Posted: 10/16/2002 6:20:54 AM EDT
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CNN is getting ready to do a segment on cililian sniper training. Is it nesessecary?? Watch out training facilities!!! 10:12 AM eastern |
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I dont see the point in ANY training facility teaching ANYONE outside of "Special Operations Personnel" from eather Law Enforcement or Military, i.e. SWAT/SF operators. Marksmanship is one thing but the "field craft" of being a true "sniper" is not something I would like to know that just anyone is being taught. Kinda like "learning to fly big planes and not being interisted in how to take off or land them", ya know?? I went thru the USMC course as a LE SWAT Scout/Sniper and there was a very through background check done before I was accepted. It was an awesome school! Some might argue that I just learned things that I should have already known, growing up in western N.C. and deer hunting. But thats where I grew up and I did deer hunt and made some good long shots. But I never learned how to do some of the things the Marines taught me to do with my bolt gun! I think civilian "marksmanship" classes are fine, a great Amreican Tradition. But not "sniper" courses. Just my 2 cents... |
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Quoted: I think women in the home are fine, a great Amreican Tradition. But not out in public or in the voting booth. Just my 2 cents... j/k [:D] I think that if there is some kind of 'knowledge' that someone wants (that is all training is) and someone is willing to supply it then good for them. That's what it's all about. Don't take away my options because you don't like it. -Nuke |
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Quoted: I dont see the point in ANY training facility teaching ANYONE outside of "Special Operations Personnel" from eather Law Enforcement or Military, i.e. SWAT/SF operators. Marksmanship is one thing but the "field craft" of being a true "sniper" is not something I would like to know that just anyone is being taught. Kinda like "learning to fly big planes and not being interisted in how to take off or land them", ya know?? I went thru the USMC course as a LE SWAT Scout/Sniper and there was a very through background check done before I was accepted. It was an awesome school! Some might argue that I just learned things that I should have already known, growing up in western N.C. and deer hunting. But thats where I grew up and I did deer hunt and made some good long shots. But I never learned how to do some of the things the Marines taught me to do with my bolt gun! I think civilian "marksmanship" classes are fine, a great Amreican Tradition. But not "sniper" courses. Just my 2 cents... Well, so much for the idea of a "citizen militia". Note this guys username. Another example of the fine job our govt. "education" system is doing... |
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Quoted: I dont see the point in ANY training facility teaching ANYONE outside of "Special Operations Personnel" from eather Law Enforcement or Military, i.e. SWAT/SF operators. Marksmanship is one thing but the "field craft" of being a true "sniper" is not something I would like to know that just anyone is being taught. Kinda like "learning to fly big planes and not being interisted in how to take off or land them", ya know?? I went thru the USMC course as a LE SWAT Scout/Sniper and there was a very through background check done before I was accepted. It was an awesome school! Some might argue that I just learned things that I should have already known, growing up in western N.C. and deer hunting. But thats where I grew up and I did deer hunt and made some good long shots. But I never learned how to do some of the things the Marines taught me to do with my bolt gun! I think civilian "marksmanship" classes are fine, a great Amreican Tradition. But not "sniper" courses. Just my 2 cents... I thank you for your service to our great democracy. I agree that civilians should be limited to basic deer hunting instruction and teaching anything beyond that should fall under the treason and sedition laws. |
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Quoted: I dont see the point in ANY training facility teaching ANYONE outside of "Special Operations Personnel" from eather Law Enforcement or Military, i.e. SWAT/SF operators. Marksmanship is one thing but the "field craft" of being a true "sniper" is not something I would like to know that just anyone is being taught. Kinda like "learning to fly big planes and not being interisted in how to take off or land them", ya know?? I think civilian "marksmanship" classes are fine, a great Amreican Tradition. But not "sniper" courses. Just my 2 cents... I think you're really overcharging for your opinions... |
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Quoted: I dont see the point in ANY training facility teaching ANYONE outside of "Special Operations Personnel" from eather Law Enforcement or Military, i.e. SWAT/SF operators. Marksmanship is one thing but the "field craft" of being a true "sniper" is not something I would like to know that just anyone is being taught. Kinda like "learning to fly big planes and not being interisted in how to take off or land them", ya know?? I think civilian "marksmanship" classes are fine, a great Amreican Tradition. But not "sniper" courses. Just my 2 cents... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All the precision rifle classes I have taken required letters from the local Police Dept before you can attend. There are usually 2 shooting classes that must be taken as prerequisites before any "field craft" classes are taught. I think that way a reputable school can evaluate the student's mindset before moving on to more advanced skills. There is nothing that I have learned at these classes that I did not already know. They have just helped me refine my skills. TonyM |
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Quoted: Quoted: Well, so much for the idea of a "citizen militia". Note this guys username. Another example of the fine job our govt. "education" system is doing... FYI, we call our shortgunners door kickers in the military. Not everything has to be some evil "JBT" related plot. -SARguy [(:)] |
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Quoted: I dont see the point in ANY training facility teaching ANYONE outside of "Special Operations Personnel" from eather Law Enforcement or Military, i.e. SWAT/SF operators. Marksmanship is one thing but the "field craft" of being a true "sniper" is not something I would like to know that just anyone is being taught. Kinda like "learning to fly big planes and not being interisted in how to take off or land them", ya know?? I went thru the USMC course as a LE SWAT Scout/Sniper and there was a very through background check done before I was accepted. It was an awesome school! Some might argue that I just learned things that I should have already known, growing up in western N.C. and deer hunting. But thats where I grew up and I did deer hunt and made some good long shots. But I never learned how to do some of the things the Marines taught me to do with my bolt gun! I think civilian "marksmanship" classes are fine, a great Amreican Tradition. But not "sniper" courses. Just my 2 cents... Mr. KoorDicker, You're funny...no wait, you're scarry. How about no private ownership of "SNIPER", varmint or AR type rifles. While we're at it, no more defensive carbine classes either. [b]Knowledge does not make a man a monster![/b] |
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Quoted: I dont see the point in ANY training facility teaching ANYONE outside of "Special Operations Personnel" from eather Law Enforcement or Military, i.e. SWAT/SF operators. Marksmanship is one thing but the "field craft" of being a true "sniper" is not something I would like to know that just anyone is being taught. Kinda like "learning to fly big planes and not being interisted in how to take off or land them", ya know?? I went thru the USMC course as a LE SWAT Scout/Sniper and there was a very through background check done before I was accepted. It was an awesome school! Some might argue that I just learned things that I should have already known, growing up in western N.C. and deer hunting. But thats where I grew up and I did deer hunt and made some good long shots. But I never learned how to do some of the things the Marines taught me to do with my bolt gun! I think civilian "marksmanship" classes are fine, a great Amreican Tradition. But not "sniper" courses. Just my 2 cents... Thank you for making this decision for me DoorKicker. I may have tried to learn and only hurt someone.[8)] |
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Woooooooh! Hold on guys. Dont hang me here, or worse, label me BATF!! I'm very pro-gun. I'm not saying that people shouldnt own any certain types of rifles eather, I NEVER SAID THAT! The crime bill was the worse thing that has happen to our country up untill NAFTA. I'm only saying that the training that SEAL, DELTA, MARINE or even Police Snipers get should'nt be available to just anybody with money. You should have a need for that type training. If you have then need, then train on. I do agree that getting training is expanding ones knowledge. BUT learning to be a professional sniper it not like learning to fly a model plane, its learning how to effectively hunt and kill another human. Outside of war or the VERY limited law enforcement role, there is no place sniper craft should be employed in a peaceful socity. And who, besides someone who might HAVE to kill another because of duty, would want to learn this. For what real world reasons? I do my job to SAVE lives. To SAVE LIVES ONLY!!! I am a Christian, I love my country and cherish the 2nd amendment. My family collect firearms, hunt and two of my uncles even have class 3 licenses. I go to every local gun show I can. If not to buy, then just to look and meet other pro-gun people. Most I have met are level headed Christian people. So please dont label me "anti-gun anything". And like, I think, someone here has already pointed out. This guy isnt a sniper. His longest shot has only been around 75 yards. The PRESS labeled him a sniper. I'll bet when he's caught they will learn he's never been a trained marksman of anykind. He's a MURDERER. And I'm sorry if I offened any of you with my opinion. I didnt mean to. Its just what I think. P.S. As for who ever it was picking at my username, "DoorKicker6". I was on entry and used a Benelli shotgun for a long time before they figured out I could shoot a rifle. Yes I do wear a badge, and sometimes I wear black and kick in doors! NO APOLOGIES! And the #6 is to signify that I've moved to the cover position! Flame and Hang away fellas.... DoorKicker6 |
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Quoted: I dont see the point in ANY training facility teaching ANYONE outside of "Special Operations Personnel" from eather Law Enforcement or Military, i.e. SWAT/SF operators. Marksmanship is one thing but the "field craft" of being a true "sniper" is not something I would like to know that just anyone is being taught. Kinda like "learning to fly big planes and not being interisted in how to take off or land them", ya know?? I went thru the USMC course as a LE SWAT Scout/Sniper and there was a very through background check done before I was accepted. It was an awesome school! Some might argue that I just learned things that I should have already known, growing up in western N.C. and deer hunting. But thats where I grew up and I did deer hunt and made some good long shots. But I never learned how to do some of the things the Marines taught me to do with my bolt gun! I think civilian "marksmanship" classes are fine, a great Amreican Tradition. But not "sniper" courses. Just my 2 cents... why? afraid someone might track you down and pop you in the head for kicking in the wrong door? |
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DoorKicker... You scare me... Just what the hell are you afraid of? You seem to put on that you are as brainwashed as most people are. I guess you dont realize that killing people is already illegal? Who givs a shit what someone else wants to learn? Who are you to tell ME what I can and cannot do? Why do assume someone with this type of knowlage is going to automaticly go out and kill for the hell of it? Thats the same as saying "well you own assault rifles so you must enjoy killing people because that is what there designed for." I guess you feel that no one else beside those of you in the LE are competent enough to receve that type of training and be able to make a desision as to what to do about it>? Here is something you dont seem to realize just like what was stated by A frontsite instructer last night on CNN.. "If they want the training bad enough theyll get it" One way or another if someone is that bent on killing people theyll find a way. It doesnt matter what sorce thier knowlage comes from? Or maby you like to feel "special" that you have access to something most people dont? So that you can hold it over someones head because you have something some else doesnt have or cant get? Does that make you better? [RANT OFF] Flame way |
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Sorry DoorKicker6, I'm going to have to agree with the rest on this one. While I totally understand your point, and it's a little frightening to think of some crazy skinhead signing up for sniper classes like this, I don't think I'm any more comfortable with that pussy Lon Horiuchi learning it either. It smacks too much of an elite class of "haves" vs a class of have nots. kind of like an Intellectual Gun Ban. You make a great point in that sniper training is specifically for killing people and you want to limit that kind of training but it's false logic. If you get right down to it, basically every word we speak on these boards are about killing people. The 2nd Amendment we cherish and fight to protect is about killing people. You and I know it's not about duck hunting. So limiting access to sniper schools to military and LE only is as bad or worse than banning high cap clips, assault rifles and class III's. Everyone should have full access to them. That being said, I *believe* (warning;unresearched wild ass guess to follow) that most of the sniper schools in the country will be self policing. much like the flight schools that tried to alert authorities that they had some suspicious dudes trying to learn how to crash planes. I think most sniper schools would quietly report anything out of the ordinary to the appropriate alphabet agency. Kudos on your career and thanks for all the sacrifices you make in your job doorkicker but I'm going to have to camp with the great unwashed masses on this one. Besides, as we've already seen. You don't need any specialized training to run around with a rifle and terrorize a whole city. This is a murderer with a $249.00 sar-3 [alegedly]. He's not a sniper and limiting access to classes will never stop this kind of attack. I just can't wait for the copycats **sholes to start. hang tough DC. Sooner or later the perp will realize that his gun is illegal there and stop killing people. My prayers go out to victims of this killer. Matt CrashBurnRepeat |
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DoorKicker6... I'm sure you're a fine guy, and I'm glad to have you here, but I disagree with you completely. In my eyes, you're making the common mistake of "I have it but I don't want you to have it". You are in a position of authority, but your authority is entrusted to you by the very people you wish to deny a basic right - the right to be able to defend themselves. Knowledge [b]is[/b] power. |
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Last post on this one from me, you guys win, I'm tired of being the whipping boy here. I DONT have the "I have something you don't" thing going on. I teach at the local police academy and I love to encourage young officers who want to become a part of SWAT. I was at the gun show in Charlotte this past weekend and saw some of my students. They had came on my reccomendation that firearms are a big part of the job and it could be a learning experence to go to a gun show. If you want to be a sniper then fine. Go ahead, whatever trips your trigger. And you are right, that this would have happened without the person getting any training. I have already stated, I dont think he has had any. But what if he had?? Can you think how much worse this all would be if this guy WAS a real trained sniper? What if he could engage at 600+ yards. Remember the few in history and how many they killed in one incident? Thats all I'm saying. Flame away at me. DoorKicker6 over and out........... |