. A small bullet will not do that.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 11:34:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 1:16:17 PM EDT
I've killed time!..........As a matter of fact. I'm killing it right now! [;D]
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 1:43:28 PM EDT
I have killed a caribou, five deer, hundred of birds and thousands of insects. You guys oughtta see what a .243 does to a deer at close range. Its effective, but it wastes meat.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 1:50:55 PM EDT
I've killed everything from birds to bugs to fish to cats to 1 POS pitbull that chewed up my wife to deer to turkeys to fish to rodents of every description. The most satisfying shot was that goddamn dog.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 1:52:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 1:52:30 PM EDT
I once shot a chipmunk just 'cuz it looked at me funny.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 1:53:09 PM EDT
So umm... Exactly what type of "job" do you need done? I have standard rates and discounts to AR15.com members. E-mail me..... Sgt(A-Team)ar15
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 1:55:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2002 1:56:45 PM EDT by gus]
White tails: 3 with shotgun/rifled slug, 4 with .50 cal black powder, 1 with a bow (not some fancy compound bow either - it was an old laminated recurve). Squirrels: Many with .22 LR Doves: Many Ducks: 2 Dogs: 1 Cats: 2 Wild Boar (not feral hog): 1 with a .45 Govt model, 230gr. ball ammo. Ground Hogs: Many with .222 Magnum Rabid Raccoon: 1 with a 12ga shotgun
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 1:57:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 1:58:53 PM EDT
Most of my clinical knowledge came from here: [url]http://www.fen-net.de/norbert.arnoldi/army/wound.html[/url] [url]http://www.bobtuley.com/terminal.htm[/url] [url]http://www.ammo-oracle.com/[/url] Scott
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 3:07:05 PM EDT
In an indirect way, I've killed a man.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 3:19:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Apie: I've killed time!..........As a matter of fact. I'm killing it right now! [;D]
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You beat me to it, I kill time here every night.[;d]
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 3:22:06 PM EDT
Deer- 22 I think 2 w/.50cal T/C blackdiamond black powder 5 w/ .350 Remington Mag. 1 w/Whitetail hunter bow all the rest with .270 Black Bear 1 w/ .350 Remington Mag Feral Hog 2 1 with .350 Remington mag the other with Remington 870 12g w/ slug Turkey 4 3 w/ Remington 870 12g 1 w/ .223 in Remington M7 Crap load of squirrels with .22lr and asorted 12 and 20 gauges Same from Rabbits 'yotes 5 2 w/ Ruger P94 .40 S&W 1 w/ .270 2 w/ .223 crap load of groundhogs 6mm remington .270 .223 P94 .40
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 3:29:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 3:33:14 PM EDT
I've shot deer with 7.62x39, not too effective. 16" barrel SKS at about 50 yards. Took the deer though. Had to use a follow up shot to finish him off. Young buck. I shot Bambi... that's what girls at my school told me. But they don't mind. Many Bambi's out there, huh? I'm using my Bushy M4A3 this year, hope to get a bigger harvest. Little brother wants a CETME, already has a Savage .30-'06. Dad uses a .30-30. All have taken deer. I'm gonna try to use my Thompson this year too. Last year I used a 1911, Norinco, borrowed it from a friend. That wasn't too effective at 60+ yards.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 3:40:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 3:46:09 PM EDT
Killed a bottle of Pepe Lopez in the desert once. Felt bad and will never do it again!
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 3:54:48 PM EDT
I probably should have worded my answer a little better. I know that in the hands of an experienced and self-disciplined hunter that a .243 is just fine. I hunted for years with a guide that used a 6mm Rem and he never had to shoot anything twice. The unsuspecting doe that I shot was at no more than six inches from my muzzle. I was more than unhappy watching it run several hundred yards after a heart shot. The difference is that a bigger bullet will suffice for a greater number of shots. I have seen deer quickly succumb to shots that I would not have thougth would have been fatal, but I don't reccomend any slob shots of course. I would not try it myself for a new Hummer and a date with Pam Anderson but I saw a home movie of some Rhodesian soldiers on elephant culling duty. They casually walked into a herd of elephants and began shooting them in the head with their .308s. You would have thougth that they were using RPGs. I could not believe their total confidence in their weapons when they were only yards at most from the very upset elephants.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 3:56:10 PM EDT
I probably should have worded my answer a little better. I know that in the hands of an experienced and self-disciplined hunter that a .243 is just fine. I hunted for years with a guide that used a 6mm Rem and he never had to shoot anything twice. The unsuspecting doe that I shot was at no more than six inches from my muzzle. I was more than unhappy watching it run several hundred yards after a heart shot. The difference is that a bigger bullet will suffice for a greater number of shots. I have seen deer quickly succumb to shots that I would not have thougth would have been fatal, but I don't reccomend any slob shots of course. I would not try it myself for a new Hummer and a date with Pam Anderson but I saw a home movie of some Rhodesian soldiers on elephant culling duty. They casually walked into a herd of elephants and began shooting them in the head with their .308s. You would have thougth that they were using RPGs. I could not believe their total confidence in their weapons when they were only yards at most from the very upset elephants.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 3:59:49 PM EDT
My fiancee has 'killed something' in the back of our truck right now. Looks like it might once have been a raccoon that tangled with a few million grains travelling at 60MPH. [BD]
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 4:00:48 PM EDT
Hmm - why do you want to know? I don't keep track of bags anymore, but I have got deer, elk, boar, groundhog, ground squirrel, rabbit, woodchuck, badger, horse (euthanasia,) cow, sheep (slaughter,) and human to my credit. Human kills were either self-defence or "under orders," and have been taken by firearm, blade, and H2H. What do you want to know? FFZ
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 4:18:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gun Guru: Every animal in texas I ve killed. Whather it flies, slides or walks. I was a big JOY HUNTER before. GG
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So that's why I didn't see anything when I was there last week! I've killed 2 and 4 legged stuff, .22lr, .32 flint, .75 roundball,.44 perc., 12Ga., .45, 5.56, and 7.62.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 4:19:56 PM EDT
I went on a magpie killing spree last year. Their screeching call really gets on my nerves, especially in the morning. I found out they're really fricking smart. Dont want to bore you with details, but I was amazed at their intelligence. I got 4 of them before one who got away warned all the other magpies to avoid my place.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 4:21:26 PM EDT
If someone says a .243 wont kill a deer, don't believe them. Itll kill em just fine. The problem is the bullets dont hold together as weel as other calibers, and you end up with lead in your meat.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 5:03:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack: If someone says a .243 wont kill a deer, don't believe them. Itll kill em just fine. The problem is the bullets dont hold together as weel as other calibers, and you end up with lead in your meat.
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Partitions, my friend. Partitions.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 5:26:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By Maynard: I just got home from groundhog hunting. Shot a very large male at 150 yards with my .17 rem using 30 grain Bergers and Varget. Never had an exit even at close range(under 30 yards) and when I pick up the 'hogs and shake them it sounds like a bag full of water. Speed does kill but BC rules.[:)]
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Ah, now I know why I like you so much--you know what "BC" means, and how important it is. My kinda people! Aim small, miss small. [;)]
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Ballistic Coefficient? What do I win?
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 5:34:20 PM EDT
I've killed a lot of somethings. They ALL tasted real yummy. AB
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 5:41:32 PM EDT
My latest kill was a moth crawling across my 100yd target. One shot one kill :) And the best part was I even had witnesses!
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 5:59:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 6:02:54 PM EDT
Winchester 105 grain balistic silvertip, in the box that says thin skinned game. Its overrated. Between the two of us, my brother and I have shot six deer with 7x57. All under fifty yards, all fist sized exit wholes. He has had sucess with the 7.62x39 with federal ammo, but the mini thirty is a POS, and it jammed on him twice. Lucky I was there with MY ruger (Mark 2). [:)]
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