Posted: 3/31/2013 5:10:57 PM EDT
| Does your range require you to provide the range board of directors verification of your Form 4(s) or Form 1(s) for you to be able to shoot there? Mine is a private range and it is within their right/ability to make a rule requiring such... But it would, at the minimum, require a list of class 3 weapon owners to be held in the range office paperwork. It just strikes me as bad juju to have a list of what I own to be out there to be lost or misplaced/misused. FWIW, range in question is the Bigfork Gun Club in MT. I think I will be letting my membership expire. This just doesn't feel like a good thing. |
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They ought to just list members names as "approved" for NFA after an initial paperwork check instead of keeping a copy of your actual paperwork. I see your issue with it. That is exactly what they want to do. Just a list of members w/ NFA, not copies of the forms. Maybe I am over reacting? |
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Quoted: Quoted: They ought to just list members names as "approved" for NFA after an initial paperwork check instead of keeping a copy of your actual paperwork. I see your issue with it. That is exactly what they want to do. Just a list of members w/ NFA, not copies of the forms. Maybe I am over reacting? Oh, well that sounds reasonable I guess. |
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I was under the impression that the only entity that could ask you for your papers was the ATF or another LEA.  Really its a Federal matter, not a State matter(as frankly all firearm issues should be due to the 2A..but that's another discussion). ATF and pretty much ATF alone. |
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I was under the impression that the only entity that could ask you for your papers was the ATF or another LEA. Really its a Federal matter, not a State matter(as frankly all firearm issues should be due to the 2A..but that's another discussion). ATF and pretty much ATF alone. The tax stamps make the form a tax return which is confidential, only ATF can ask to see it. You dont have to show anyone else. |
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I was under the impression that the only entity that could ask you for your papers was the ATF or another LEA. Really its a Federal matter, not a State matter(as frankly all firearm issues should be due to the 2A..but that's another discussion). ATF and pretty much ATF alone. The tax stamps make the form a tax return which is confidential, only ATF can ask to see it. You dont have to show anyone else. If you want to stay out of jail, yes you do. |
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Why I repeat, why do they need to retain them?????? Do you have 50 different Range Masters / Officers?
I carry copies. My local range has a one time requirement to review the forms upon request , not retain them - once you know the Range Master(s) its a done deal. Again Why? |
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I was under the impression that the only entity that could ask you for your papers was the ATF or another LEA. Really its a Federal matter, not a State matter(as frankly all firearm issues should be due to the 2A..but that's another discussion). ATF and pretty much ATF alone. The tax stamps make the form a tax return which is confidential, only ATF can ask to see it. You dont have to show anyone else. If you want to stay out of jail, yes you do. And you can happily be awarded for wrongful imprisonment if State/Local LE overstep their bounds. Intimidation doesn't automatically put someone in the right. |
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My range says whatever's legal is good to go. But they don't question you if it's legal. It's not their job. That's part of why I pay every year and drive that far. Same here, although some of my RO colleagues (the asshole division) think- despite directions to the contrary- it is their God-given duty to demand paperwork from the guys that shoot suppressed guns (we don't permit FA as most FA shooters can't seem to keep bullets in a 30' berm and we have a fish camp 1/4 mile down the road). Whenever I have to work with one of those yahoos, it is always interesting... No paperwork required (although it ain't a bad idea to have copies on hand). |
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I was under the impression that the only entity that could ask you for your papers was the ATF or another LEA. Really its a Federal matter, not a State matter(as frankly all firearm issues should be due to the 2A..but that's another discussion). ATF and pretty much ATF alone. The tax stamps make the form a tax return which is confidential, only ATF can ask to see it. You dont have to show anyone else. If you want to stay out of jail, yes you do. And you can happily be awarded for wrongful imprisonment if State/Local LE overstep their bounds. Intimidation doesn't automatically put someone in the right. Local LE would, IMO, be within their rights to detain you until they ascertained the legality of your NFA items. Not saying the should, mind you, but I think it'd be legal. I don't really have a problem with showing my paperwork but draw the line at giving them copies. |
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Don't you have to take the forms with you when you go to the range? I think you are supposed to have the form with you, however a photocopy seems to be okay. I am not certain of this. We never asked for it when I worked at a range. We were more interested in what cool stuff the guy had, and if he might let us play with his toys. We did talk to people when they had Class III guns. Once or twice we found dumbasses with unregistered SBRs. They were told to leave. |
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I was under the impression that the only entity that could ask you for your papers was the ATF or another LEA. Really its a Federal matter, not a State matter(as frankly all firearm issues should be due to the 2A..but that's another discussion). ATF and pretty much ATF alone. The tax stamps make the form a tax return which is confidential, only ATF can ask to see it. You dont have to show anyone else. If you want to stay out of jail, yes you do. Or even just go about your day shooting without a lot of huff & puff. I have zero problem showing my forms. |
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I was under the impression that the only entity that could ask you for your papers was the ATF or another LEA. Anyone can ask to see them. You don't have to show them to the gun club if you don't want to, tho. Nor do they have to let you shoot there. I wouldn't use a range that was run by nosy nellies like that, tho. |
| I worked as an RSO part time at a local range a few years ago. Guy asked if he could shoot an M4 on the pistol range. I said sure, no one is on the pistol range, go ahead. I was expecting an M4orgery. Guy comes out with a real deal, select fire 14.5" colt. I said " normally I keep to myself, but I would feel better if you had some credentials for that". He laughed, then showed me his ICE badge. I was a little nervous for a second until I saw the badge. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I was under the impression that the only entity that could ask you for your papers was the ATF or another LEA. Really its a Federal matter, not a State matter(as frankly all firearm issues should be due to the 2A..but that's another discussion). ATF and pretty much ATF alone. The tax stamps make the form a tax return which is confidential, only ATF can ask to see it. You dont have to show anyone else. If you want to stay out of jail, yes you do. And you can happily be awarded for wrongful imprisonment if State/Local LE overstep their bounds. Intimidation doesn't automatically put someone in the right. Local LE would, IMO, be within their rights to detain you until they ascertained the legality of your NFA items. Not saying the should, mind you, but I think it'd be legal. I don't really have a problem with showing my paperwork but draw the line at giving them copies. Just like if you are open carrying. The act of OC is reasonable proof that you dont have a CCW  |
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Some ranges ask to see my stamps but wouldnt know the difference between a form 4 or my grandma's cookie recipe.
Some ranges know what to look for and check that SN's match the form. Some could not care less. The range I like to shoot at checks and knows what they are looking for. They are polite, respectful and run a professional range that is distinctly lacking in the unsavory types. I understand that NFA is illegal in Texas, but being federally registered and compliant is a defense to prosecution, and keep color copies of my forms in all my range bags. Ranges have to deal with a shit ton of liability as it is, I sure dont blame any range owner from protecting their interests. When I open a range it will be NFA friendly, but if you dont posses or care to show your forms, be prepared to leave the fun stuff in your vehicle. |
