[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Samson Mfg (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 3/31/2013 5:05:02 AM EDT
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On March 25, 2013 Samson Manufacturing Corp. filed for relief under chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code. The filing was occasioned by a private dispute between Samson and one of its competitors, with whom Samson has been involved in lengthy litigation. Samson’s business remains strong and the company continues to grow. We do not anticipate any delay in filling orders or slowing down of our production lines. Our customers will continue to receive the responsiveness and quality they have come to expect from Samson Manufacturing. Please bear with us while we deliver a quick and well-deserved smackdown.
Scott Samson President Samson Mfg Call or email with any concerns |
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I just learned a lot right here:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/73270708/Troy-v-Samson-Manufacturing-et-al Go get em Troy. 
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I just learned a lot right here: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/73270708/Troy-v-Samson-Manufacturing-et-al Go get em Troy. Link no worky for me. 
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I just learned a lot right here: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/73270708/Troy-v-Samson-Manufacturing-et-al Go get em Troy. Link no worky for me. It's the court papers from Troy vs. Samson Manufacturing and your best friend Dick Swan. I'm not sure why it isn't working for you. Are you trying to view it on a cell phone? |
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how many different rail systems clamp to the barrel nut? how come troy isn't going after them. sounds more like they are bitter about a business relationship that broke down and this is retaliation. just my opinion. That's because you're not familiar with the back story. |
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how many different rail systems clamp to the barrel nut? how come troy isn't going after them. sounds more like they are bitter about a business relationship that broke down and this is retaliation. just my opinion. That's because you're not familiar with the back story. Link no workey. Back story? |
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I just learned a lot right here: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/73270708/Troy-v-Samson-Manufacturing-et-al Go get em Troy. Link no worky for me. It's the court papers from Troy vs. Samson Manufacturing and your best friend Dick Swan. I'm not sure why it isn't working for you. Are you trying to view it on a cell phone? I hate to see a Black Rifle Accessory Manufacturer pursuing legislation against a competitor, it seems like we should all be supporting each other in times like this when common interests trump personal matters.... but reading the filing, it's a stark reminder that this is a business. We don't know the whole story either, it seems like neither party could be judged fully honorable. Then there are the circumstances to consider; proprietary information and trade secrets when it comes to a Modular Rail System?? It's about as simple as a gun part gets. Can anyone here make an amateur comparison of the designs? Ultimately, from information presented in the filing, it looks like Troy is in the right. However, being subject to similar contractual agreements myself, I can tell you that development of a modular rail by Samson was likely an inevitability regardless of their work with Troy. Lawyers get you over a barrel with all of the stipulations, and then you get a judgement ruled against you for going about the business that you're an expert in just because you provided your expertise to another party under contract. I'm hesitant to develop related business ideas at the moment because I'm afraid of succeeding and being harassed by a contract I signed to make some quick money several months ago. I'll go ahead and disclaim my opinions by saying that I don't know what I'm talking about, and have no familiarity with the parties or products involved. I would love to see the products in question and make a determination for myself. I can say from experience that things are never as clear as they seem and that passing judgement based on the limited information is foolish. I have lost some faith in the Firearms industry today  ... even though I've been quite cynical about several manufacturers and businesses in the industry before, the smaller manufacturers always seemed approachable and above the fray when it came to big business junk like bankruptcy and lawyers.
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For you folks that are somewhat new to these forums, just click here, and read some of what comes up, and you'll get a better grasp of the situation. His company is the other party named in the suit.
When you buddy up with the Devil, sometimes you get burnt. |
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Thank you... was curious who it was. Maybe I'll get my flip-up sights from somewhere other than your harrasser. since you don't know the details of the case, how do you know who's the guilty party in this? Since a judge already ruled in favor of plaintiff, Samson may be getting what it deserves. I'm going to wait for details before boycotting anyone. I never said boycott, I simply stated that my purchasing decision may change. No decision has been made as of yet. Relax and breathe. |
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Thank you... was curious who it was. Maybe I'll get my flip-up sights from somewhere other than your harrasser. since you don't know the details of the case, how do you know who's the guilty party in this? Since a judge already ruled in favor of plaintiff, Samson may be getting what it deserves. I'm going to wait for details before boycotting anyone. Hmm, a news article devoid of details? Strange  . But consider this line: "Troy Industries Inc. of Massachusetts filed suit against Samson after both companies filed for a patent. Samson got there first and won in patent court."
I never said boycott, I simply stated that my purchasing decision may change. Relax and breathe. I never said you said boycott. . Are you okay?
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Are you okay?
Medicfrost, thank you so much for your concern! Yes, I'm fine. Also, thank you for the link to the legal papers (didn't have time to go search for that). It provides an in depth look at what is going on. We all learned a valuable lesson here today: Not everyone is your friend, business or otherwise. |
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I just learned a lot right here: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/73270708/Troy-v-Samson-Manufacturing-et-al Go get em Troy. Link no worky for me. It's the court papers from Troy vs. Samson Manufacturing and your best friend Dick Swan. I'm not sure why it isn't working for you. Are you trying to view it on a cell phone? I hate to see a Black Rifle Accessory Manufacturer pursuing legislation against a competitor, it seems like we should all be supporting each other in times like this when common interests trump personal matters.... but reading the filing, it's a stark reminder that this is a business. We don't know the whole story either, it seems like neither party could be judged fully honorable. Then there are the circumstances to consider; proprietary information and trade secrets when it comes to a Modular Rail System?? It's about as simple as a gun part gets. Can anyone here make an amateur comparison of the designs? Ultimately, from information presented in the filing, it looks like Troy is in the right. However, being subject to similar contractual agreements myself, I can tell you that development of a modular rail by Samson was likely an inevitability regardless of their work with Troy. Lawyers get you over a barrel with all of the stipulations, and then you get a judgement ruled against you for going about the business that you're an expert in just because you provided your expertise to another party under contract. I'm hesitant to develop related business ideas at the moment because I'm afraid of succeeding and being harassed by a contract I signed to make some quick money several months ago. I'll go ahead and disclaim my opinions by saying that I don't know what I'm talking about, and have no familiarity with the parties or products involved. I would love to see the products in question and make a determination for myself. I can say from experience that things are never as clear as they seem and that passing judgement based on the limited information is foolish. I have lost some faith in the Firearms industry today ... even though I've been quite cynical about several manufacturers and businesses in the industry before, the smaller manufacturers always seemed approachable and above the fray when it came to big business junk like bankruptcy and lawyers." Just a sampling of the court room parties in Massachusetts " I got a busy day going on, but I will return. 
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For you folks that are somewhat new to these forums, just click here, and read some of what comes up, and you'll get a better grasp of the situation. His company is the other party named in the suit. When you buddy up with the Devil, sometimes you get burnt. I'm confused. Those links take me too a bunch of articles about ARMS sueing LaRue and Troy etc. how does that effect Samson? Did Samson make parts for both parties at one time and get caught in the cross fire? I am an engineer by degree. I have been personal sued for non compete and confidentiality type issues by a company I used to work for after I left the company to start a new company that did similar business. I have also worked for a company that was sued by Haliburton over patents and such. In both cases it is impossible for an outsider to have a real grasp of the situation as when I was an insider it is difficult to grasp. The legal system, patents, and non compete agrrements are a huge ball of crap rolling downhill. You best bet is to try and stay out of its way as once your rolled up in it you never really know what the outcome might be. Yes Troy won this suit against Samson but for any of us to sit back and armchair quarterback the situation is a waste of time. I hope both companies learn to keep clear of each other and that both stay prosperous going forward. Competition is always a good thing. |
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For you folks that are somewhat new to these forums, just click here, and read some of what comes up, and you'll get a better grasp of the situation. His company is the other party named in the suit. When you buddy up with the Devil, sometimes you get burnt. I'm confused. Those links take me too a bunch of articles about ARMS sueing LaRue and Troy etc. how does that effect Samson? Did Samson make parts for both parties at one time and get caught in the cross fire? I am an engineer by degree. I have been personal sued for non compete and confidentiality type issues by a company I used to work for after I left the company to start a new company that did similar business. I have also worked for a company that was sued by Haliburton over patents and such. In both cases it is impossible for an outsider to have a real grasp of the situation as when I was an insider it is difficult to grasp. The legal system, patents, and non compete agrrements are a huge ball of crap rolling downhill. You best bet is to try and stay out of its way as once your rolled up in it you never really know what the outcome might be. Yes Troy won this suit against Samson but for any of us to sit back and armchair quarterback the situation is a waste of time. I hope both companies learn to keep clear of each other and that both stay prosperous going forward. Competition is always a good thing. You don't see us suing nobody. Back in January of 2009, the month of the annual Shotshow, within a few days of each other, both Swan and Samson (or derivatives thereof) sued me et al. Now one could argue that the timing was a mere coincidence, but you'd have a tough time convincing me. The terms of what transpired and was agreed to between myself and Samson is to remain undisclosed, but to see Samson chomping on one of my barbeque wraps at our Demo Day in Vegas ... ... well, let's just say it took me aback.
ETA - To our credit, we announced our OBR in that January of 2009, then, somewhat of a surprise to us, in order to get good parts, had to build damn near every part on it all throughout 2009 ... while being attacked on two legal fronts. Yet in the fall of 2010, we swept, swept mind you, the International Sniper Comp - 5 of the top 7 rifles being LaRue's. With the 1st place Service Rifle / 1st place overall shot by two OBRs. And 1st Place Open shot with an OBR spotter rifle. 
ETA 2 - You won't see Troy answering to none of this, he's still ensconced in litigation and His (or Her) Honor would frown upon that - as a guy that's been frowned upon, I know for a fact.
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For you folks that are somewhat new to these forums, just click here, and read some of what comes up, and you'll get a better grasp of the situation. His company is the other party named in the suit. When you buddy up with the Devil, sometimes you get burnt. I'm confused. Those links take me too a bunch of articles about ARMS sueing LaRue and Troy etc. how does that effect Samson? Did Samson make parts for both parties at one time and get caught in the cross fire? I am an engineer by degree. I have been personal sued for non compete and confidentiality type issues by a company I used to work for after I left the company to start a new company that did similar business. I have also worked for a company that was sued by Haliburton over patents and such. In both cases it is impossible for an outsider to have a real grasp of the situation as when I was an insider it is difficult to grasp. The legal system, patents, and non compete agrrements are a huge ball of crap rolling downhill. You best bet is to try and stay out of its way as once your rolled up in it you never really know what the outcome might be. Yes Troy won this suit against Samson but for any of us to sit back and armchair quarterback the situation is a waste of time. I hope both companies learn to keep clear of each other and that both stay prosperous going forward. Competition is always a good thing. You don't see us suing nobody. Back in January of 2009, the month of the annual Shotshow, within a few days of each other, both Swan and Samson (or derivatives thereof) sued me et al. Now one could argue that the timing was a mere coincidence, but you'd have a tough time convincing me. The terms of what transpired and was agreed to between myself and Samson is to remain undisclosed, but to see Samson chomping on one of my barbeque wraps at our Demo Day in Vegas ... ... well, let's just say it took me aback.
ETA - To our credit, we announced our OBR in that January of 2009, then, somewhat of a surprise to us, in order to get good parts, had to build damn near every part on it all throughout 2009 ... while being attacked on two legal fronts. Yet in the fall of 2010, we swept, swept mind you, the International Sniper Comp - 5 of the top 7 rifles being LaRue's. With the 1st place Service Rifle / 1st place overall shot by two OBRs. And 1st Place Open shot with an OBR spotter rifle.
ETA 2 - You won't see Troy answering to none of this, he's still ensconced in litigation and His (or Her) Honor would frown upon that - as a guy that's been frowned upon, I know for a fact. Mark I know we spent some late nights in Mass, The difference was that we had two parties that were reasonable and wanted to end a dispute in a business like manner. Mark you do make the best BBQ Thank you. As I hope you know it was not meant as harassment more a bury of the axe, and a opportunity to shake hands. I see many rifles that share your products and ours on them I see nothing wrong with that. All customers deserve a choice. I know we both take pride in what we manufacture and you also have a great quality product. We did not post on here for a re litigation on the internet. I purposely left out the name of the other company. The fact is there are several cases. This was not a patent infringement case. We just wanted our customers to know we are still here, strong, still hiring, still buying new equipment, and creating new products, and shipping like crazy. Happy Easter Scott Samson President CEO Samson Mfg Corp |
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For you folks that are somewhat new to these forums, just click here, and read some of what comes up, and you'll get a better grasp of the situation. His company is the other party named in the suit. When you buddy up with the Devil, sometimes you get burnt. I'm confused. Those links take me too a bunch of articles about ARMS sueing LaRue and Troy etc. how does that effect Samson? Did Samson make parts for both parties at one time and get caught in the cross fire? I am an engineer by degree. I have been personal sued for non compete and confidentiality type issues by a company I used to work for after I left the company to start a new company that did similar business. I have also worked for a company that was sued by Haliburton over patents and such. In both cases it is impossible for an outsider to have a real grasp of the situation as when I was an insider it is difficult to grasp. The legal system, patents, and non compete agrrements are a huge ball of crap rolling downhill. You best bet is to try and stay out of its way as once your rolled up in it you never really know what the outcome might be. Yes Troy won this suit against Samson but for any of us to sit back and armchair quarterback the situation is a waste of time. I hope both companies learn to keep clear of each other and that both stay prosperous going forward. Competition is always a good thing. You don't see us suing nobody. Back in January of 2009, the month of the annual Shotshow, within a few days of each other, both Swan and Samson (or derivatives thereof) sued me et al. Now one could argue that the timing was a mere coincidence, but you'd have a tough time convincing me. The terms of what transpired and was agreed to between myself and Samson is to remain undisclosed, but to see Samson chomping on one of my barbeque wraps at our Demo Day in Vegas ... ... well, let's just say it took me aback.
ETA - To our credit, we announced our OBR in that January of 2009, then, somewhat of a surprise to us, in order to get good parts, had to build damn near every part on it all throughout 2009 ... while being attacked on two legal fronts. Yet in the fall of 2010, we swept, swept mind you, the International Sniper Comp - 5 of the top 7 rifles being LaRue's. With the 1st place Service Rifle / 1st place overall shot by two OBRs. And 1st Place Open shot with an OBR spotter rifle.
ETA 2 - You won't see Troy answering to none of this, he's still ensconced in litigation and His (or Her) Honor would frown upon that - as a guy that's been frowned upon, I know for a fact. Mark I know we spent some late nights in Mass, The difference was that we had two parties that were reasonable and wanted to end a dispute in a business like manner. Mark you do make the best BBQ Thank you. As I hope you know it was not meant as harassment more a bury of the axe, and a opportunity to shake hands. I see many rifles that share your products and ours on them I see nothing wrong with that. All customers deserve a choice. I know we both take pride in what we manufacture and you also have a great quality product. We did not post on here for a re litigation on the internet. I purposely left out the name of the other company. The fact is there are several cases. This was not a patent infringement case. We just wanted our customers to know we are still here, strong, still hiring, still buying new equipment, and creating new products, and shipping like crazy. Happy Easter Scott Samson President CEO Samson Mfg Corp I know that I don't have a dog in this, but where I come from (the country), disputes aren't settled in a courtroom, but in the alley behind the bar. I wouldn't say taking a friend to court and taking his money, if money was exchanged, is the ideal way to bury the hatchet, but what do I know. I don't own a business, and probably don't understand how they should be run, but my pappy did when I was growing up, and he ran his like Mr. Larue does his, and not like you other guys are doing it. Mr. Larue, many of us appreciate your values and honor. I'm not a rich man, and I don't order from you often; only a couple times over the last decade to be honest, but would rather see my money go to a company like yours above one like theirs. I will start buying from Larue Tactical more often. |
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I need a rainer arm's style evolution rail. Ramp up the production! Unless you guys can make that and sell directly  Upper finally complete! Love the Evolution. http://i.imgur.com/CLWLh8Gl.jpg |
What?!!??!  Filing for bankruptcy? I was JUST being drawn in by your amazing looking Evolution Rail Systems (well, Rainier Arms specifically). The buyers are out here... Don't give up on us, lol. You guys can get through this and continue making good rail systems! 
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Quoted: What?!!??! Filing for bankruptcy? I was JUST being drawn in by your amazing looking Evolution Rail Systems (well, Rainier Arms specifically). The buyers are out here... Don't give up on us, lol. You guys can get through this and continue making good rail systems! If you read the post, it says filing has to do with litigation with another company, not consumer demand. |
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Sorry if I don't understand business but.... You got plenty of customers, and business is growing, how does that equate to chapter 11? I hear you, court battle with a competitor. Sorry I don't get it. It means lawyers cost a fortune. Please see the portion of my post that says "I hear you, court battle with a competitor" that was your clue that I know lawyers cost a fortune. I take issue with bankruptcy when companies have plenty of customers and business is growing???? That is the part I don't get but thank your for attempting to show me an overwhelmingly obvious point in this case. |
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Sorry if I don't understand business but.... You got plenty of customers, and business is growing, how does that equate to chapter 11? I hear you, court battle with a competitor. Sorry I don't get it. It means lawyers cost a fortune. Please see the portion of my post that says "I hear you, court battle with a competitor" that was your clue that I know lawyers cost a fortune. I take issue with bankruptcy when companies have plenty of customers and business is growing???? That is the part I don't get but thank your for attempting to show me an overwhelmingly obvious point in this case. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11,_Title_11,_United_States_Code |
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Quoted: Then what's not to understand? More money going out than coming in means loss of profit. It doesn't matter what revenue is, if they are paying monstrous legal fees, and potentially have to stop selling a design.Quoted: Quoted: Sorry if I don't understand business but.... You got plenty of customers, and business is growing, how does that equate to chapter 11? I hear you, court battle with a competitor. Sorry I don't get it. It means lawyers cost a fortune. Please see the portion of my post that says "I hear you, court battle with a competitor" that was your clue that I know lawyers cost a fortune. I take issue with bankruptcy when companies have plenty of customers and business is growing???? That is the part I don't get but thank your for attempting to show me an overwhelmingly obvious point in this case. It's just arithmetic.
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Thank you... was curious who it was. Maybe I'll get my flip-up sights from somewhere other than your harrasser.
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Thank you... was curious who it was. Maybe I'll get my flip-up sights from somewhere other than your harrasser. since you don't know the details of the case, how do you know who's the guilty party in this? Since a judge already ruled in favor of plaintiff, Samson may be getting what it deserves. I'm going to wait for details before boycotting anyone. |
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Thank you... was curious who it was. Maybe I'll get my flip-up sights from somewhere other than your harrasser. since you don't know the details of the case, how do you know who's the guilty party in this? Since a judge already ruled in favor of plaintiff, Samson may be getting what it deserves. I'm going to wait for details before boycotting anyone. But, but, there's so much to read. |
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For you folks that are somewhat new to these forums, just click here, and read some of what comes up, and you'll get a better grasp of the situation. His company is the other party named in the suit. When you buddy up with the Devil, sometimes you get burnt. I'm confused. Those links take me too a bunch of articles about ARMS sueing LaRue and Troy etc. how does that effect Samson? Did Samson make parts for both parties at one time and get caught in the cross fire? I am an engineer by degree. I have been personal sued for non compete and confidentiality type issues by a company I used to work for after I left the company to start a new company that did similar business. I have also worked for a company that was sued by Haliburton over patents and such. In both cases it is impossible for an outsider to have a real grasp of the situation as when I was an insider it is difficult to grasp. The legal system, patents, and non compete agrrements are a huge ball of crap rolling downhill. You best bet is to try and stay out of its way as once your rolled up in it you never really know what the outcome might be. Yes Troy won this suit against Samson but for any of us to sit back and armchair quarterback the situation is a waste of time. I hope both companies learn to keep clear of each other and that both stay prosperous going forward. Competition is always a good thing. When douchebags like Samson and ARMS start suing everyone, we lose. I like having a variety of accessories to choose from, and this kind of crap discourages new products from hitting the market. |
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Ultimately, from information presented in the filing, it looks like Troy is in the right.
" Just a sampling of the court room parties in Massachusetts " I got a busy day going on, but I will return. Yeah, you're right, Troy does look in the legal right. But HOLY CRAP... didn't realize so many "problems" were present between opposing companies. Guess it should be a given in terms of design/manufacturing? |
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On March 25, 2013 Samson Manufacturing Corp. filed for relief under chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code. The filing was occasioned by a private dispute between Samson and one of its competitors, with whom Samson has been involved in lengthy litigation. Samson’s business remains strong and the company continues to grow. We do not anticipate any delay in filling orders or slowing down of our production lines. Our customers will continue to receive the responsiveness and quality they have come to expect from Samson Manufacturing. Please bear with us while we deliver a quick and well-deserved smackdown. Scott Samson President Samson Mfg Call or email with any concerns For posterity ...
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For you folks that are somewhat new to these forums, just click here, and read some of what comes up, and you'll get a better grasp of the situation. His company is the other party named in the suit. When you buddy up with the Devil, sometimes you get burnt. I'm confused. Those links take me too a bunch of articles about ARMS sueing LaRue and Troy etc. how does that effect Samson? Did Samson make parts for both parties at one time and get caught in the cross fire? I am an engineer by degree. I have been personal sued for non compete and confidentiality type issues by a company I used to work for after I left the company to start a new company that did similar business. I have also worked for a company that was sued by Haliburton over patents and such. In both cases it is impossible for an outsider to have a real grasp of the situation as when I was an insider it is difficult to grasp. The legal system, patents, and non compete agrrements are a huge ball of crap rolling downhill. You best bet is to try and stay out of its way as once your rolled up in it you never really know what the outcome might be. Yes Troy won this suit against Samson but for any of us to sit back and armchair quarterback the situation is a waste of time. I hope both companies learn to keep clear of each other and that both stay prosperous going forward. Competition is always a good thing. You don't see us suing nobody. Back in January of 2009, the month of the annual Shotshow, within a few days of each other, both Swan and Samson (or derivatives thereof) sued me et al. Now one could argue that the timing was a mere coincidence, but you'd have a tough time convincing me. The terms of what transpired and was agreed to between myself and Samson is to remain undisclosed, but to see Samson chomping on one of my barbeque wraps at our Demo Day in Vegas ... ... well, let's just say it took me aback.
ETA - To our credit, we announced our OBR in that January of 2009, then, somewhat of a surprise to us, in order to get good parts, had to build damn near every part on it all throughout 2009 ... while being attacked on two legal fronts. Yet in the fall of 2010, we swept, swept mind you, the International Sniper Comp - 5 of the top 7 rifles being LaRue's. With the the 1st place Service Rifle / 1st place overall shot by two OBRs. And 1st Place Open shot with an OBR spotter rifle.
ETA 2 - You won't see Troy answering to none of this, he's still ensconced in litigation and His (or Her) Honor would frown upon that - as a guy that's been frowned upon, I know for a fact. Hahaha this response has just turned me from someone who was totally indifferent toward Larue into a total fanboy. His honor shouldn't frown upon bringing these matters to court on Arfcom, because in the end, who is the judge that makes the final verdict? I read as much as I could find per Medic Frosts' links, a lot of the actual documents cost money to see though. The suicide monument thing alone puts me at odds with Swan's personality. I was unaware of all the prior litigation. I gotta agree with Jesse too, the patent and contract lawsuits is a big ball of crap rolling downhill. |
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For you folks that are somewhat new to these forums, just click here, and read some of what comes up, and you'll get a better grasp of the situation. His company is the other party named in the suit. When you buddy up with the Devil, sometimes you get burnt. I'm confused. Those links take me too a bunch of articles about ARMS sueing LaRue and Troy etc. how does that effect Samson? Did Samson make parts for both parties at one time and get caught in the cross fire? I am an engineer by degree. I have been personal sued for non compete and confidentiality type issues by a company I used to work for after I left the company to start a new company that did similar business. I have also worked for a company that was sued by Haliburton over patents and such. In both cases it is impossible for an outsider to have a real grasp of the situation as when I was an insider it is difficult to grasp. The legal system, patents, and non compete agrrements are a huge ball of crap rolling downhill. You best bet is to try and stay out of its way as once your rolled up in it you never really know what the outcome might be. Yes Troy won this suit against Samson but for any of us to sit back and armchair quarterback the situation is a waste of time. I hope both companies learn to keep clear of each other and that both stay prosperous going forward. Competition is always a good thing. When douchebags like Samson and ARMS start suing everyone, we lose. I like having a variety of accessories to choose from, and this kind of crap discourages new products from hitting the market. So does that make Troy a douschebag as well for suing Samson? I'm just trying to understand your line of thinking. Are you privy to inside information that we are not? |