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and...

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We need the "That's nice honey" pic.  

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Well that clears everything up now... Thanks

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http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/grandma-cool-story-bro-240x180.jpg

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We need the "That's nice honey" pic.  

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Chamber loaded "boom"
Chamber empty = expensive hammer.

Why is this even debated?

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Chamber loaded "boom"
Chamber empty = expensive hammer.

Why is this even debated?

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Some truths in life don't require tests to determine their validity.

I believe the subject at hand falls into that category.

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bless his heart.

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Chamber loaded "boom"
Chamber empty = expensive hammer.

Why is this even debated?

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You mean it's faster to shoot with a round already in the chamber?

You don't say!



I wonder if a calculator is faster at math than the human brian

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Chamber loaded "boom"
Chamber empty = expensive hammer.

Why is this even debated?

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Chamber loaded "boom"
Chamber empty = expensive hammer.

Why is this even debated?

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You mean it's faster to shoot with a round already in the chamber?

You don't say!



I wonder if a calculator is faster at math than the human brian

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I carry with an empty chamber because I dont have any ammo to go shoot

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Many people are not comfortable with one in the pipe.

I'd rather there be more responsible people carrying without one in the pipe than people not carrying because they would be uncomfortable.

With those times in the study, it is easy to imagine that in many situations a gun without one in the chamber will still have the capability to be effective.

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Really, this debate again? Fine, Mr Mugger grabs your arm. Mr Empty Chamber is now dead. Mr Mugger has a gun, Mr Empty Chamber pulls his pistol. Before the .84 seconds it takes to get the pistol ready to fight can pass, Mr Empty Chamber gets shot in the face. If you don't feel safe with one in the pipe, your training lacks enough that you should probably leave the gun at home.

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In case anyone is interested in some real numbers.

Chamber Empty VS. Chamber Loaded      
             
On February 16 and 17th 2013 the Texas Tactical shooters set out to gather data      
on the efficiency of carrying a gun with an empty chamber vs. carrying a handgun with a loaded chamber.    
             
104 shooters shot 4 strings of fire.            
             
The Course of Fire consisted of 4 Targets at 3 yards. The strings of fire were as follows:      
             
String 1. Starting with magazine inserted and an empty chamber and handgun in holster,      
at the signal chamber a round and engage Target 1 with a Mozambiquee drill.      
             
String 2. Starting with magazine inserted and loaded chamber and handgun in holster, at      
the signal engage Target 2 with a Mozambiquee drill.      
             
String 3. Starting with magazine inserted and an empty chamber and handgun in holster,      
at the signal chamber a round using strong hand only and engage Target 3 with a      
>Mozambiquee drill, firing strong hand only. Shooters were instructed that they could use      
any safe technique to chamber the round strong hand only. This included using the belt,      
holster, pant seam, etc. or even the Bianchi barricade that was conveniently placed in front      
of them within arms reach.      
             
String 4. Starting with magazine inserted and loaded chamber and handgun in holster, at      
the signal engage Target 4 with a Mozambiquee drill using strong hand only.      
             
Special Thanks to all the Texas Tactical shooters who helped to gather this data. Thank you to Ryan and      
Jennifer for your work in compiling the data.    

Here are the results:

http://www.texastactical.net/results/files/ChamberEmpty.htm

Average Difference on strings 1 and 2 using all data between Chamber Empty Vs Chamber Loaded:    
  Chamber loaded was faster by 0.77          
             
Average Difference on string 1 and 2 after removing extreme high and low between Chamber Empty Vs Chamber Loaded:    
  Chamber loaded was faster by 0.84        
             
Average Difference using all data for strings 3 and 4 between Strong Hand Only Chamber Empty Vs Strong Hand Only Chamber Loaded:  
  Chamber loaded was faster by  2.09        
             
Average Difference on strings 3 and 4 after removing extreme high and low between Strong Hand Only Chamber Empty Vs Strong Hand Only Chamber Loaded:
Chamber loaded was faster  3.22          
   

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Some people don't know enough to use  a descent holster and it s unsafe to carry one in the chamber.. Plus they think training is standing behind the table plinking paper.

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Many people are not comfortable with one in the pipe.

I'd rather there be more responsible people carrying without one in the pipe than people not carrying because they would be uncomfortable.

With those times in the study, it is easy to imagine that in many situations a gun without one in the chamber will still have the capability to be effective.

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Anyone who carries empty chamber would be far better off not carrying at all.


If you're not confident enough to carry in the pipe, you're not confident enough to carry. End of discussion.

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This. And to the elite blowhards saying "don't even bother", carrying w/o chambered seems like a personal decision that demonstrates a great deal of respect for carrying, while having no effect on you, at all.  

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Derp. I'm not debating it. I didn't say it was better.

I simply said there are many situations where there is time to rack the slide, and then the gun becomes effective. That not even considering the fact that many criminals run at the first sight of armed resistance.

Adequate training should not be a prerequisite to carry.

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...and yet there are still people out there that carry with an empty chamber.

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You didn't say it was better, but you did defend the practice. My point was that if you are hoping for a best case scenario, ie mugger runs at the sight of a gun, why even carry a mag? It just seems stupid to go to the trouble of a CCW and then fail to maximize the benefits. Carrying with an empty chamber opens you up to more situations where your firearm would be useless or nearly so. That is a fact. I try to advise people to seek training from guys that know much more than I, I never said it should be required. It is prudent. Also, I wasn't talking to YOU specifically. I was using you as a general term, chill out.

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You would think that this shouldn't be very hard to figure out but then I hear people talk about carrying without a round chambered fairly regularly.

 

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On the range is all well and good, but it does not take into

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This cannot be stated strongly enough.
I'm a paramedic preceptor. I take students who have mastered skills in a classroom environment and teach them to apply those same skills under 'real life' stress.  Like anyone with experience applying skill sets under extreme stress, I can tell you that the idea of timing strings of fire at a range with the belief that the results have anything at all to do with real life performance is ludicrous.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

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If that means more responsible people carrying, then hell yes I defend the practice.

It's not ideal, but it is better than not carrying. Arguing otherwise is silly.

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What this plinking that you speak of.  You mean to tell me that people actually have ammo to just go shoot at paper?????????

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Many people are not comfortable with one in the pipe.

I'd rather there be more responsible people carrying without one in the pipe than people not carrying because they would be uncomfortable.

With those times in the study, it is easy to imagine that in many situations a gun without one in the chamber will still have the capability to be effective.