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Posted: 10/14/2002 5:37:58 PM EDT
The Michael Moore film has been out for nearly a month, and I realize that the distribution is quite limited at this time (Not screening anywhere in CO yet), but I wonder why it has not even been mentioned on this site. (Or maybe it has been a hot topic for ages, and I've just not been aware of it.) Have any of you guys seen it? Pass along a critique? I'm sure that I'll see the film in any case, but I'd like to know what the guys and gals on this site thought about it. Do tell. Thanks, IMHO
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 5:40:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 5:43:06 PM EDT
There's been at least two other threads on this. If search were working, I'd link the one I started.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 5:44:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 5:47:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2002 5:49:28 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 5:49:46 PM EDT
It's playing near me at the Angelika but I haven't been able to work up the nerve to see it yet. Ironically, I did catch the last 45 mins of Roger and Me today, with his smug overnarration.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 5:51:10 PM EDT
Unless he has residency in the state the bank was in I think the gun would have had to go to an FFL in his home state. At least that's what the rest of us have to do. Ed
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 5:53:11 PM EDT
[img]santyth.home.mindspring.com/trailer.jpg[/img] I'm not going to be seeing any of these movies, thank you very much. If you want to watch the trailer and be pissed off though, go to [url]www.apple.com/trailers/[/url]
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 5:54:05 PM EDT
I wanted to see it also, but I wasn't sure if it was going to be an anti gun movie or a pro gun movie or just a whacko movie so I figured that I would wait until a few people here mentioned it and I would take it from there.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 5:57:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SHIVAN: Unless he has residency in the state the bank was in I think the gun would have had to go to an FFL in his home state. At least that's what the rest of us have to do. Ed
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Im an official Md resident, but I buy long guns all the time in DE. And I dont have a Bank account in DE. I am prety sure its 100% legal to do so.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 6:11:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2002 6:18:50 PM EDT by Magic]
I have read several reviews and he flops and flails over the causes of the high violent crime rate in the U.S. The following facts are never mentioned because in is not politically correct. It isn't about guns, movies, or games. What is it about? I can't tell you the solution, but I can tell you where we need to focus our efforts. If you look at homicide, [url=http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01%2D5.pdf]12.9%[/url] of the population is involved with [url=http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/oracetab.htm]57%[/url] of homicides. And to break it down even further, [url=http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/proportiontab.htm]1.1%[/url] of the population is involved with 27% of the homicides. Any sane group, organization, or institution would focus their efforts in these areas, but not in the U.S. It is effectively ignored. If you just look at the above problem, that still leaves the U.S. with a higher homicide rate than most other industrialized countries. If you look at the increase in homicide in the U.S. during [url=http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/homrate1.htm]prohibition[/url] and apply that to the current war on drugs, then you will get around a 25% - 30% increase in homicide rate due to the war on drugs. If you remove the homicides from the [url=http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01%2D5.pdf]12.9%[/url] of the population and normalize the homicide rate to take into account the war on drugs, then the homicide rate is inline with many other industrialized nations.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 6:21:39 PM EDT
Yeah, this dolt is nothing but a left wing anti-gunner. I saw the TV special on it this past weekend. What happened with the bank was the bank was giving away shotguns when you opened a CD with them. Anyhow, the dolt was trying to make it appear that it was illegal. What dolt did to do this was when the banker was explaining how to do the transfer (the bank is an FFL), he cuts him off before he says that you must be a resident of the state and fill out a 4473 with NICS check. The special I saw actually went to the bank and asked them and that is their side of the story, one which I believe, not some shithead is trying to make money off of what happened in CO. I wouldn't waste your time or money on the POS.
I saw one post that theorized that it might have been illegal when he got a shotgun in another state without an FFL by opening a bank account (and promptly made smug "what dumb shits these guys are" faces at the camera while the nice bank guy stood there like a smiling deer in the headlights).
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Link Posted: 10/14/2002 6:22:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Magic: I have read several reviews and he flops and flails over the causes of the high violent crime rate in the U.S. The following facts are never mentioned because in is not politically correct. It isn't about guns, movies, or games. What is it about? I can't tell you the solution, but I can tell you where we need to focus our efforts. If you look at homicide, [url=http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01%2D5.pdf]12.9%[/url] of the population is involved with [url=http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/oracetab.htm]57%[/url] of homicides. And to break it down even further, [url=http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/proportiontab.htm]1.1%[/url] of the population is involved with 27% of the homicides. Any sane group, organization, or institution would focus their efforts in these areas, but not in the U.S. It is effectively ignored. . .
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Is this post really as grossly racist as it appears to be? A "sane group, organization, or institution would focus their efforts" on WHAT? Maybe you meant to post this in another thread, or on another board?
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 7:00:23 PM EDT
IMHO, facts are facts. There was a really good article about this topic in a recent issue of the California Rifle and Pistol Association newsletter. It basically stated if you remove the group of people Magic is alluding to in his post from the crime statistics, the homicide rate in the US would be lower than in Europe. Like Magic said, a very small minority is committing the majority of gun related crime and the rest of us are paying for it through increased anti-gun legislation. I see nothing racist in listing those facts. Let's not be PC about it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 7:28:11 PM EDT
Of course, this thread, the one of which I am the original author, is an inquiry about a film, not a solicitation for one's opinions on demographic trends in violent crime. I see the same numbers, although I can't draw a firm conclusion. Much plays into the murderous tendencies. Not sure why the stats were posted on [i]this[/i] thread, or why magic cites a reference that doesn't support his numbers. Tough to deal with these sort of massaged statistics. Yes, one could maniuplate the data to make all sorts of claims. If magic would like to start his own thread in which he discusses his view of the problem, then that'd be great. One assumes that he is an active member of at least one "sane group, organization, or institution" that has chosen to "focus their [sic] efforts in these areas. . . " I'm quite interested in hearing the product of this focus, but not here. None of this is appropriate, in a thread about "Bowling for Columbine." Is it? (Again, I haven't yet seen the film. . .maybe magic has, and is making a comment that I would only understand in that context.)
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 7:38:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 7:45:08 PM EDT
82ndAbn, OK, I guess that I'll just have to see it. Thanks
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 7:46:05 PM EDT
[url]http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0310793/bowling_for_columbine_1.jpg[/url] He sure looks like a real winner to me. Hey, is that rifle a .223?
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 8:05:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2002 8:16:00 PM EDT by mattja]
Here's an interview with the asshole. [url]www.abc.net.au/arts/film/stories/s654932.htm[/url] His agenda is quite clear. * We don't need guns. * The NRA was once a shooting sports organization but is now "a front for a right wing agenda." * Thanks to the media, people unjustly fear members of certain racial groups, which prompts them to buy guns for self defense unnecessarily. Quote: "Ultimately this film isn't about Columbine or even about guns. It's about our culture of fear and how that fear leads us to acts of violence, domestically and internationally." So, in a nutshell, the guy believes we are all simply paranoid. No one is out to do us harm, so we have no need for guns. He promotes the European point of view, and that is why he was up for an award at Cannes. Of course, on a larger scale the Europeans have the US to protect them, so of course they hold this childish point of view. I would add that he is quick to let filmmakers off the hook, stating he doesn't believe violent films prompt young people to commit crimes. Gee, isn't that [b]his[/b] business? But the NRA is evil, right? Note that United Artists decided to release the movie in very limited markets, so unless you live near a large, liberal city where this kind of bullshit is cherished, odds are you will have to wait until it's released on video to see it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 8:05:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IMHO: Is this post really as grossly racist as it appears to be? A "sane group, organization, or institution would focus their efforts" on WHAT? Maybe you meant to post this in another thread, or on another board?
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As long as people are repulsed by the truth, then the problem will never be solved. The reaction you had is [b]EXACTLY[/b] why nothing is done. People that are usually logical and rational freak out when you say something derrogatory about the black community. I put this statement in this thread because the movie is about the reasons for violence in the United States. My point is that the movie is complete BS. Everyone already knows the reasons for the high levels of violence. Everyone is too chicken shit to do anything about it. If you want to accuse someone of racism, then point your finger at the US Census bureau and the Department of Justice. That is where I got the information.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 8:22:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2002 8:23:57 PM EDT by IMHO]
Originally Posted By Magic: As long as people are repulsed by the truth, then the problem will never be solved. The reaction you had is [b]EXACTLY[/b] why nothing is done. People that are usually logical and rational freak out when you say something derrogatory about the black community. I put this statement in this thread because the movie is about the reasons for violence in the United States. My point is that the movie is complete BS. Everyone already knows the reasons for the high levels of violence. Everyone is too chicken shit to do anything about it. If you want to accuse someone of racism, then point your finger at the US Census bureau and the Department of Justice. That is where I got the information.
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Of course, I didn't accuse anyone of racism. I asked if your post was "as grossly racist as it appears to be." You can read the question again to make sure. Again, please start your own thread, and stop polluting this one with your diatribe. I suggest that your thread include: 1) "The truth" that you mentioned in your post. 2) "The reasons for the high levels of violence" 3) A suggestion for what ought to be done. 4) Where efforts ought to be focused 5) What you are doing about the problem as you see it. If you've got something to say, then step up, but not here, OK? Start another thread, please. I know that you're not "chicken shit," so step up.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 8:30:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:
Originally Posted By SHIVAN: Unless he has residency in the state the bank was in I think the gun would have had to go to an FFL in his home state. At least that's what the rest of us have to do. Ed
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Im an official Md resident, but I buy long guns all the time in DE. And I dont have a Bank account in DE. I am prety sure its 100% legal to do so.
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You can buy shoulder arm in a neighboring state. Handguns have to be purchased by residents of the state of purchase. Michael Moore also started the petition to make Wal*Mart stop selling ammo. There are threads tacked up in the "General Non-Glocking" forum on GlockTalk. I think it was mentioned here, too. Maybe can be found when "Search" comes back, if it does..... Scott
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 8:33:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: Michael Moore is the smartass kid in grade school who makes jokes at everyone else's expense until he finally gets beat up.
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...THEN SUES.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 8:37:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Magic: If you look at homicide, [url=http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01%2D5.pdf]12.9%[/url] of the population is involved with [url=http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/oracetab.htm]57%[/url] of homicides. And to break it down even further, [url=http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/proportiontab.htm]1.1%[/url] of the population is involved with 27% of the homicides. Any sane group, organization, or institution would focus their efforts in these areas, but not in the U.S. It is effectively ignored.
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Please spare Asian-american women your racist statistical inference.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 8:37:41 PM EDT
The Petitions: [url]http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107686[/url] Scott
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 10:12:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IMHO: Of course, I didn't accuse anyone of racism. I asked if your post was "as grossly racist as it appears to be." You can read the question again to make sure. Again, please start your own thread, and stop polluting this one with your diatribe. I suggest that your thread include: 1) "The truth" that you mentioned in your post. 2) "The reasons for the high levels of violence" 3) A suggestion for what ought to be done. 4) Where efforts ought to be focused 5) What you are doing about the problem as you see it. If you've got something to say, then step up, but not here, OK? Start another thread, please. I know that you're not "chicken shit," so step up.
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Sorry for "polluting" your thread with relevant facts about violence when the movie is about violence in America.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 10:24:46 PM EDT
Answered my own question, did a search on Yahoo and found the movie web sight and trailer. Perfect timing for the full release of the movie aint it.
Link Posted: 10/15/2002 11:49:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Magic:
Originally Posted By IMHO: Is this post really as grossly racist as it appears to be? A "sane group, organization, or institution would focus their efforts" on WHAT? Maybe you meant to post this in another thread, or on another board?
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As long as people are repulsed by the truth, then the problem will never be solved. The reaction you had is [b]EXACTLY[/b] why nothing is done. People that are usually logical and rational freak out when you say something derrogatory about the black community. I put this statement in this thread because the movie is about the reasons for violence in the United States. My point is that the movie is complete BS. Everyone already knows the reasons for the high levels of violence. Everyone is too chicken shit to do anything about it. If you want to accuse someone of racism, then point your finger at the US Census bureau and the Department of Justice. That is where I got the information.
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magic, Your reply to Hunter88's "Interesting Study" thread leads me to believe that your "solution" may rest on identifying the problems in the nurture, not nature, aspect of the violent crime disease. I'll trust that this is so. That is a correct assumption, isn't it?
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