Posted: 3/2/2013 5:40:19 PM EDT
|
Growing up, I learned all my fundamentals on open sights. I never had a scoped rifle available and red dots were not common at the time.
Now that I have the opportunity to teach some new shooters I have been reflecting a bit on the things I was taught and the manner in which I was taught them. I believe that the basics (aiming, breathing, trigger control, etc.) should carry over regardless of the method of aim but I do wonder if there are pros or cons to teaching new shooters on optics versus open sights. In theory, a red dot should be the easiest for a new shooter to pick up and get on target but does that cheat them out of some of the lessons that you learn on irons? |
|
Quoted:
Growing up, I learned all my fundamentals on open sights. I never had a scoped rifle available and red dots were not common at the time. Now that I have the opportunity to teach some new shooters I have been reflecting a bit on the things I was taught and the manner in which I was taught them. I believe that the basics (aiming, breathing, trigger control, etc.) should carry over regardless of the method of aim but I do wonder if there are pros or cons to teaching new shooters on optics versus open sights. In theory, a red dot should be the easiest for a new shooter to pick up and get on target but does that cheat them out of some of the lessons that you learn on irons? I don't believe that it does. Of the dozens of things you need to do correctly to shoot well, open iron sights vs. red dot only adds one more. (Line up the front and the rear sights.) And if the irons in question consist of a front post and a peep rear sight, there really are no fundamental differences. |
|
Any optic with lots of eye relief will definitely make the job of hitting the target easier. It would help the new shooter to focus just on a stable position (and the other basics) and not worry about sight alignment.
Personally I like starting them with peep sights on an AR or 10/22 w/tech sights. Unless bad vision is an issue I've never had a new shooter not be able to get it figured out real quick. If you've never done it look for an Appleseed in your area. They're a great place for a more experienced shooter to learn good teaching technique and polish up on your shooting at the same time or for newer shooters to really learn proper technique. |
|
I want to know more about this. Just WHAT am I looking at when shooting? What? The front post? Damn things blur up. I tried with my eyes open. One shut. Both eyes one at a time. I tried left and right handed. And today the same results. Sights blur or target. My younger brother whipped my but with MY gun and ammo. Sucks man. I can hit. But NOT tight groups with pistols and open sites at 25 feet. I shot my Glock and Rock Island Armory. And my Super Red Hawk. And Black Hawk today. And his GP 100 and still he beat me. I am tired of getting my can kicked.
Guess I am not the one for the zombie appocalypse unless my fat butt cannot run as fast as you can and I make better bait. What to do as I have corrected vision. The range master told me anticipating recoil ect. And also to find my "strong eye". which is relative when speaking about me. Both eyes corrected are okay. Not bad. But still. Why does it all go blurry with BOTH eyes open? My dad says learn to shoot that way. The range master says no. Go to one eye. What say ye? And hell nah yall cannot have my guns. I am not ready to give up yet. But one hunderd bucks of ammo later I am still not scoring that great. And that is just today. 
And 25 feet I know is not all that. HELP... |
|
The fundamentals of marksmanship should be focused on the rifle/handgun the shooter has, as that is what he or she will pick up when it matters.
If some 18 year old young man buys an ar15, puts a red dot on it, and asks me how to shoot it, I teach him with the red dot. Once he is proficient with it and buys magnified scoped rifles, iron sighted rifles, I teach them how to use those. Showing someone how to use irons when their firearm isn't equipped with them doesn't make sense and will not help them. |
|
I like to start off using a red dot, it helps newer shooters learn how the rifle needs to be positioned. After that i move to iron sights and how they should be aligned.
This method is used for teaching, now if i am just trying to get someone into shooting, then red dots and scopes all the way 
|
|
Quoted:
I want to know more about this. Just WHAT am I looking at when shooting? What? The front post? Damn things blur up. I tried with my eyes open. One shut. Both eyes one at a time. I tried left and right handed. And today the same results. Sights blur or target. My younger brother whipped my but with MY gun and ammo. Sucks man. I can hit. But NOT tight groups with pistols and open sites at 25 feet. I shot my Glock and Rock Island Armory. And my Super Red Hawk. And Black Hawk today. And his GP 100 and still he beat me. I am tired of getting my can kicked. Guess I am not the one for the zombie appocalypse unless my fat butt cannot run as fast as you can and I make better bait. What to do as I have corrected vision. The range master told me anticipating recoil ect. And also to find my "strong eye". which is relative when speaking about me. Both eyes corrected are okay. Not bad. But still. Why does it all go blurry with BOTH eyes open? My dad says learn to shoot that way. The range master says no. Go to one eye. What say ye? And hell nah yall cannot have my guns. I am not ready to give up yet. But one hunderd bucks of ammo later I am still not scoring that great. And that is just today.
And 25 feet I know is not all that. HELP... Focus on the front sight when you take aim. Acquire target. Identify target. Focus on front sight tip. Put front sight tip over known target. Yes target will be blurry. Doesn't matter. Squeeze trigger. Imagine the hammer falling on an empty chamber. focus on this. When the firearm goes off it should surprise you a little until you get used to not anticipating the recoil. One of the easiest way to prevent this anticipation is buy some snap caps and practice dry firing. Learn your trigger. There is so much to this and it's best taught in person. Find someone who knows what they are doing. That person should be able to put a group into a target at 25 yards that can be covered by the bottom of a 12 ounce coke can. If their group is bigger, they are doing it wrong. |
|
Quoted:
I want to know more about this. Just WHAT am I looking at when shooting? What? The front post? Damn things blur up. I tried with my eyes open. One shut. Both eyes one at a time. I tried left and right handed. And today the same results. Sights blur or target. My younger brother whipped my but with MY gun and ammo. Sucks man. I can hit. But NOT tight groups with pistols and open sites at 25 feet. I shot my Glock and Rock Island Armory. And my Super Red Hawk. And Black Hawk today. And his GP 100 and still he beat me. I am tired of getting my can kicked. Guess I am not the one for the zombie appocalypse unless my fat butt cannot run as fast as you can and I make better bait. What to do as I have corrected vision. The range master told me anticipating recoil ect. And also to find my "strong eye". which is relative when speaking about me. Both eyes corrected are okay. Not bad. But still. Why does it all go blurry with BOTH eyes open? My dad says learn to shoot that way. The range master says no. Go to one eye. What say ye? And hell nah yall cannot have my guns. I am not ready to give up yet. But one hunderd bucks of ammo later I am still not scoring that great. And that is just today.
And 25 feet I know is not all that. HELP... It sounds as though you are flinching, based on what the range officer told you. And probably doing a a few other things as well. And you're competing against your brother, instead of focusing on your shooting. Shoot alone next time, or better yet under a SKILLED Instructor, one on one training. Are you using GOOD ear protection? (That will help prevent flinching.) Determine which is your strong hand and which eye is your Master eye. Don't assume you know-find out for sure; there are tests you can do to determine that, or your eye Dr. will know. (Hopefully you're not cross-dominant. Not insurmountable, but it complicates things.) Start with a single-action .22 or even a good pellet pistol and MASTER it before you waste any more centerfire ammo. Do tons of dry-fire practice in your basement (with Snap Caps if you use a revolver). Focus on the front sight. Target and rear sight can blur slightly; front should be sharp. See Eye Doc if it isn't doable. That's all I got for now. Edited to add: previous poster also offers good suggestions I missed... |
|
Quoted:
I believe that the basics (aiming, breathing, trigger control, etc.) should carry over regardless of the method of aim but I do wonder if there are pros or cons to teaching new shooters on optics versus open sights. One fundamental that you won't be teaching with optics is sight alignment, which is a pretty critical skill for a handgun shooter. I won't say it is wrong or bad to teach someone to shoot with optics, and might even be the better way for some individuals.....but if they want to do much with handguns, they'll need to learn to use irons eventually. If you've got the time, teach them both. 
|
|
Quoted:
I want to know more about this. Just WHAT am I looking at when shooting? What? The front post? Damn things blur up. I tried with my eyes open. One shut. Both eyes one at a time. I tried left and right handed. And today the same results. Sights blur or target. My younger brother whipped my but with MY gun and ammo. Sucks man. I can hit. But NOT tight groups with pistols and open sites at 25 feet. I shot my Glock and Rock Island Armory. And my Super Red Hawk. And Black Hawk today. And his GP 100 and still he beat me. I am tired of getting my can kicked. Guess I am not the one for the zombie appocalypse unless my fat butt cannot run as fast as you can and I make better bait. What to do as I have corrected vision. The range master told me anticipating recoil ect. And also to find my "strong eye". which is relative when speaking about me. Both eyes corrected are okay. Not bad. But still. Why does it all go blurry with BOTH eyes open? My dad says learn to shoot that way. The range master says no. Go to one eye. What say ye? And hell nah yall cannot have my guns. I am not ready to give up yet. But one hunderd bucks of ammo later I am still not scoring that great. And that is just today.
And 25 feet I know is not all that. HELP... It takes time and practice to master all of this. Put a patch of masking tape or even opaque scotch tape over your non-aiming eye. That will allow you to keep both eyes open relaxing your face and reducing eye strain while eliminating the double vision front sight problem some shooters have with keeping both eyes open. Put a couple dummies or empties in the revolver along with live rounds and put a few dummies in a semi's mag so you occasionally get a dud. That will show you very clearly how badly you are anticipating recoil or jerking the trigger and allow you to self correct. This is called a Ball and Dummy Drill (ball ammo and dummy rounds). Try using a .22 semi-auto like a Ruger 22/45 too. Low recoil and noise and laser beam accurate make for a great trainer. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I believe that the basics (aiming, breathing, trigger control, etc.) should carry over regardless of the method of aim but I do wonder if there are pros or cons to teaching new shooters on optics versus open sights. One fundamental that you won't be teaching with optics is sight alignment, which is a pretty critical skill for a handgun shooter. I won't say it is wrong or bad to teach someone to shoot with optics, and might even be the better way for some individuals.....but if they want to do much with handguns, they'll need to learn to use irons eventually. If you've got the time, teach them both. That's probably the route I will go. Optics are generally pretty intuitive, irons somewhat less so. It seems the advantage to teaching irons first would be the ability to pick up any basic weapons system and have an idea how to put rounds on target. |