[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Arms List Scam (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/17/2013 4:26:00 PM EDT
Any other member here got scammed from Armslists aside from me?  Send a money order to address in lovelock, Nevada and the guy never send the Colt 6920  . I filed a complaint to my local PD but said that there is nothing they can do as it was an out of state deal... . Filed complaint to Postal Inspector but have not heard anything... I know, if it is too good to be true it probably is... but he sound legit and send me pics when I asked. Anyone know this guy? Thomas Carr Jr
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Any other member here got scammed from Armslists aside from me? Send a money order to address in lovelock, Nevada and the guy never send the Colt 6920 . I filed a complaint to my local PD but said that there is nothing they can do as it was an out of state deal.... Filed complaint to Postal Inspector but have not heard anything... I know, if it is too good to be true it probably is... but he sound legit and send me pics when I asked. Anyone know this guy? Thomas Carr JrWhere were you expecting the rifle to be sent to? Would it be normal to send payment when the FFL receives the rifle? Your use of smiley's seem to me that you're too laid back about this. |
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Where were you expecting the rifle to be sent to? Would it be normal to send payment when the FFL receives the rifle? Who ships first and gets paid later on any internet deal? 
As a rule of thumb I dont buy expensive stuff out of state via Armslist. Anyone can post and there is no vetting or feedback or any public recourse if a deal goes badly. Contact the ATF and the cops in the jurisdiction you sent the funds to. At this point you've got nothing to lose by going all out if you think you've been ripped off and its not just a matter of the guy being a week late in shipping the rifle. You didnt see this post did you? 2 seconds via Bing search Thomas Carr scammer |
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Armslist is not regulated like ebay and gunbroker. There is no facility for leaving feedback so there is no way to track a sellers sales record.
Having said that, I have bought firearms out of state through Armslist with success. I exchange a lot of emails, get a phone number, and even look them up on facebook. I find out as much about the seller as I can. It's still a crapshoot... if he gets your money and decides not to send you the item you are classically fucked. 
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I gave him my FFL dealer's name and address to send to and said that he'll send the rifle once he got the money order. He got the money order Feb. 4 and never send the anything. I've been calling and emailing him everyday but he's not responding... I showed/gave all the email copies to my local PD. He (police officer handling my case) called the number and left message to call him back but never did get a response on phone or email. I also found out (officer told me) that the phone he gave me was from Wapaca, WI not from Lovelock,Nevada.....
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Armslist specifically states that what you did, you should not have done. Live and learn.
Q: How do I avoid scams? Follow these common sense rules to help avoid getting scammed: Deal locally and transact in person - This will help you avoid almost all scams Never send Cashiers Checks or Money Orders to sellers Never wire money via Western Union, Moneygram, or other wire services Never accept Cashiers Checks or Money Orders as they can be easily faked Never give out financial information Avoid deals involving shipping or escrow services If a deal is too good to be true, it probably is ARMSLIST is not involved in any transaction, we do not handle payments, guarantee transactions, provide escrow services, or offer "buyer protection" or "seller certification" |
| These are frequently Nigerian scams. They get some real dupe to receive and cash checks from their scam ads. Then the dupe, usually some slacked jawed moron who thinks he's getting some giant fortune from them later, mails the cash to them over seas. If you sent a money order, your money is gone. If you sent a check, the bank might help you. The post office and pd will do nothing. Mail fraud is a perfectly legit way to make money these days based on this fact as "no one can do anything about it". Ask me how I know all this. |
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Where were you expecting the rifle to be sent to? Would it be normal to send payment when the FFL receives the rifle? Who ships first and gets paid later on any internet deal?
As a rule of thumb I dont buy expensive stuff out of state via Armslist. Anyone can post and there is no vetting or feedback or any public recourse if a deal goes badly. Contact the ATF and the cops in the jurisdiction you sent the funds to. At this point you've got nothing to lose by going all out if you think you've been ripped off and its not just a matter of the guy being a week late in shipping the rifle. You didnt see this post did you? 2 seconds via Bing search Thomas Carr scammer Yep... did not see that . I'm thinking of driving there my self and find the guy... but it probably not worth it.
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| That scam is fairly obvious and easy to spot. The same person is posting multiple firearms at ridiculously low prices. That is the first clue. The second sign is the fact that all these low priced firearms are marked in the location as being from "Illinois, Illinois, Nevada, Nevada," etc. There are a half a dozen on the fist several pages of the Rifles listings, and I flag them as I find them. Buyer beware on Armslist. |
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Where were you expecting the rifle to be sent to? Would it be normal to send payment when the FFL receives the rifle? Who ships first and gets paid later on any internet deal?
As a rule of thumb I dont buy expensive stuff out of state via Armslist. Anyone can post and there is no vetting or feedback or any public recourse if a deal goes badly. Contact the ATF and the cops in the jurisdiction you sent the funds to. At this point you've got nothing to lose by going all out if you think you've been ripped off and its not just a matter of the guy being a week late in shipping the rifle. You didnt see this post did you? 2 seconds via Bing search Thomas Carr scammer In this case would it not be safer to request that payment will be sent after the FFL receives the rifle? |
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Armslist specifically states that what you did, you should not have done. Live and learn. Q: How do I avoid scams? Follow these common sense rules to help avoid getting scammed: Deal locally and transact in person - This will help you avoid almost all scams Never send Cashiers Checks or Money Orders to sellers Never wire money via Western Union, Moneygram, or other wire services Never accept Cashiers Checks or Money Orders as they can be easily faked Never give out financial information Avoid deals involving shipping or escrow services If a deal is too good to be true, it probably is ARMSLIST is not involved in any transaction, we do not handle payments, guarantee transactions, provide escrow services, or offer "buyer protection" or "seller certification" I was skeptical but when I went to the post office and ask about MO, the lady said that it was safe as it is a federal crime to received a money order and not shipped/get the merchandise. It was also the same advised from my FFL dealer to do the money order... |
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In this case would it not be safer to request that payment will be sent after the FFL receives the rifle? Safer? Absolutely, but no right minded seller would ever do it for a stranger since the risk becomes entirely theirs rather then merely risking accepting a forged Money Order. There's nothing keeping the FFL from handing the rifle over to the person it's intended for and again you have no recourse since it was "gift" with no money trail proving otherwise. Buying sight unseen is a risk. Years ago I shipped 5 AR mags to a member of another forum I frequented, as a favor without getting paid first. I ended up having to leave negative feedback over $50. He paid me the money a couple months later quite reluctantly. Shipping first without being paid is for suckers and people who've never been ripped off. |
| Find an FFL dealer in the sellers home state, work out a deal with them where they hand the seller the MO or certified funds to the seller when he drops off the gun. The seller is protected because he can drop the rifle off get his money, if there is an issue e knows exactly where the gun was dropped off at. |
I buy a lot of stuff on line and mostly I use CC as I have a way to stop the payment but for this instance he do not accept CC. But because the post office employee and my dealer both suggested that it was okay to use MO are the only other reason I went thru it. And I learned my lesson..... very expensive lesson . Should have bought the plasma cutter I really wanted... a Hyperthem 45 
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Just tell the seller you contacted the ATF, he will read the email and shit himself Not likely. Got scammed by a member here at Arfcom. Seemed very legit, long membership and everything. Contacted local authorities in my AO and his. Nothing. You're on your own. Posted some info here, and mods shut it down because of personal info of perp I posted. |
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I'm just glad this hasn't happened to me here buying stuff in the EE. Even if you were to track this guy down there isn't anything you can do to prove he didn't sent the rifle, all he has to do is claim the gun must have been lost in the mail. we both agreed that he need to send it with tracking number so I can track it and don't need to keep calling my dealer if and when he receive it.... |
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I'm just glad this hasn't happened to me here buying stuff in the EE. Even if you were to track this guy down there isn't anything you can do to prove he didn't sent the rifle, all he has to do is claim the gun must have been lost in the mail. Delivery of the goods to the buyers FFL is the seller's responsibility, lost in the mail or not. The seller would owe a refund to the buyer since the goods were not delivered as paid for. If the seller didn't get a receipt with a tracking number proving the item was shipped then the assumption is it's theft/mail fraud. Insurance for packages is for the seller's protection, not the buyer. |
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Just tell the seller you contacted the ATF, he will read the email and shit himself Not likely. Got scammed by a member here at Arfcom. Seemed very legit, long membership and everything. Contacted local authorities in my AO and his. Nothing. You're on your own. Posted some info here, and mods shut it down because of personal info of perp I posted. Did you edit your post to the allowable amount of info? Did you contact a mod and repost what was allowable? Did it involve purchasing a firearm? |
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I'm just glad this hasn't happened to me here buying stuff in the EE. Even if you were to track this guy down there isn't anything you can do to prove he didn't sent the rifle, all he has to do is claim the gun must have been lost in the mail. Delivery of the goods to the buyers FFL is the seller's responsibility, lost in the mail or not. The seller would owe a refund to the buyer since the goods were not delivered as paid for. If the seller didn't get a receipt with a tracking number proving the item was shipped then the assumption is it's theft/mail fraud. Insurance for packages is for the seller's protection, not the buyer. That comes down to a he said/ she said scenario, OP might have a slim chance of wining but I'd put money on not. Even though a tracking number was talked about that still doesn't hold the seller down to requesting that service. |
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Just tell the seller you contacted the ATF, he will read the email and shit himself This. ATF is very active in prosecuting this stuff. BTW start sending registered letters to him. RLs get lots of action, as it is the first step in preparing for litigation. |
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I'm just glad this hasn't happened to me here buying stuff in the EE. Even if you were to track this guy down there isn't anything you can do to prove he didn't sent the rifle, all he has to do is claim the gun must have been lost in the mail. Delivery of the goods to the buyers FFL is the seller's responsibility, lost in the mail or not. The seller would owe a refund to the buyer since the goods were not delivered as paid for. If the seller didn't get a receipt with a tracking number proving the item was shipped then the assumption is it's theft/mail fraud. Insurance for packages is for the seller's protection, not the buyer. That comes down to a he said/ she said scenario, OP might have a slim chance of wining but I'd put money on not. Even though a tracking number was talked about that still doesn't hold the seller down to requesting that service. If the seller can't prove they shipped a 13lb item the size and weight of a rifle, on a certain date to the buyers FFL they owe the buyer the money back. Insurance and tracking info isn't for the buyer, it's to covers the seller's ass in the event of a loss by the shipper. Until the item arrives at the buyers destination it's the responsibility of the seller to deliver the goods as paid for. Delivery Confirmation via USPS used to cost .75, now its free with Priority mail, Tracking info via Fedex/UPS/DHL is included as part of the delivery fee. If someone is shipping firearms and not getting a tracking number/insurance/ keeping receipts to show they shipped the firearms they're asking to get ripped off by either the shipper or the buyer who'll claim it was never received. Same with the buyer not keeping their MO receipt , or sending funds via 1st class mail with no proof of delivery, and hoping the seller keeps their end of the agreement with no proof they ever sent the funds or a way to trace the money order and see if it's been cashed. |
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I'm just glad this hasn't happened to me here buying stuff in the EE. Even if you were to track this guy down there isn't anything you can do to prove he didn't sent the rifle, all he has to do is claim the gun must have been lost in the mail. Delivery of the goods to the buyers FFL is the seller's responsibility, lost in the mail or not. The seller would owe a refund to the buyer since the goods were not delivered as paid for. If the seller didn't get a receipt with a tracking number proving the item was shipped then the assumption is it's theft/mail fraud. Insurance for packages is for the seller's protection, not the buyer. That comes down to a he said/ she said scenario, OP might have a slim chance of wining but I'd put money on not. Even though a tracking number was talked about that still doesn't hold the seller down to requesting that service. If the seller can't prove they shipped a 13lb item the size and weight of a rifle, on a certain date to the buyers FFL they owe the buyer the money back. Insurance and tracking info isn't for the buyer, it's to covers the seller's ass in the event of a loss by the shipper. Until the item arrives at the buyers destination it's the responsibility of the seller to deliver the goods as paid for. Delivery Confirmation via USPS used to cost .75, now its free with Priority mail, Tracking info via Fedex/UPS/DHL is included as part of the delivery fee. If someone is shipping firearms and not getting a tracking number/insurance/ keeping receipts to show they shipped the firearms they're asking to get ripped off by either the shipper or the buyer who'll claim it was never received. Same with the buyer not keeping their MO receipt , or sending funds via 1st class mail with no proof of delivery, and hoping the seller keeps their end of the agreement with no proof they ever sent the funds or a way to trace the money order and see if it's been cashed. Of course it is the sellers responsibility to make sure the buyer receives what was agreed upon in the honor system, but unfortunately that's not how some people think. It's also irrelevant how large or heavy an item being shipped is, if he didn't get the tracking service he didn't get it; and thus the argument that it was lost in the mail. Or an even worse excuse that would probably work would be the MO sent was a gift or for services already rendered or for a totally different item. I'm not arguing that OP didn't get fucked, I'm merely stating there really isn't much of a chance for him to recover his losses. I learned my lesson on Ebay and paypal a long time ago and it was more costly then the OP's loss, live and learn. |
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Armslist specifically states that what you did, you should not have done. Live and learn. Q: How do I avoid scams? Follow these common sense rules to help avoid getting scammed: Never send Cashiers Checks or Money Orders to sellers Never wire money via Western Union, Moneygram, or other wire services Never accept Cashiers Checks or Money Orders as they can be easily faked Avoid deals involving shipping or escrow services So what do they suggest you use for payment if you don't do a face-to-face? |
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Armslist specifically states that what you did, you should not have done. Live and learn. Q: How do I avoid scams? Follow these common sense rules to help avoid getting scammed: Never send Cashiers Checks or Money Orders to sellers Never wire money via Western Union, Moneygram, or other wire services Never accept Cashiers Checks or Money Orders as they can be easily faked Avoid deals involving shipping or escrow services So what do they suggest you use for payment if you don't do a face-to-face? That is the thing there is really no secure way to do a non FTF. You can mitigate some risk but you never know. |
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How much did you pay him? $1,400 HOLY CRAP! id probably be single if I threw away $1400. I'm an honest person. and I ship things I sell on arms-list sometimes. But I NEVER, ever send money or PayPal to pay for things on arms-list, or internet forums. I'm just too paranoid. Its face to face only if is over $20. I would have drove trough several states to pick it up, when dealing with that much money. That way you would only be out gas money and some time if it didn't work out. nowhere near $1400. |
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Find an FFL dealer in the sellers home state, work out a deal with them where they hand the seller the MO or certified funds to the seller when he drops off the gun. The seller is protected because he can drop the rifle off get his money, if there is an issue e knows exactly where the gun was dropped off at. This sounds reasonable. I would still want to choose the dealer myself and discuss the transaction with them before hand. if your dealing with a scammer it would never get that far. they would be gone as soon as you mention using a reputable dealer. |
| I've never sold or bought anything off of ARMSLIST. It's funny every time I've somehow ended up on that sight it shows that disclaimer you have to check on to see the ad clearly. You take a chance anytime you buy something online you at least hope that its in as good conditions as the picture or description. That's if you get it to begin with. |