Posted: 3/13/2013 3:33:51 PM EDT
|
I am really confused (and honestly a little upset) about this whole thing. So i am looking for an honest answer, because i know damn well that just about everyone here at ARF.com has known for many years now that Pay Pal is very anti-gun (and owned by eBay) spending millions funding the corruption of our 2nd Amendment rights as well as our RTKBA- using the very money that folks here seem to not care about anymore by using Pay Pal... as long as they get their ching for their sale. What happened to using our highly trusted and protected U.S. Postal Money Orders?
We all know that this is one of Pay Pal's biggest agendas as it has been widely out in the open for years now. But what i do not understand, is in looking through all the for sale adds on the EE here for the last few years... and even more so over the last year... With all that is going on with new anti-gun bills changing the 2nd Amendment and eroding our rights, as well as the panic buying/selling, etc. And all of us fighting to keep our rights in our States, helping others in States gone rogue, mailing letters, getting Manufacturing Companies to stop selling to States imposing these new draconian laws and mainly fighting to not have these new anti-gun laws put in place. As well as the new laws that have been back doored on folks in CO were are trying to get repealed for example- Mainly because we all know that there are enough gun laws on the books & these new ones are only for Tyrannical purposes, if you will.... Enforcing the current laws instead of making criminals of us Law abiding folks is the good fight. And I thought we were all fighting the good fight as best we can. Why give in or better yet give your 4% and or what ever other fees to Pay Pal when there are other methods of payment that are almost as fast as using Pay Pal. Sometimes even faster in my experience... When I used to use Pay Pal for my surplus eBay store i wouldn't see the money into my checking account for almost a week having to do their little transfer process which was put in place to hold your money and make even more interest off it, on top of the fees they get - So my question is going to be pretty obvious at this point----> Why do the folks here that continue to use Pay Pal for their gun related transactions, accessories, etc (using the "gift" comment to hide it from Pay Pal) keep giving their money to Pay Pal? All while knowing full well that they are giving their money to the anti-gun organization called Pay Pal & knowing exactly what they are doing with that money.... I don't understand this at all. Why have so many ignored this? Especially while fighting the good fight. It doesn't make sense. M4-CQBR |
|
Because they, unfortunately, have the market cornered on sending and receiving online money for purchases.
Some people have a stale market (during non panic times) or don't live near people and it is easier and sometimes more profitable to sell their items on the internet vs waiting for someone local to decide they want to buy. It sucks. |
|
Use Dwolla.com or PistolPay.com instead.
__________________________________________________________________ Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread). «nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus» |
|
I understand your comment to a point. And whether you're selling online makes no difference in this regards to my question. Online sales are for sure many times easier and faster than waiting for a local buyer, but that has nothing to do with supporting Pay Pal. There are other methods of payment without knowingly supporting an Anti-Gun corporation. In all seriousness, it only takes a couple few days to mail a U.S. Postal Money Order.
ETA: They may not have the market cornered if we stop using them though, right? Think of the millions of dollars they would lose and no longer have if just all the folks here stopped using them... And how is it any different than getting weapons manufacturers to stop selling to States & LEO's that have imposed these new draconian laws on law abiding citizens making them criminals with the stroke of a pen? Quoted:
Because they, unfortunately, have the market cornered on sending and receiving online money for purchases. Some people have a stale market (during non panic times) or don't live near people and it is easier and sometimes more profitable to sell their items on the internet vs waiting for someone local to decide they want to buy. It sucks. |
|
Quoted:
I understand your comment to a point. And whether you're selling online makes no difference in this regards to my question. Online sales are for sure many times easier and faster than waiting for a local buyer, but that has nothing to do with supporting Pay Pal. There are other methods of payment without knowingly supporting an Anti-Gun corporation. In all seriousness, it only takes a couple few days to mail a U.S. Postal Money Order. Quoted:
Because they, unfortunately, have the market cornered on sending and receiving online money for purchases. Some people have a stale market (during non panic times) or don't live near people and it is easier and sometimes more profitable to sell their items on the internet vs waiting for someone local to decide they want to buy. It sucks. People don't hold up their end of the deal. You get stuck waiting for an MO that doesn't show up. The instant money transfer at least lets you know the person is serious and you don't miss your sale. Or you send an MO to someone who in return doesn't send your goods you have a way to get your money back. (and I am not talking just firearms related transfers). Personally I prefer FtF transactions but, I also live in a rather populated area with a good number of firearms owners where it usually isn't hard to find a buyer. Plus, don't you think it's kind of funny for them to be accepting money for under the table firearms transfers? How may of these companies do you think are really going to hurt if firearms owners stop using them? I'm not sure I know of a NON pro-firearms company to date that has "changed" their policy because firearms owners have stopped using their services. I have heard of some companies that have reversed their policies due to firearms owners objections but, they were all firearms companies or firearms related events. Even with all of the crap CTD has gotten for their prices, did you see them drop any? And they ARE a firearms company. |
|
Not true, I have.
But they are guaranteed they also protect the buyer and the seller and make any fraud Federal. I have had this happen to me as well, the Post office got involved and I got my money back. This is not my question or my point... And so basically what i will get is that "it is easier, so it doesn't matter really where the money goes" - 
Just excuses... IMHO Quoted:
I'm guessing the OP never had a USPS MO get lost in the mail. |
|
Because USPS is slow, out of the way, and typically a pain in the ass to deal with. If I had a better option (if USPS online started offering a service similar to Paypal for instance) I'd use it.
Other than having a policy that they aren't to be used for gun sales, what exactly does Paypal as a company do to combat and erode the 2A? |
|
As a buyer, I use paypal since it's the easiest and fastest thing to use. Just login, type in an email address and amount, and money is on it's way. And it at lesat has a little security if the deal goes bad. Versus a money order mailing a check, which isn't that hard but involves a few added inconvenient steps such as going to the post office, buying checks, typeing out an envelope, etc.
As a seller, paypal allows me to have the largest audience of potential buyers, which allows me to get higher prices on the stuff I sell (even with the 4% fees). I do wish there was a similar mainstream alternative to paypal though. I'm surprised the credit card companys or western union haven't made an alternative yet. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I understand your comment to a point. And whether you're selling online makes no difference in this regards to my question. Online sales are for sure many times easier and faster than waiting for a local buyer, but that has nothing to do with supporting Pay Pal. There are other methods of payment without knowingly supporting an Anti-Gun corporation. In all seriousness, it only takes a couple few days to mail a U.S. Postal Money Order. Quoted:
Because they, unfortunately, have the market cornered on sending and receiving online money for purchases. Some people have a stale market (during non panic times) or don't live near people and it is easier and sometimes more profitable to sell their items on the internet vs waiting for someone local to decide they want to buy. It sucks. People don't hold up their end of the deal. You get stuck waiting for an MO that doesn't show up. The instant money transfer at least lets you know the person is serious and you don't miss your sale. Or you send an MO to someone who in return doesn't send your goods you have a way to get your money back. (and I am not talking just firearms related transfers). Personally I prefer FtF transactions but, I also live in a rather populated area with a good number of firearms owners where it usually isn't hard to find a buyer. Plus, don't you think it's kind of funny for them to be accepting money for under the table firearms transfers? How may of these companies do you think are really going to hurt if firearms owners stop using them? I'm not sure I know of a NON pro-firearms company to date that has "changed" their policy because firearms owners have stopped using their services. I have heard of some companies that have reversed their policies due to firearms owners objections but, they were all firearms companies or firearms related events. Even with all of the crap CTD has gotten for their prices, did you see them drop any? And they ARE a firearms company. I am not talking about these companies. I am talking about Pay Pal... Your comment is on point, but it is not what i meant. Strictly talking about Pay Pal. I brought up the fact that we have been on top of all the manufacturers that are supporting our cause to make a point, and not trying to boycott those who don't... sorry if i confused anyone with how i worded my post. It just seems that we are all fighting so hard, but this is one issue that i see go on and on and on.... And no one speaks of it. But we should because it is a huge amount of money that is being used against us |
|
Quoted:
I am really confused (and honestly a little upset) about this whole thing. So i am looking for an honest answer, because i know damn well that just about everyone here at ARF.com has known for many years now that Pay Pal is very anti-gun (and owned by eBay) spending millions funding the corruption of our 2nd Amendment rights as well as our RTKBA- using the very money that folks here seem to not care about anymore by using Pay Pal... as long as they get their ching for their sale. What happened to using our highly trusted and protected U.S. Postal Money Orders? We all know that this is one of Pay Pal's biggest agendas as it has been widely out in the open for years now. But what i do not understand, is in looking through all the for sale adds on the EE here for the last few years... and even more so over the last year... With all that is going on with new anti-gun bills changing the 2nd Amendment and eroding our rights, as well as the panic buying/selling, etc. And all of us fighting to keep our rights in our States, helping others in States gone rogue, mailing letters, getting Manufacturing Companies to stop selling to States imposing these new draconian laws and mainly fighting to not have these new anti-gun laws put in place. As well as the new laws that have been back doored on folks in CO were are trying to get repealed for example- Mainly because we all know that there are enough gun laws on the books & these new ones are only for Tyrannical purposes, if you will.... Enforcing the current laws instead of making criminals of us Law abiding folks is the good fight. And I thought we were all fighting the good fight as best we can. Why give in or better yet give your 4% and or what ever other fees to Pay Pal when there are other methods of payment that are almost as fast as using Pay Pal. Sometimes even faster in my experience... When I used to use Pay Pal for my surplus eBay store i wouldn't see the money into my checking account for almost a week having to do their little transfer process which was put in place to hold your money and make even more interest off it, on top of the fees they get - So my question is going to be pretty obvious at this point----> Why do the folks here that continue to use Pay Pal for their gun related transactions, accessories, etc (using the "gift" comment to hide it from Pay Pal) keep giving their money to Pay Pal? All while knowing full well that they are giving their money to the anti-gun organization called Pay Pal & knowing exactly what they are doing with that money.... I don't understand this at all. Why have so many ignored this? Especially while fighting the good fight. It doesn't make sense. M4-CQBR Is Paypal actually actively anti-gun, or is it they just don't do gun transactions. There is a difference. If they are out supporting anti-gun organizations, they are actively anti-gun. If they simply choose not to handle gun transactions, based upon liability concerns, that is more a decision driven by lawyers than political leaning. |
|
Did you know that the Guy from eBay is a BIG Obama Supporter. Joe Biden just said a couple of days ago that he would like to see a Hi-Cap Ban come into effect before an AWB. And Paypal is a Division of eBay.
Think about it. Not only is Pay Pal discriminatory, they are not honest. They had 125,000 account numbers, names etc,stolen in Western Europe and North America. They did not notify those who had their personal information stolen. I found out about it only after a person who bought an expensive Americase from me had his account frozen and I didn't get paid. Only then did Pay pal admit they had a security breach. So why would they come out and tell the public how and where they spend PAC money be it anti gun or not... I see a very big gray line and only wondered why we here who are all pro gun and pro 2nd Amendment, fighting our asses off to keep the rights we have would even risk giving one penny of our hard earned dollars to a company that is obviously anti gun... They have gone through and messed with enough people's accounts because of firearms, parts, accessories, ammo, etc. transactions freezing accounts, withholding money for months on end. There on lies the gray line does it not? In a recent survey, 9 out of ten people agreed that in any group of ten people, one will always disagree- 
|
|
Wal Mart has Wells Fargo money orders for .75. They also have a money transfer service, like Western Union, but much cheaper. I'd rather go to Wal Mart than the Post Office.
Yes, PayPal sucks but they are the big guy on the block and convenient as the day is long. I use them when it works for me to do so. |
|
I am not a big fan of it but if the difference between selling something or not I prefer selling it.
Even is we on ARFCOM would not use it PP is Global - People use is for e-bay and e-bay is pretty big. You can also use PP to pay for other things so it would be hard to boycott them to the point they would be out of business |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am really confused (and honestly a little upset) about this whole thing. So i am looking for an honest answer, because i know damn well that just about everyone here at ARF.com has known for many years now that Pay Pal is very anti-gun (and owned by eBay) spending millions funding the corruption of our 2nd Amendment rights as well as our RTKBA- using the very money that folks here seem to not care about anymore by using Pay Pal... as long as they get their ching for their sale. What happened to using our highly trusted and protected U.S. Postal Money Orders? We all know that this is one of Pay Pal's biggest agendas as it has been widely out in the open for years now. But what i do not understand, is in looking through all the for sale adds on the EE here for the last few years... and even more so over the last year... With all that is going on with new anti-gun bills changing the 2nd Amendment and eroding our rights, as well as the panic buying/selling, etc. And all of us fighting to keep our rights in our States, helping others in States gone rogue, mailing letters, getting Manufacturing Companies to stop selling to States imposing these new draconian laws and mainly fighting to not have these new anti-gun laws put in place. As well as the new laws that have been back doored on folks in CO were are trying to get repealed for example- Mainly because we all know that there are enough gun laws on the books & these new ones are only for Tyrannical purposes, if you will.... Enforcing the current laws instead of making criminals of us Law abiding folks is the good fight. And I thought we were all fighting the good fight as best we can. Why give in or better yet give your 4% and or what ever other fees to Pay Pal when there are other methods of payment that are almost as fast as using Pay Pal. Sometimes even faster in my experience... When I used to use Pay Pal for my surplus eBay store i wouldn't see the money into my checking account for almost a week having to do their little transfer process which was put in place to hold your money and make even more interest off it, on top of the fees they get - So my question is going to be pretty obvious at this point----> Why do the folks here that continue to use Pay Pal for their gun related transactions, accessories, etc (using the "gift" comment to hide it from Pay Pal) keep giving their money to Pay Pal? All while knowing full well that they are giving their money to the anti-gun organization called Pay Pal & knowing exactly what they are doing with that money.... I don't understand this at all. Why have so many ignored this? Especially while fighting the good fight. It doesn't make sense. M4-CQBR Is Paypal actually actively anti-gun, or is it they just don't do gun transactions. There is a difference. If they are out supporting anti-gun organizations, they are actively anti-gun. If they simply choose not to handle gun transactions, based upon liability concerns, that is more a decision driven by lawyers than political leaning. M4-CQBR, you are so very wrong. Very. Their reasoning is likely based on govt anti-money laundering, anti-organized crime/terrorism, and anti-illegal arms trade regulations rather than what they think about scary old guns. Financial liability is a bitch when you're found to be unknowingly facilitating that stuff. Easier to just stay away and keep as neutral as possible. Publicly traded companies tend not to piss off their shareholders over issues like this. Guess who those shareholders are... It's ok to not like a company but seriously your post needs a giant [ CITATION NEEDED]..... If you don't agree to their terms, then don't use them. Also, PayPal MasterCard Debit card FTW when purchasing gun stuff. Somebody point me to where the company, not an individual has actively supported the gun grabbers... |
|
Sure, in your opinion. If you can afford to be out $1200 on an ACOG for 60+ days while the slow ass USPS takes it sweet ass time to refund your money. Most of us hate PayPal as much as you do. Just like we hate paying taxes and TSA ball grabbing. Options are pretty fucking lean. Quoted: Not true, I have. But they are guaranteed they also protect the buyer and the seller and make any fraud Federal. I have had this happen to me as well, the Post office got involved and I got my money back. This is not my question or my point... And so basically what i will get is that "it is easier, so it doesn't matter really where the money goes" - Just excuses... IMHO Quoted: I'm guessing the OP never had a USPS MO get lost in the mail. |
|
Every time I use PayPal for a gun-related purchase or sale, I feel like I'm sneakily pulling one over on them. I purposely don't leave money in that account any longer than necessary in case I get caught one of these times. For purchases I can use my PayPal debit card and get 1.5% cash back every month.
Unfortunately there's no convenient alternative. I've had bad luck with postal money orders. Counterfeit ones, ones lost in the mail, ones that needed to be held 3 days before cashing. Plus waiting a week to get paid on something sucks. The post office is way across town and they're not open when I'm awake (I work 3rd shift). Every time I have to stand in that line at the post office with all those other grouchy customers, and wait for those lazy employees, I feel like choking myself. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I understand your comment to a point. And whether you're selling online makes no difference in this regards to my question. Online sales are for sure many times easier and faster than waiting for a local buyer, but that has nothing to do with supporting Pay Pal. There are other methods of payment without knowingly supporting an Anti-Gun corporation. In all seriousness, it only takes a couple few days to mail a U.S. Postal Money Order. Quoted:
Because they, unfortunately, have the market cornered on sending and receiving online money for purchases. Some people have a stale market (during non panic times) or don't live near people and it is easier and sometimes more profitable to sell their items on the internet vs waiting for someone local to decide they want to buy. It sucks. People don't hold up their end of the deal. You get stuck waiting for an MO that doesn't show up. The instant money transfer at least lets you know the person is serious and you don't miss your sale. Or you send an MO to someone who in return doesn't send your goods you have a way to get your money back. (and I am not talking just firearms related transfers). Personally I prefer FtF transactions but, I also live in a rather populated area with a good number of firearms owners where it usually isn't hard to find a buyer. Plus, don't you think it's kind of funny for them to be accepting money for under the table firearms transfers? How may of these companies do you think are really going to hurt if firearms owners stop using them? I'm not sure I know of a NON pro-firearms company to date that has "changed" their policy because firearms owners have stopped using their services. I have heard of some companies that have reversed their policies due to firearms owners objections but, they were all firearms companies or firearms related events. Even with all of the crap CTD has gotten for their prices, did you see them drop any? And they ARE a firearms company. I am not talking about these companies. I am talking about Pay Pal... Your comment is on point, but it is not what i meant. Strictly talking about Pay Pal. I brought up the fact that we have been on top of all the manufacturers that are supporting our cause to make a point, and not trying to boycott those who don't... sorry if i confused anyone with how i worded my post. It just seems that we are all fighting so hard, but this is one issue that i see go on and on and on.... And no one speaks of it. But we should because it is a huge amount of money that is being used against us No I understand your point completely. But look at it like this... How many Ebay sales are completed daily? What number of those completions are paid for via PayPal? Then all all of the Web-Store cart options that PayPal makes money from. Then all of the random "gift" transfers. How many people are registered to Arf? The Most Users Online Was 20,857 On 1/16/2013 10:00:06 PM EDT.
We have 345,441 registered members, 257,466 are active accounts. The last account created was Trickracen. Do you really think out of all those Ebay sales and Web store transaction they are going to miss then 350k people you MIGHT reach here on Arf.com? My point is, the only companies that give a shit what current firearms owners care about are other firearms companies. The rest of those nationwide companies, like Ebay and PayPal have a large enough customer base to not even notice a "wallet protest." In the mean time, the rest of us will profit using PayPal underneath their noses selling parts/supplies at a higher cost then what we paid for 'em due to the "panic" PayPal will take a small cut but, in the process of making a little money, they will actually be allowing firearms owners to make MORE then they would have trying to sell locally. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:.........everyone here at ARF.com has known for many years now that Pay Pal is very anti-gun (and owned by eBay) spending millions funding the corruption of our 2nd Amendment rights as well as our RTKBA...........
Proof?????? Empty claims because people can't read a user agreement and ended up getting burned. Do things according to their requirements and you get the protections they offer. |