[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Body armor (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/12/2013 5:41:33 AM EDT
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I am looking for some body armor for my prepping hobby if you will.
I see some us palm vests on midway for $299 that have a front and back plate. I also see they have the little molle loops. My question is, not being a military personnel, do most people buy a armor vest and wear another tactical vest over it, or do they outfit a armor vest to hold mags and what not? I want to have a layout like this in the end. Link to amazon I bought a membership so I could search for this topic, but failed. |
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First look in the body armor forum and read some of the body armor posts...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/10_Tactical_Gear.html Also I'd take a look at US Palm for a budget setup that gets good reviews. |
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Like everything else in the world.........what do you want it to do?
Soft is fine for pistol of course, plates for rifle, (and pistol) but come at a weight penalty and mobility sacrifice. Plates "should" be backed with soft armor and should ideally have some form of spall protection outside. You can protect from lots of threats, but you'll: A) pay money for quality. B) have a set up that weighs as much as a smart car C) have reduced mobility for an "all threats" set up like this. or D) have a compromise unit that will give you lower cost, reduced threat protection but can wear for extended periods of time and reasonable comfort (still hot and sweaty) like this 
Choose. |
| A Banshee and a pair of Guardian IVs is the best quality you can buy for the money, period. The price is extremely affordable and the equipment is all excellent. If you have a site-code for Midwest, the Guardian IVs are only $125 apiece. |
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Like everything else in the world.........what do you want it to do? Soft is fine for pistol of course, plates for rifle, (and pistol) but come at a weight penalty and mobility sacrifice. Plates "should" be backed with soft armor and should ideally have some form of spall protection outside. You can protect from lots of threats, but you'll: A) pay money for quality. B) have a set up that weighs as much as a smart car C) have reduced mobility for an "all threats" set up like this. https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwphK2hImUi2I4fJt1N_2x-EZqDeWh0scuRUbNZrXSXVz3HcLGgA or D) have a compromise unit that will give you lower cost, reduced threat protection but can wear for extended periods of time and reasonable comfort (still hot and sweaty) like this http://www.bulletproofbodyarmorhq.com/images/concealable1.JPG Choose. Excellent informational post! |
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All I really want to know is the preference between wearing two vests vs outfitting an armored vest. Are there good reasons to have two vests and be able to strip off all gear while retaining the armor? Again, what do you see as your threat? Rifle? Pistol? Both? what you asking for is a Ferrari that can tow a boat. 
Narrow down your threat and we can recommend a option. But to help, I would prefer a plate carrier with a level 2 soft on the inside if I was concerned with surviving a threat with a rifle and have my gear on the outside of the plate carrier. If I was just on beat patrol with no specific threat, I would want my level 3 soft armor in a molle carrier and gear on the outside. It's much cooler than an inside the shirt vest and has greater air flow to cool the sweat. in uniform I wear a level 2a vest. for bump in the night home protection (and if I had to wear a vest) it would be a plate carrier no soft armor under, with molle gear on the outside (maybe a mag or two and a way to hold flashlight and cell phone?) easy to put on quickly and covers most threats with obvious gaps in coverage like this: 
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All I really want to know is the preference between wearing two vests vs outfitting an armored vest. Are there good reasons to have two vests and be able to strip off all gear while retaining the armor? You could have a quick detach vest while retaining armor by using a Mayflower APC and a Mayflower Chest rig although that set-up will cost around $400 without plates or soft armor. Or you could do a cheaper vest with the US Palm and just put a battle belt together. This way you'd be able to carry a few extra rifle and pistol mags separate from the armor. |
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The US Palm vest is really small And let me tell you small feels like nothing when you're actually faced with a threat.
One day I went on a suspicious package call, "bomb in a box" type thing. When I actually came face to face with the package my body armor seemed like tissue paper, all I wanted was either an M1 Abrams tank or be 50 miles away..
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The US Palm vest is really small And let me tell you small feels like nothing when you're actually faced with a threat.
One day I went on a suspicious package call, "bomb in a box" type thing. When I actually came face to face with the package my body armor seemed like tissue paper, all I wanted was either an M1 Abrams tank or be 50 miles away.. That's true, I am saving to buy a bigger one myself. |
| Someone here had a plate carrier set up with the AR 500 plates, mag pouches and hydration. Said it weighed in at just over 50 pounds so keep that in mind if you are going to run anywhere. If you don't mind spending the money you can get this http://www.midwestarmor.com/Midwest%20Armor%20MASS%20III%20Body%20Armor%20Torso%20Plate.aspx Only weigh 3.5 pounds each and they float. |
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Tagged. How long will these last if used irregularly? I've been considering aquiring a level IIIa vest with optional plates, but would like my investment to last a lifetime. A IIIa vest will last your lifetime if it is stored properly and worn once in a while to the range or "light" training. where they tend to have shorter life spans is when you wear them daily, sweat in them regularly, flex and stress the fabric (like in daily patrol) and just hang them in your locker like a rented mule. We have old vests (IIa) that were never worn, in our locker room as spares, and look as good as the day they were purchased and we even shot one of them that was AT LEAST 15 years old, stopped everything except rifle rounds (of course). Manufacturers put the vest warranty at 5 years due to the above stresses and for lawyers. |
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What happens if you get shot in the face? Then all my problems are over.
Honestly, if I were to be shot (without body armor) I would prefer it to be in the head and kill me. Being shot in the torso SUCKS......................FOR A LONG TIME! even worse, shot in the guts. 
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I heartily recommend if you're buying something for an oh shit noise in the middle of the night moment, get one you can toss on quickly and just attach your pouches to the vest. The plate carriers the army uses had plastic buckles on the side. You could leave one side unfastened and just toss the thing on your shoulders and be ready to go in a few seconds.
I've worn a lot of different types of armor and the plate carrier with buckles instead of the cummerbund is my preferred. I would say the IBA style is not too bad as well, more coverage and it's put on just like a jacket. |
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What happens if you get shot in the face? Duh http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/113295536/Ballistic_Face_Mask_Half_.jpg You would definitely look like this after taking rounds wearing that..
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I heartily recommend if you're buying something for an oh shit noise in the middle of the night moment, get one you can toss on quickly and just attach your pouches to the vest. The plate carriers the army uses had plastic buckles on the side. You could leave one side unfastened and just toss the thing on your shoulders and be ready to go in a few seconds. I've worn a lot of different types of armor and the plate carrier with buckles instead of the cummerbund is my preferred. I would say the IBA style is not too bad as well, more coverage and it's put on just like a jacket. Yeah, I think an interceptor vest is the best for when you hear a bump in the night. Super easy and quick to put on and has lots of coverage. Hell, you can even leave on the pecker protector to protect your family jewells
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Tagged. How long will these last if used irregularly? I've been considering aquiring a level IIIa vest with optional plates, but would like my investment to last a lifetime. I shot some 25 year old soft body armor. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1481388_Shot_some_25_year_old_soft_body_armor_today___Lots_of_pics.html |
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The females all have US Palm Defenders in my family. My son has an SKD PIG. I have an Eagle Maritime CIRAS, which I'm also using here right now. They are all fine in their own way. The US Palms are better than nothing (like pink .22's) but the coverage sucks. lots of ways bullets can find their way to vital organs with all of the non-coverage. threats (and bullets) don't always strike full frontal. |
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The females all have US Palm Defenders in my family. My son has an SKD PIG. I have an Eagle Maritime CIRAS, which I'm also using here right now. They are all fine in their own way. The US Palms are better than nothing (like pink .22's) but the coverage sucks. lots of ways bullets can find their way to vital organs with all of the non-coverage. threats (and bullets) rarely strike full frontal. My wife is 5 foot, 100 lbs., and the daughter 5'6, 110. It provides plenty of coverage for them. I also have plates to install in them if the threat warrants. Not perfect by any means, but better than nothing. |
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Stupid question Would I be better getting Ceramic plates or steel plates with anti-spalling coating? I feel like steel would be better but possibly heavier The steel is NOT better. Don't let anyone tell you differently. The ceramic plates that I posted a link to are NIJ certified and will stop nearly all threats you could ever reasonably expect to encounter (and some unreasonable ones as well). Steel cannot claim that, yet it weighs more. Unless you have an armor budget of around $100 (which means you should be buying something other than armor, like... food), there is no justification for buying steel. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Stupid question Would I be better getting Ceramic plates or steel plates with anti-spalling coating? I feel like steel would be better but possibly heavier The steel is NOT better. Don't let anyone tell you differently. The ceramic plates that I posted a link to are NIJ certified and will stop nearly all threats you could ever reasonably expect to encounter (and some unreasonable ones as well). Steel cannot claim that, yet it weighs more. Unless you have an armor budget of around $100 (which means you should be buying something other than armor, like... food), there is no justification for buying steel. From what I have seen the steel can take way more hits than the ceramic |
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Stupid question Would I be better getting Ceramic plates or steel plates with anti-spalling coating? I feel like steel would be better but possibly heavier The steel is NOT better. Don't let anyone tell you differently. The ceramic plates that I posted a link to are NIJ certified and will stop nearly all threats you could ever reasonably expect to encounter (and some unreasonable ones as well). Steel cannot claim that, yet it weighs more. Unless you have an armor budget of around $100 (which means you should be buying something other than armor, like... food), there is no justification for buying steel. oh look the resident steel armor hater. op- Steel is ok but understand it's limitations: 1-needs spall protection- check out targetman's plates in the inustry forum 2-heavy ~8-9 pounds a plate 3-May or may not stop m193 at 25 yards or less (still havent seen enough testing done on this Other than that it is pretty cheap for a set and they get the job done. It would work fine for bump in the night situations |
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When you're ready for big boy plates, buy from this guy right here on Arf:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_2/541_The_Target_Man__AR500_Steel_Targets_andamp__Armor.html |
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Stupid question Would I be better getting Ceramic plates or steel plates with anti-spalling coating? I feel like steel would be better but possibly heavier The steel is NOT better. Don't let anyone tell you differently. The ceramic plates that I posted a link to are NIJ certified and will stop nearly all threats you could ever reasonably expect to encounter (and some unreasonable ones as well). Steel cannot claim that, yet it weighs more. Unless you have an armor budget of around $100 (which means you should be buying something other than armor, like... food), there is no justification for buying steel. From what I have seen the steel can take way more hits than the ceramic Way more hits of what? M193? M2AP? 7.62x54R SC? No. A good level IV ceramic can withstand all of those, or 10+ rounds of M855, 6+ rounds of .308, and so on while weighing less and costing only a small amount more. |
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Stupid question Would I be better getting Ceramic plates or steel plates with anti-spalling coating? I feel like steel would be better but possibly heavier The steel is NOT better. Don't let anyone tell you differently. The ceramic plates that I posted a link to are NIJ certified and will stop nearly all threats you could ever reasonably expect to encounter (and some unreasonable ones as well). Steel cannot claim that, yet it weighs more. Unless you have an armor budget of around $100 (which means you should be buying something other than armor, like... food), there is no justification for buying steel. oh look the resident steel armor hater. op- Steel is ok but understand it's limitations: 1-needs spall protection- check out targetman's plates in the inustry forum 2-heavy ~8-9 pounds a plate 3-May or may not stop m193 at 25 yards or less (still havent seen enough testing done on this Other than that it is pretty cheap for a set and they get the job done. It would work fine for bump in the night situations I'm not quite a steel armor hater, but close. If someone truly understands steel vs ceramic, including what each stops, spalling, weight, and so on and they still choose steel, that's their decision. I also don't disagree with your assessment, except that I have never had AR500 stop M193 within 20 yards. |
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When you're ready for big boy plates, buy from this guy right here on Arf: http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_2/541_The_Target_Man__AR500_Steel_Targets_andamp__Armor.html Why don't you define "big boy plates" for us? 
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Stupid question Would I be better getting Ceramic plates or steel plates with anti-spalling coating? I feel like steel would be better but possibly heavier The steel is NOT better. Don't let anyone tell you differently. The ceramic plates that I posted a link to are NIJ certified and will stop nearly all threats you could ever reasonably expect to encounter (and some unreasonable ones as well). Steel cannot claim that, yet it weighs more. Unless you have an armor budget of around $100 (which means you should be buying something other than armor, like... food), there is no justification for buying steel. From what I have seen the steel can take way more hits than the ceramic Way more hits of what? M193? M2AP? 7.62x54R SC? No. A good level IV ceramic can withstand all of those, or 10+ rounds of M855, 6+ rounds of .308, and so on while weighing less and costing only a small amount more. The right AR500 steel can take literally hundreds of rounds without penetration. Ceramic materials will fail much sooner. They are incredibly fragile -- try dropping one sometime, then put it back in your plate carrier and trust your life to it. Go ahead. I'll wait. 
The weight difference is negligible compared to the performance advantage, especially on a prepper budget. Ceramic plates run from 5 to 8 pounds each. AR500 is right around 8 pounds (10x12). Add a few ounces for anti-fragmentation. Here's a good simplified comparison chart. The real weight winners are some of the new polymer plates coming out. They are FAR more expensive than even good ceramic plates right now. Maybe when prices come down and the technology matures they'll be able to compete with steel and ceramic for civilian use. There's absolutely nothing wrong with steel armor. |
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The right AR500 steel can take literally hundreds of rounds without penetration. Ceramic materials will fail much sooner. They are incredibly fragile -- try dropping one sometime, then put it back in your plate carrier and trust your life to it. Go ahead. I'll wait.
They are nowhere near as fragile as people make them out to be. The fact that AR500 can take "hundreds of rounds" is irrelevant, since the spall liner -- assuming it has a spall liner -- will be gone and you would look like you just fucked an angry porcupine from all the metal splatter. The weight difference is negligible compared to the performance advantage, especially on a prepper budget. Ceramic plates run from 5 to 8 pounds each. AR500 is right around 8 pounds (10x12). Add a few ounces for anti-fragmentation. 14.6 lbs vs 17.6 pounds is not negligible. Not even close. The real weight winners are some of the new polymer plates coming out. They are FAR more expensive than even good ceramic plates right now. Maybe when prices come down and the technology matures they'll be able to compete with steel and ceramic for civilian use. I agree with you 100% on this. Plates like the MASS III or polymer-ceramic hybrids are the best plates on the market right now but they are much more expensive. There's absolutely nothing wrong with steel armor. If a person understands it's limitations. |
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Quoted: 400 bucks a plate but goddam, only 3 pounds? Someone here had a plate carrier set up with the AR 500 plates, mag pouches and hydration. Said it weighed in at just over 50 pounds so keep that in mind if you are going to run anywhere. If you don't mind spending the money you can get this http://www.midwestarmor.com/Midwest%20Armor%20MASS%20III%20Body%20Armor%20Torso%20Plate.aspx Only weigh 3.5 pounds each and they float.  I have an AR500 setup front/back right now. It's no where near 50 pounds, but it's certainly not pleasant to wear. Add three mags in the front and the 50 oz water in the back and yeah... It's a SHTF setup until I get the budget for a full coverage IIIA vest with at least a front plate. For quality shit, plus plate, it's bound to be ~1k. But this is my life we're talking about here, so I'll get over it. |
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400 bucks a plate but goddam, only 3 pounds? Someone here had a plate carrier set up with the AR 500 plates, mag pouches and hydration. Said it weighed in at just over 50 pounds so keep that in mind if you are going to run anywhere. If you don't mind spending the money you can get this http://www.midwestarmor.com/Midwest%20Armor%20MASS%20III%20Body%20Armor%20Torso%20Plate.aspx Only weigh 3.5 pounds each and they float.
I have an AR500 setup front/back right now. It's no where near 50 pounds, but it's certainly not pleasant to wear. Add three mags in the front and the 50 oz water in the back and yeah... It's a SHTF setup until I get the budget for a full coverage IIIA vest with at least a front plate. For quality shit, plus plate, it's bound to be ~1k. But this is my life we're talking about here, so I'll get over it. That sounds painfully heavy.
And yeah, you're looking at around $850 minimum for a good quality III-A vest and one plate. Best of luck in upgrading soon. As you said, it's your life. |
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The puches go on the armor carrier. Chest rigs are for when youre not wearing armor. A simple plate carrier like a banshee or a PIG with level 3 plates will cover the needs of most civilians. So in a way you are saying "get both"? I was thinking that there would be a benefit from putting on two vests (a 'tactical' and an armored). But from what you are all saying is that most don't do that. They either outfit the armor vest or they have some toe of suspender/belt gig that holds mags, etc. |
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The puches go on the armor carrier. Chest rigs are for when youre not wearing armor. A simple plate carrier like a banshee or a PIG with level 3 plates will cover the needs of most civilians. So in a way you are saying "get both"? I was thinking that there would be a benefit from putting on two vests (a 'tactical' and an armored). But from what you are all saying is that most don't do that. They either outfit the armor vest or they have some toe of suspender/belt gig that holds mags, etc. Think it out. Are you ever going to want to put on whatever tactical stuff you use to carry your magazines without wearing armor? Then get a chest rig. You can also carry beer in it. Is your armor just there in case you have to defend your home? Put the pouches on it, it's faster. Simplicity is usually the best path. |